CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #38 *ARREST*

[Dave F.]

A bit lost here. So the media will not have access to the documents, that was denied. BUT.. in the court room on Feb 19th people who are in that court room can just walk out and tell us what they said. I listened to the press conference and the DA said specifically the evidence will be presented on that date. So, we will have info, right? We just won’t have it recorded video or audio. Am I correct in this assumption?

The judge can close the courtroom to the public, but there is a problem in the design of that building that makes it difficult on a busy court day. Since Monday is a holiday, Tuesday morning hould be quite busy.
Note also that the denial of release of documents is only until the judge hears oral arguments immediately following Tuesday's hearing. He could decide to release them at that time.
IMO

 

[Hatfield]

I think the text to Doss was sent from Kelsey's phone - especially as it was sent during the time frame that KK admits to "moving" it. Whether was one really sent to PF remains to be verified.

If KK sent a text, to PF, from Kelsey's phone, and it said something like "I'm going to see my grandmother in Soap Lake" - you know, as part of their narrative - oh, man. Unless there is absolute proof that PF was the one who committed the murder, that could establish reasonable doubt if the defense tries to lay it on KK claiming PF was set up.

I decided to put my defense hat on for just a brief fleeting moment (lol) and if I was PF's lawyer and based on what we know right now, it sure looks like PF could sure try to turn the tables on KK.

My discussion with PF would go something like this:

Lawyer: "So you are telling me KK took KB's phone and drove to near her home in Idaho and got rid of it there?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "So you are telling me KK texted KB's work on KB's phone and gave a fake excuse why KB was not showing up for work?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "So you are telling me that KK even texted you from KB's phone and gave you a fake excuse that KB was going away for awhile?"

PF: Yes

Laywer: "So you are telling me that KK is claiming you solicited her 3 different times to kill KB but KK is the only one saying that happened, and the only discussions you ever had with KK about KB were done verbally?"

PF: Yes

Laywer "So you are telling me that the day LE went to KB's house before your arrest and they knew exactly where to look for cleaned up blood evidence was because KK told LE where to go look?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "And you are telling me that the day you went to the dump with the 2 other men you never even got out of the car and they only dumped regular trash?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "And you are telling me that KK has had an obsessive thing for you since high school?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "Ok....just stay here and sit tight (like he can go anywhere anyway-LOL) and keep doing what you are doing by staying quiet and I will take care of this."

 

[steeltowngirl]

I hope they checked KB's vehicles, too. He had her purse and keys. The only report of him was when the neighbor spotted his truck on Thanksgiving. He could have put KB's body in her car or truck and disposed of it later. That would greatly reduce the chances of evidence in his own truck.

PF had her purse and keys? They are not missing?

 

[MyBelle]

I agree that Kelsey did want to move but without a parenting agreement, either approved or issued by the courts, she was prohibited to permanently leave CO with the baby. Makes me so sad to think she was forced to stay in Colorado, away from her family and support system, knowing PF has been abusive towards her in the past.

Along with an agreement to leave the state, I am fairly certain the courts would establish would a formal parenting plan/schedule with child support. This would require Patrick’s finances to be scrutinized, and most likely end PF paying child support to KB.

I can imagine PF ruminating over the idea of losing control over Kelsey and the baby, financial scrutiny and child support. For a man who seems to already be prone to anger easily, the combination of these things could infuriate him.

Where do you get the idea that KB wanted to move out of state? Kelsey willingly lived there without her support system nearby and I think it was because she loved her job. I also think she wanted her baby to have a relationship with PF.

JMO

 

[Dave F.]

The first press conference indicated that the text to Doss was sent from Kelsey’s phone on Nov 25th stating she would not be in to work that week.

City of Woodland Park

I listened carefully to it again, and what he said was" We were told by Doss that they received a text from (KB's) phone."
I don't know why Doss would have done anything but assume it was from her phone at that point, but any cell phone can be programmed to display a different number in the caller id. The actual call can be traced to location it was sent from, but it requires a search warrant and can take up to three weeks. It had been only fifteen full days from the call date, when Chief De Young stated that.
IMO

 

[Trudie]

I decided to put my defense hat on for just a brief fleeting moment (lol) and if I was PF's lawyer and based on what we know right now, it sure looks like PF could sure try to turn the tables on KK.

My discussion with PF would go something like this:

Lawyer: "So you are telling me KK took KB's phone and drove to near her home in Idaho and got rid of it there?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "So you are telling me KK texted KB's work on KB's phone and gave a fake excuse why KB was not showing up for work?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "So you are telling me that KK even texted you from KB's phone and gave you a fake excuse that KB was going away for awhile?"

PF: Yes

Laywer: "So you are telling me that KK is claiming you solicited her 3 different times to kill KB but KK is the only one saying that happened, and the only discussions you ever had with KK about KB were done verbally?"

PF: Yes

Laywer "So you are telling me that the day LE went to KB's house before your arrest and they knew exactly where to look for cleaned up blood evidence was because KK told LE where to go look?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "And you are telling me that the day you went to the dump with the 2 other men you never even got out of the car and they only dumped regular trash?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "And you are telling me that KK has had an obsessive thing for you since high school?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "Ok....just stay here and sit tight (like he can go anywhere anyway-LOL) and keep doing what you are doing by staying quiet and I will take care of this."

Imagine if P went to LE first. KKL might be sitting in jail instead of him.

 

[InvSmith]

You nailed it!

That is exactly and literally what the R's said. This is what caused KB's brother to let lose all sorts of f-words in the press the next day. He got it. They could have reported the information before the death.

 

[susiQ]

were we told that M no longer works for the Rs? if so, maybe she does the interviews because they are a job.

I'm not aware that M doesn't work for them anymore. Has MSM reported that?

I have to clarify something. Although I feel she's been used and abused by KK, I by NO means absolve her of not doing something to protect KB. I'd be really interested in knowing exactly when KK first told her that PF solicited her. After begging KK not to go to CO, why didn't she BEG the R's to help her figure out a way to stop this from happening? If, as the R's said she was "visibly upset" surely if she had shown up at the local police station that way they would have taken notice. At least she could have tried, even if it had fallen on deaf ears. It would have given KB a chance. None of them did anything

 

[MemPat]

I decided to put my defense hat on for just a brief fleeting moment (lol) and if I was PF's lawyer and based on what we know right now, it sure looks like PF could sure try to turn the tables on KK.

My discussion with PF would go something like this:

Lawyer: "So you are telling me KK took KB's phone and drove to near her home in Idaho and got rid of it there?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "So you are telling me KK texted KB's work on KB's phone and gave a fake excuse why KB was not showing up for work?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "So you are telling me that KK even texted you from KB's phone and gave you a fake excuse that KB was going away for awhile?"

PF: Yes

Laywer: "So you are telling me that KK is claiming you solicited her 3 different times to kill KB but KK is the only one saying that happened, and the only discussions you ever had with KK about KB were done verbally?"

PF: Yes

Laywer "So you are telling me that the day LE went to KB's house before your arrest and they knew exactly where to look for cleaned up blood evidence was because KK told LE where to go look?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "And you are telling me that the day you went to the dump with the 2 other men you never even got out of the car and they only dumped regular trash?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "And you are telling me that KK has had an obsessive thing for you since high school?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "Ok....just stay here and sit tight (like he can go anywhere anyway-LOL) and keep doing what you are doing by staying quiet and I will take care of this."

Nah, if it was this easy PF and KK would be square-dancin' at the ranch while Mama babysits. There's so much we don't know.

 

[PommyMommy]

Just my thought here. KB returned from Safeway was making Cinnamon Rolls for the nice neighbor who gave her a baby gate the week or so before. She decides to deliver the rolls then her and baby K go visit family. She let PF know they would be gone for a few days and that's when he snapped and came to KB's home.

KB made the cinnamon rolls for breakfast so, presumably before the trip to Safeway at noon. She didn't deliver the rolls anywhere because they were found on her stovetop when the home was searched.
Colorado mom missing since Thanksgiving

 

[Dave F.]

KB made the cinnamon rolls for breakfast so, presumably before the trip to Safeway at noon. She didn't deliver the rolls anywhere because they were found on her stovetop when the home was searched.
Colorado mom missing since Thanksgiving

.......and the nice lady who gave her the baby gate was gone, visitng friends for Thanksgiving. IMO

 

[lindaromas]

Ok I’m just gonna quit assuming anything. Carry on.....

 

[MassGuy]

I decided to put my defense hat on for just a brief fleeting moment (lol) and if I was PF's lawyer and based on what we know right now, it sure looks like PF could sure try to turn the tables on KK.

My discussion with PF would go something like this:

Lawyer: "So you are telling me KK took KB's phone and drove to near her home in Idaho and got rid of it there?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "So you are telling me KK texted KB's work on KB's phone and gave a fake excuse why KB was not showing up for work?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "So you are telling me that KK even texted you from KB's phone and gave you a fake excuse that KB was going away for awhile?"

PF: Yes

Laywer: "So you are telling me that KK is claiming you solicited her 3 different times to kill KB but KK is the only one saying that happened, and the only discussions you ever had with KK about KB were done verbally?"

PF: Yes

Laywer "So you are telling me that the day LE went to KB's house before your arrest and they knew exactly where to look for cleaned up blood evidence was because KK told LE where to go look?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "And you are telling me that the day you went to the dump with the 2 other men you never even got out of the car and they only dumped regular trash?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "And you are telling me that KK has had an obsessive thing for you since high school?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "Ok....just stay here and sit tight (like he can go anywhere anyway-LOL) and keep doing what you are doing by staying quiet and I will take care of this."

Here’s the problem. If the prosecution can prove that KK was nowhere near Colorado on the date of the murder, then it is a moot point.

She can’t commit a murder if she isn’t even in the state.

I think she arrived after the fact, perhaps as late as the 24th.

If she was in Colorado around the time of the murder, then they may have something.

That’s if there is no other evidence connecting him to this plot, which I absolutely do not believe.

 

[susiQ]

I decided to put my defense hat on for just a brief fleeting moment (lol) and if I was PF's lawyer and based on what we know right now, it sure looks like PF could sure try to turn the tables on KK.

My discussion with PF would go something like this:

Lawyer: "So you are telling me KK took KB's phone and drove to near her home in Idaho and got rid of it there?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "So you are telling me KK texted KB's work on KB's phone and gave a fake excuse why KB was not showing up for work?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "So you are telling me that KK even texted you from KB's phone and gave you a fake excuse that KB was going away for awhile?"

PF: Yes

Laywer: "So you are telling me that KK is claiming you solicited her 3 different times to kill KB but KK is the only one saying that happened, and the only discussions you ever had with KK about KB were done verbally?"

PF: Yes

Laywer "So you are telling me that the day LE went to KB's house before your arrest and they knew exactly where to look for cleaned up blood evidence was because KK told LE where to go look?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "And you are telling me that the day you went to the dump with the 2 other men you never even got out of the car and they only dumped regular trash?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "And you are telling me that KK has had an obsessive thing for you since high school?"

PF: Yes

Lawyer: "Ok....just stay here and sit tight (like he can go anywhere anyway-LOL) and keep doing what you are doing by staying quiet and I will take care of this."

I'm so disappointed we won't have any new facts to chew on until after the preliminary hearing. Let's hope it doesn't remain sealed or we'll be on this merry-go-round for a loooong time

Nevertheless, I take some comfort every time I think about the prosecution questioning KK and her ratting out PF. And then, I get an even more satisfaction when I imagine PF's defence attorney tearing her testimony apart. It's going to be quite a show!

 

[Oregon]

I agree, I was saying that I think MS had heard about PF soliciting KK to commit murder long before Nov. 26. I just don't think she discussed what she knew with the R's until KK told her that she had KB's cellphone. At that point she talked to her employers (the R's). She may have been trying to find out whether she had any culpability for not coming forward. Regardless of what they say, I find it hard to believe that the R's would wait more than a day or 2, before contacting LE.

I think the stories PF and KKL were telling were still evolving in the early days after KB’s death. At one time it was, she left because they broke up on Thanksgiving Day. She was going to see sick Grandmother. She was a on drugs and irratic. She left often with out notice and was gone for days. Every story, except the truth.

IMO KKL couldn’t control her urge to tell all. MS probably couldn’t wait to hear the details...after all she did beg KKL not to go. The two probably had an all night gab session. MS probably felt a little bit sick to her stomach when she realized that she had been pulled into the mess through her talking with KKL and her precious knowledge of what was being planned.

MS in turn, probably unloaded the information on the R’s. In retelling the story, a few more self and or KKL preserving modifications to the story are made. I am surprised that the R’s did not take copious notes or a recording as good lawyers do. I am surprised that their story seemed to be so convoluted. The R’s then give another self preserving version to the press. A version that aleviates their failure to report to LE.

So now we have the truth, KKL’s modified version, followed by MS’s modification, then R’s modification, and the presses modification. When people do not tell the whole truth, and realize they made a mistake, they backtrack to try to fix it. I think they were were all “fixing.” The truth still exisits, and through the grace of God and our judicial system it will be told.

 

[InvSmith]

If it's true that the baby doesn't have PF's last name (any reasons why not?), then he probably wasn't present at birth.

KB did not list him as the father's last name on the certificate of live birth meaning she has legal control over the child. She also may not have listed him as the father since not married. This means he would have to have paternity testing performed and file for rights. Since there was no marriage there may have been limitations.

 

[susiQ]

Here’s the problem. If the prosecution can prove that KK was nowhere near Colorado on the date of the murder, then it is a moot point.

She can’t commit a murder if she isn’t even in the state.

I think she arrived after the fact, perhaps as late as the 24th.

If she was in Colorado around the time of the murder, then they may have something.

That’s if there is no other evidence connecting him to this plot, which I absolutely do not believe.

I think most of us agree, PF is going down, down down, BIGTIME. It's just going to be fun watching him take KK down with him

 

[Artis]

IMO it wouldn't make sense for KK to tell MS on Nov 26 that Kelsey was missing. That was one day after the text were sent to make it look like she was away voluntarily. If KK told MS about her involvement, then it wouldn't make sense for MS to tell other people anything about it. All they had to do is wait. It is more likely that the Rs were notified on Dec 3, when there was probably aready a FB page set-up and the police made an appeal for information.

They are BFF's. KK was filling M in on PF asking KK to murder Kelsey. IOW, she was confiding hair raising information about a man she was romantically involved with. As soon as KK leaves Colorado and/or gets home to Idaho, she's talking to M. M is waiting with bated breath to get all of the details of the trip. After all, she begged KK not to go, right? Tell me she's not going to be dying to get the scoop. HIGH DRAMA with Kelsey right in the middle of it. M is going to ask about Kelsey and KK has to tell her something. KK knows Kelsey is dead so she gives M the limited hangout - Kelsey, the pilot, is missing - hoping that she, KK, is never connected to it and maybe PF isn't either. KK thinks Kelsey will never be found so it will remain a mystery and, at worst, M will think PF did something to her.

Since M told the Rs that "that girl" was missing, once M found out that KB knew all along that Kelsey was dead and KK took her phone, M now knows KK lied to her about the missing story and KK was all up in it and M still goes out there and shills for her diabolical friend. That is one devoted flying monkey sycophant, right there.

 

[Seattle1]

A bit lost here. So the media will not have access to the documents, that was denied. BUT.. in the court room on Feb 19th people who are in that court room can just walk out and tell us what they said. I listened to the press conference and the DA said specifically the evidence will be presented on that date. So, we will have info, right? We just won’t have it recorded video or audio. Am I correct in this assumption?

Yes, it is true that public and media can attend the hearing, and afterwards report to us the details.

However, it's not the same as having access to the documents because some of the content of the documents may be marked and submitted as "exhibits," without discussion, and not in the view of the public and/or reporters.

We want the documents!!

 

[GordianKnot]

Here’s the problem. If the prosecution can prove that KK was nowhere near Colorado on the date of the murder, then it is a moot point.

She can’t commit a murder if she isn’t even in the state.

I think she arrived after the fact, perhaps as late as the 24th.

If she was in Colorado around the time of the murder, then they may have something.

That’s if there is no other evidence connecting him to this plot, which I absolutely do not believe.

Great post.

There's no way the DA doesn't have evidence placing PF squarely in the frame for KB's murder.

However, it will really help reinforce that PF is the sole perpetrator of KB's murder if KK was in ID on the 22nd.

I do think PF's defense team is going to do their best to put KK In the frame, and as we all know, she's someone the jury is going to love to hate, but PF is not what you'd call an endearing figure himself.

Either way, the DA has PF bang to rights, IMO.