CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #38 *ARREST*

[amm]

I can't see how anyone who had just committed a murder would be stupid enough to dump evidence in plain sight, knowing their every move is being watched.

I completely agree that it is stupid. However, I think it fits with what a narcissist does. A narcissist thinks they are smarter than everyone else and that the rules don't apply, IMO. If PF is a narcissist, he could have thought that LE would not have looked, virtually in plain sight. JMO.

 

[NoeticSoul]

a Q is does he have a "friendlier" jury pool near his home, or in a remote place?
not sure if the defense really wants this in a remote place, but I imagine that local people have heard s lot of news.

It's a very small tight-knit community.. he's probably better off where he is imho.

 

[Artis]

In many criminal cases, the investigators "follow the money". In this case I would prefer to "follow the phone (the flight instructor's phone)". On the 22 nd, she had the phone. A day or two later PF had her phone and probably handed it over to the nurse.

How did you get her phone, PF? You had your own phone, why did you need hers? What did you tell the nurse to do with the phone? How many times did you call the nurse between mid November and December 1 st? (Hope you did a lot of texting to the nurse.)

I wonder if PF asked the nurse to kill the flight instructor in person or on the phone?

There are three interesting phones here, PF's phone, the nurse's phone, and the flight instructor's phone. IMO

There are three mistakes made here: the actual murder, the involvement of another person, and the botched coverup. Chris Watts only made one of these mistakes.

According to the Rs, KK got a new phone "number" at some point. I'm hoping that was because hers was confiscated, when her home was searched, as opposed to her getting rid of it before LE was on to her.

Could these people have been stupid enough to do something like text about murder? I hope so.

 

[Artis]

Colorado District Courts are balanced so that they all represent about the same number of people, with most being like the 4th District........a populous urban area offsset by a large lightly populated rural area. Four, I think are entirely urban, and about six are entirely sparsely poulated rural but very conservative. More than half of Teller county population is rural, and PF is a rural boy. Just where would you move the venue to, where it would be more favorable to him? IMO

Exactly my thinking. He's a homeboy and, apparently, some people around there like him.

 

[Kapua]

Colorado District Courts are balanced so that they all represent about the same number of people, with most being like the 4th District........a populous urban area offsset by a large lightly populated rural area. Four, I think are entirely urban, and about six are entirely sparsely poulated rural but very conservative. More than half of Teller county population is rural, and PF is a rural boy. Just where would you move the venue to, where it would be more favorable to him? IMO

You seem much more knowledgeable about the CO District Courts than I am. I am merely speculating based on other very high-profile cases I've followed. Often, the defense attorney petitions for a change of venue to get a larger, more unbiased jury pool. I'd go for Denver based on what little I know of CO.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Could very well be. I've seen it before.

I have heard of this when a verdict is announced but not during a hearing.

 

[Kapua]

Tweeting is allowed according to Sam, however.

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
The State released a decorum order for Tuesday's hearing. No recording is allowed inside the courthouse. That said, tweeting is allowed from inside the courtroom. #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee @KOAA

Hey, Sam. Bring a pen and a notepad just in case. #oldschool

 

[?mysterian?]

I can't see how anyone who had just committed a murder would be stupid enough to dump evidence in plain sight, knowing their every move is being watched.

PF made the dump run after LE executed the search warrant at his residence. I'd like to know what he disposed of and where it was during the search by LE. Here's TippyLynn's timeline from page 1, post 4 of this thread, snipped by me:

"December 14th - Friday

• Search Warrant Franzee Property/Residence

December 15th - Saturday

• Twin Falls law enforcement was requested to help

December 16th - Sunday

• The search of Patrick Frazee's property concludes Sunday night

December 18th - Tuesday

• Five law enforcement vehicles seen leaving PF Property
• PF and 2 others made trip to Waste Management Landfill"

 

[OldLadyBlues]

Hopefully they yank KK's disgusting plea deal too, for getting caught lying during or after PF's trial.

I have all the faith in the world that she'll do something to screw it up. I don't think she can help herself.
MOO, MOO

 

[susiQ]

I think PF's best shot at a good (for him) jury is right where he is.

I never thought of that until you typed those words. You're absolutely right! MOA

 

[Artis]

BBM:

Normally, I would agree with you.

This is PF we're talking about here.

It's entirely possible that he is stupid enough.

Other than the murder and solicitation, is there a reason you think he's so stupid? I have to separate the demonic acts from the intelligence part. I mean someone can do evil things and still be smart (Ted Bundy comes to mind). Getting caught for murder doesn't indicate stupidity, to me, because murder is hard to get away with (I hope). I don't know enough about him other than he's abusive, reckless, a liar and a cheater. Those are character issues, rather than IQ. I guess we have to define stupid.

 

[MyBelle]

Disclosure of these documents will certainly generate even more prejudicial pretrial
publicity than the massive amount of such publicity that already exists. This jeopardizes
Mr. Frazee’s ability to receive a fair trial by an impartial jury as guaranteed by the
Colorado and United States Constitutions.

I have to agree. As much I'd like to see the arrest affidavit, the information (not the actual document, but maybe later) in it should be come out at the prelim. Patrick Frazee's right to a fair trial is paramount.

As for the rest of it... nice job on the part of the TV stations trying to bullsh!t the court! Sheesh. Good way to get your reporters banned from future proceedings. Very unprofessional and unethical but this is the media we're talking about so par for the course.

I also agree the right to a fair trial is paramount. I'm as impressed with this defense as I was with Watt's public defender. The Defense points out, the DA suggested the media file to unseal the documents that the DA insisted needed to be sealed even from Frazee and his attorney just weeks ago. She seems to imply the DA wants Frazee convicted in the court of public opinion prior to trial.

The Defense suggests sanctions should be imposed on the KOAA attorney because the attorney lied to the court. Let's not blame the actions of the attorney on the reporters who are trying to cover this case fairly and objectively.

We shouldn't expect to see those sealed documents any time soon. I sure hope the DA has more compelling evidence than just the word of KK.

JMO

 

[susiQ]

I would expect a delay while forensic examination was done. It would also depend on where the remains were found. If they were found in, oh, I dunno, Idaho, that would really change things, eh?

That might be wishful thinking, but hey, I'm o.k. with that.

 

[ajaylee]

I wouldn't call him stupid - I don't know enough about him - but I don't think he's as clever as he thinks he is.

He was thinking and planning to kill KB for at least two months. He either settled on a plan with holes or he got impatient and deviated from the original plan. (Truly horrible: IIRC, CB visited KB in October - when PF was already planning KB's murder. CB said they seemed 'loving'. Little did she know...)

I think he originally had a two-person plan and KK wouldn't go along with it, he got impatient and/or something triggered him Thanksgiving Day, and he tried to modify the plan on the fly to make it a one-man job.

If his plan was to make it look like KB disappeared somewhere on the country highways heading north, he should have figured people would wonder how she left town without a car or purse or phone or keys. That might have been the original plan but KK wouldn't cooperate and he didn't have anyone to give him a ride back home if he took KB's car and remains and 'disappeared' them.

As another poster has noted, it will be ironic indeed if it turns out that the botched attempt to use the cellphone to direct suspicion elsewhere ends up being his undoing.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

I have heard of this when a verdict is announced but not during a hearing.

In my time of being (what feels like) a perpetual juror depending on the case and the judge, the bench will ask for no emotion especially if it's an emotionally charged case. Outbursts and you are removed from the courtroom.

 

[Artis]

You seem much more knowledgeable about the CO District Courts than I am. I am merely speculating based on other very high-profile cases I've followed. Often, the defense attorney petitions for a change of venue to get a larger, more unbiased jury pool. I'd go for Denver based on what little I know of CO.

I'm beginning to think Dave is an AI program because he's got so much knowledge, he's like a search engine.

*picks up phone*

Dave, please get me information on Colorado district courts...

 

[Artis]

Hey, Sam. Bring a pen and a notepad just in case. #oldschool

In the old days, reporters probably knew shorthand.

 

[GordianKnot]

We are.

BOOM!!! Love that, Artis!

 

[Love Never Fails]

I'm beginning to think Dave is an AI program because he's got so much knowledge, he's like a search engine.

*picks up phone*

Dave, please get me information on Colorado district courts...

Dave does have knowledge of CO courts and CO history. He is a very valuable asset in this case, and others as well. IMO

 

[susiQ]

I can't see how anyone who had just committed a murder would be stupid enough to dump evidence in plain sight, knowing their every move is being watched.

LOL! I'm just thinking back to yesterday when NoeticSoul posted there were more interviews coming and I commented I couldn't believe there were THAT many stupid people in Twin Falls. Riolove77 responded with,
"Hold my beer. Just watch!" or something very close.
So, let's apply THAT to PF!