CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #38 *ARREST*

[CDB]

I believe the employee of Doss who actually received that text was more likely in the Colorado Springs office, in Quality Control.
L3 seems to have a very smooth vertical chain of command. I'm guessing that when the WPPD contacted Doss at Pueblo, they got a "We'll get back to you soon!" followed by it going up the chain through QC and contract management in the Springs to the home office back east, and back down again to someone in Pueblo calling WPPD back with the info they had asked for.


IMO

Snipped for brevity:

I agree with this, with one distinction. I believe any response would have been through HR or the Public Information officer, not QC.

 

[GHgal]

I am not sure who was inquiring about Kelsey's vehicles being searched. I watched a video, shot a few weeks ago with the use of a drone, which showed two empty parking spots on her side of the townhome. I am thinking both vehicles are in LE custody, unless they are will Kelsey's family.

 

[InvSmith]

So what do you all see happening to PF and his "sidekick phone exterminator" if LE is able to locate the body before the next court date?

I think we would know more about the manner of death but probably not a lot more. There might be some trace evidence and other helpful evidence but frankly a lot may be compromised. I would hope it allows questions for the family to be answered more than anything.

 

[ajaylee]

Looking back, it seems there was a particular point where the investigation suddenly got very real.

KB was reported missing, LE is starting to look around, they've checked out her house, PF won't talk.

Then suddenly they're back at KB's house for a second search, bringing in a ladder, taking out what looks like a piece of sheetrock (?), etc. IIRC, it was about this time that the Sheriff/local LE made an announcement to the effect that they were pretty sure KB was dead.

Something came up between the first search and the second all-out search. I have the impression that the first search was 'routine'. When they went in for the second search, they were sure they were examining the scene of a murder.

 

[NoeticSoul]

Looking back, it seems there was a particular point where the investigation suddenly got very real.

KB was reported missing, LE is starting to look around, they've checked out her house, PF won't talk.

Then suddenly they're back at KB's house for a second search, bringing in a ladder, taking out what looks like a piece of sheetrock (?), etc. IIRC, it was about this time that the Sheriff/local LE made an announcement to the effect that they were pretty sure KB was dead.

Something came up between the first search and the second all-out search. I have the impression that the first search was 'routine'. When they went in for the second search, they were sure they were examining the scene of a murder.

My worry is also that KB's brother was rummaging, unwittingly of course, all over the crime scene before LE got there.

eta It must have been a good clean up since he didn't notice anything suspect.

 

[InvSmith]

Looking back, it seems there was a particular point where the investigation suddenly got very real.

KB was reported missing, LE is starting to look around, they've checked out her house, PF won't talk.

Then suddenly they're back at KB's house for a second search, bringing in a ladder, taking out what looks like a piece of sheetrock (?), etc. IIRC, it was about this time that the Sheriff/local LE made an announcement to the effect that they were pretty sure KB was dead.

Something came up between the first search and the second all-out search. I have the impression that the first search was 'routine'. When they went in for the second search, they were sure they were examining the scene of a murder.

I think we have assumed due to luminol testing done at night which fit with the best testing method.

 

[InvSmith]

In Colorado the surname that the informant, usually the mother, states is what goes on the birth certificate. She could name any person of her choosing as the father, or could choose to have "Not Stated" instead.
The moment that PF assumed any fatherly duties, or even bragged to someone about being a father, he became the father. To wriggle out of it would take a successful lawsuit; including a DNA test showing he had made a mistake, and was not the biological father.
IMO

I would think KB and family chose the Berreth name to avoid confusion of implied rights unless he did take the matter to court. Many unwed mothers do exactly this.

 

[InvSmith]

Thank you for saying this. I have been thinking the same thing. I hope they tested both her own vehicles.

Do we actually know this? That PF is not listed as the father on the birth certificate? I did not think we had heard anything whatsoever about this, but some folks were confusing "baby being given mom's last name" with "PF not listed as father".

Many threads ago this came up. The child's last name is Berreth. The scenario is KB gave the child her last name and registered the birth certificate as Berreth. We don't know if the father was listed but we do know his last name was not given to the child and would not be since the mother is not legally bound to the father in marriage.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

Just reading an article that reminded me of a detail I'd forgotten about.

KK will not be sentenced until AFTER PF's trial.

That prolongs her pain, waiting and not knowing what her sentence will be, possibly for months if PF's trial goes that long. That's part of her deserved punishment.

However, it's also a very powerful motivation not to hold back when she testifies against PF. If she holds back in his trial, it will be held against her at her own sentencing.

MOO - Of course the judge has the final say over the sentence, but chances are there is a sentencing recommendation that has already been agreed upon by her attorney and the prosecution and it would be very unusual for the judge to go against that recommendation.

 

[ajaylee]

MOO - Of course the judge has the final say over the sentence, but chances are there is a sentencing recommendation that has already been agreed upon by her attorney and the prosecution and it would be very unusual for the judge to go against that recommendation.

True, but if KK doesn't live up to the terms of the agreement, the judge is no longer bound by the terms either. If she was sentenced before PF went to trial, she wouldn't have a strong motive for coming clean about her own involvement or PF's.

In another high-profile case, a DC judge just ruled that a plea deal is null and void because the defendant, Paul Manafort, didn't do his part. The deal called for him to be truthful and forthcoming in return for a recommendation for a reduced sentence. The judge agrees, he lied, he broke the agreement, and there will be no reduced sentence.

 

[Dave F.]

I would think KB and family chose the Berreth name to avoid confusion of implied rights unless he did take the matter to court. Many unwed mothers do exactly this.

The lawyers can weigh in on it, but I don't think there is any confusion about that in Colorado law. Child custody law is one thing the state gets very right. If an individual wants to play mind games in paternity, my recommendation would be to move to another state. Any state. There are 49 of them that offer more leeway than Colorado, plus a couple of territories.
Unless KB shared her reasoning with her mother, brother or BFF in Grand Junction when pregnant; we'll never know.
IMO

 

[Dave F.]

Also, in Colorado marriage has nothing to do with paternity or paternal responsibility. It never has, since 1876. IMO

 

[Thespyma]

Ok, I would not have driven 800 miles, I would have tried to save KB's life at all costs.
In the event I wasn't thinking clearly and believing his veiled threats, the min I drove off, it would get REAL!
"Out of fear."
PUH-LEEZE!

Yeah I'd "dump it" at the nearest police station and give them his name, then tell them to figure it out.

Exactly! So would I!

 

[Dave F.]

My worry is also that KB's brother was rummaging, unwittingly of course, all over the crime scene before LE got there.

eta It must have been a good clean up since he didn't notice anything suspect.

If you go back and reread the various articles, it becomes obvious that someone from the WPPD walked through on Dec. 3rd, when they did they initial welfare check. Most likely, someone else let them in. Next came CB and CB2, followed by the WPPD again on around the 8th, if I remember correctly. That's a minimum of five sets of foot tracks through a small. complex crime scene, by my count. I'm sure the defense team has carefully noted all of this, and has already begun preparing questions for trial. IMO

 

[Dave F.]

Snipped for brevity:

I agree with this, with one distinction. I believe any response would have been through HR or the Public Information officer, not QC.

HR for L3 is a home office unit, for all contracts that I can see. That would be typical in large government contracting. Since the WPPD kept us completely in the dark about who their contact was in Pueblo, I'm guessing it was nobody in PR. Those folks love to see their name in the papers.
If it was one of those two, either one would have a desk in Colorado Springs, not Pueblo. IMO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I'm not the poster you asked, but I did find this:
..."When cops searched her home, her car and purse were still there, as were some cold cinnamon rolls.
Frazee also received a text from his fiancee’s phone Nov. 25, De Young said. Berreth’s phone last pinged on Nov. 25 in Idaho, where her mother lives."

https://nypost.com/2018/12/10/text-sent-from-missing-moms-phone-days-after-she-vanished/

This is the only place I remember seeing that her purse was found at her home. I'm wary of NY Post -- does anyone recall seeing this claim from anywhere reputable?

I think she was killed on Thanksgiving because the cinnamon rolls were still on the stove. Then again. we don't know when she baked those, do we? Could have been on Friday.

I'd like to know when anyone first tried to call Kelsey, after her two calls with her mom, on Thanksgiving. Knowing the time of the first unanswered & unreturned call would narrow down when she was killed.

I have found myself wondering whether the rolls were possibly baked the day before (Wednesday). Unless KB told her mom she had just made them that morning? Baby wouldn't eat a whole roll, and so there being two missing (as we've heard, but with no certainty that I recall) might just as likely lead to Wednesday, with KB eating one Weds am and one Thurs am, as Thursday with the idea she ate two that morning, or shared them with anyone else.

I really like your second idea about pinpointing when she stopped answering/returning calls/texts.

Many threads ago this came up. The child's last name is Berreth. The scenario is KB gave the child her last name and registered the birth certificate as Berreth. We don't know if the father was listed but we do know his last name was not given to the child and would not be since the mother is not legally bound to the father in marriage.

Yes, this was my point. I was distinguishing this from the conflated conversation about whether PF was listed as the father on the birth certificate. Which you said he was not, and I said I hadn't heard that from any MSM. If you are claiming that PF isn't listed on the BC can you please provide a link?

ETA: side note: their not being married would not have prevented KB from giving the baby PF's last name had she wanted to do so.

 

[tmar]

True, but if KK doesn't live up to the terms of the agreement, the judge is no longer bound by the terms either. If she was sentenced before PF went to trial, she wouldn't have a strong motive for coming clean about her own involvement or PF's.

In another high-profile case, a DC judge just ruled that a plea deal is null and void because the defendant, Paul Manafort, didn't do his part. The deal called for him to be truthful and forthcoming in return for a recommendation for a reduced sentence. The judge agrees, he lied, he broke the agreement, and there will be no reduced sentence.

Reading this, gives me hope, that KK will not be truthful.
Hope she hides facts, that show her up, due to PF's Defence antics.
I hope loads of stuttering, and 'can't remember' on KK's part.
The Judge then, may 'stop her deal'.

She is already implicated, but we don't know to what extent.
Of coarse, she may put on a great 'false act', that I hope will be to her downfall.
So besides, the stress of waiting for the trial, her participation, I hope, this woman, 'falls on her face'.
We have a long time to wait.
MOO.

 

[NoeticSoul]

snipped for brevity

Baby wouldn't eat a whole roll, and so there being two missing (as we've heard, but with no certainty that I recall)

Oh my! I don't remember reading that two cinnamon rolls were missing? Do we have a link for that? I missed it.

 

[NoeticSoul]

If you go back and reread the various articles, it becomes obvious that someone from the WPPD walked through on Dec. 3rd, when they did they initial welfare check. Most likely, someone else let them in. Next came CB and CB2, followed by the WPPD again on around the 8th, if I remember correctly. That's a minimum of five sets of foot tracks through a small. complex crime scene, by my count. I'm sure the defense team has carefully noted all of this, and has already begun preparing questions for trial. IMO

Yikes, that's allot more than I remember before the final re-search :/

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Oh my! I don't remember reading that two cinnamon rolls were missing? Do we have a link for that? I missed it.

No, I don't think we have that specific knowledge. I think the media reports said "some were remaining" or to that effect. Implying at least one was gone. Some folks speculated there were two missing based on KB and K each having one for breakfast. I was just realizing that didn't really require that they were made Thurs, in fact the scene makes a bit more sense if they were baked earlier. But we really don't know how many were eaten and how many were left, other than that a partial pan remained. Sorry for making it sound specifically certain.