CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #39 *ARREST*

[Deleted member 718]

Patrick Frazee due in court for preliminary hearing Tuesday

Patrick Frazee due in court for preliminary hearing Tuesday

• Sam Kraemer
• 3:33 pm
• February 18, 2019

A big shout-out to Sam Kraemer for his continued coverage of this case.

 

[acutename]

Round #1 of the snowstorm today. The mountains are a white-out. Round two expected at 3 pm today. Much, much worse in Cripple Creek today & tomorrow. Some folks might need chains on their tires to travel there imo. 8+ inches more of snow expected today -10 wind chills in the Springs alone.

Have a good Monday friends! Waiting anxiously for PF's court-date tomorrow. Do we think that KK will be present?

eta Fox local news did have the Berreth's new allegations against PF in the Civil suit, on TV this morning.

do they ever cancel court if the weather is bad enough? or do you just have get a bigger wheeled vehicle with chains and tough it out?

 

[Ccging]

So I know I’m probably over optimistic, but any thoughts on maybe PF saw the amended complaint and he knows he is going to be exposed now, so he may offer up the location of KB in exchange for a deal?? Could that happen tomorrow? And if it does would we find out tomorrow?

 

[GordianKnot]

I'm sure KK will be too terribly frightened.. to come to court in person to testify anywhere near him. *big eye roll* MOO!

The DA made KK one sweetie beauty of a deal in exchange for her testimony. IMO, terms of her deal will include requiring her to appear in person to testify at his trial. She is going to have to march her queenly behind right straight past PF at the defendant's table to go take the stand.

At which point, she will proceed to hang him out to dry with her testimony.

KK will be forced to stare at PF squarely in the face as she damns him with her own words. So, there's that, at least.

KK will not be allowed to hide behind a camera. The DA will want the jury to get the full impact of her testimony. Cameras dilute that.

If he's smart, he'll take a plea deal in exchange for KB's location.
Oh, sorry, wait, what am I saying....

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

So I know I’m probably over optimistic, but any thoughts on maybe PF saw the amended complaint and he knows he is going to be exposed now, so he may offer up the location of KB in exchange for a deal?? Could that happen tomorrow? And if it does would we find out tomorrow?

He’s already seen the discovery in this case, so the amended civil suit likely only contained a fraction of the information that the prosecution has against him.

It wouldn’t have broken new ground, nor changed anything.

It’s theoretically possible that the prosecution would offer him some sort of a deal in an effort to find Kelsey, but I am less than optimistic that he would ever accept it, if that were to even occur.

We may learn more about the case against him tomorrow, but I don’t anticipate there will be much more than that.

 

[Dave F.]

I believe you are correct.

While I'm sure there are exceptions, in criminal cases, the defendant has the right to confront his/her accuser "face to face."

I'm not aware of any alleged victims not present at trial [for cross examination], but I've seen where witnesses have testified remotely via camera.

MOO

In the plea agreement, she guaranteed her testimony without conditions. KKL really doesn't have any options in the matter. Odds are great that KKL will testify in person during the trial. IMO

 

[nwmouse]

So I know I’m probably over optimistic, but any thoughts on maybe PF saw the amended complaint and he knows he is going to be exposed now, so he may offer up the location of KB in exchange for a deal?? Could that happen tomorrow? And if it does would we find out tomorrow?

Its going to be interesting to see how this unfolds.

If PF doesn't accept a plea deal he's way more stupid than I thought.

Perhaps he's still arrogant and delusional enough to think he can outwit LE because KB's remains have not been found yet?

I think his plan was scuppered when KK squealed and he knows it.

moo

 

[Deleted member 718]

do they ever cancel court if the weather is bad enough? or do you just have get a bigger wheeled vehicle with chains and tough it out?

I'm not sure if they cancel. There are nice hotels in Cripple Creek so those required to attend could make plans to stay over if needed. Updated weather said 2-4 inches total snowfall.

Cripple Creek Winter Weather Forecast

 

[Hatfield]

Not that I expect PF to ever take a plea deal or even that LE would ever even offer him one but in the unlikely event that PF was offered and accepted lets say a life sentence deal instead of lets say the death penalty for admitting his guilt and explaining exactly what happened and what he did with her body then in that event,
What happens to KK and her plea deal?

Does she get off with just the expected slap on the hand sentence because it was not her fault there ended up not being a trial?
Or would a judge give her the maximum time that is allowed for the charges she agreed to?
Or would the deal be null and void because of no trial and maybe even more serious charges could be filed against her?

I suppose we will have to cross that bridge if it ever happens as I doubt PF will admit to anything.

 

[mickey2942]

do they ever cancel court if the weather is bad enough? or do you just have get a bigger wheeled vehicle with chains and tough it out?

More and more preliminary hearings are done with CCTV, the accused doesn't have to be physically in the courtroom for a hearing. It ties up equipment, staff, far more economical and efficient, not to mention safer, to do things electronically if possible.

 

[MassGuy]

Not that I expect PF to ever take a plea deal or even that LE would ever even offer him one but in the unlikely event that PF was offered and accepted lets say a life sentence deal instead of lets say the death penalty for admitting his guilt and explaining exactly what happened and what he did with her body then in that event,
What happens to KK and her plea deal?

Does she get off with just the expected slap on the hand sentence because it was not her fault there ended up not being a trial?
Or would a judge give her the maximum time that is allowed for the charges she agreed to?
Or would the deal be null and void because of no trial and maybe even more serious charges could be filed against her?

I suppose we will have to cross that bridge if it ever happens as I doubt PF will admit to anything.

Her deal will remain, no matter what happens with the PF case. As long as she holds up her end of the bargain, of course.

Hopefully she doesn’t have to, and there is not trial.

Regardless though, a deal is a deal.

 

[Dave F.]

He’s already seen the discovery in this case, so the amended civil suit likely only contained a fraction of the information that the prosecution has against him.

It wouldn’t have broken new ground, nor changed anything.

It’s theoretically possible that the prosecution would offer him some sort of a deal in an effort to find Kelsey, but I am less than optimistic that he would ever accept it, if that were to even occur.

We may learn more about the case against him tomorrow, but I don’t anticipate there will be much more than that.

The Amended Complaint in the civil suit really adds no information to the criminal case at this time. It provides two laundry lists of alleged lies told by PF, one list occuring before 11/22/2018 and one list occuring on 12-2 and 12-3-2018. While it describes the presumed opportunity for PF to have killed KB in great detail, the presumption is based on nothing more that is proven (yet) than the WPPD has already publicly stated as the basis of the still sealed Arrest Affidavit. The only statement of fact it contains that is newer than the arrest is in reference to KKL's plea.
I'm NOT saying there is anything faulty with the Amended Complaint. It just is not going to have any affect on the prosecution at this time. IMO

 

[Dave F.]

do they ever cancel court if the weather is bad enough? or do you just have get a bigger wheeled vehicle with chains and tough it out?

I think the judge lives in Cripple Creek. He can snowshoe it to work. IMO

 

[GordianKnot]

Her deal will remain, no matter what happens with the PF case. As long as she holds up her end of the bargain, of course.

Hopefully she doesn’t have to, and there is not trial.

Regardless though, a deal is a deal.

BBM: Yep!

Also, much as I can't stand the woman, if PF were ever to take a plea deal (unlikely), it would in large part be precisely because of KK's willingness to testify against him and the fact that her testimony would likely cement his cowboy boots in a concrete cell.

So, in that sense, even if PF were to plead out, KK's anticipated testimony would have had value, and in that respect, she would have held up her end of the deal in terms of helping secure a conviction.

 

[MemPat]

I think they used the term "detained briefly and released". I don't believe that would have done that at all if there wasn't something less than 100 percent cooperation by MaF. IMO

I thought at the time Momma must have mouthed off at LE so they showed her who was boss!

 

[Hatfield]

BBM: Yep!

Also, much as I can't stand the woman, if PF were ever to take a plea deal (unlikely), it would in large part be precisely because of KK's willingness to testify against him and the fact that her testimony would likely cement his cowboy boots in a concrete cell.

So, in that sense, even if PF were to plead out, KK's anticipated testimony would have had value, and in that respect, she would have held up her end of the deal in terms of helping secure a conviction.

Very good point and I didnt even think about that but you are so correct. LE would feel KK has satisfied her part because it contributed in a great way to making PF plead guilty. Great point.

 

[Rockymtnmermaid]

I imagine he was a busy man on Thanksgiving, but I can't understand why people think a rural cowboy has to go to the big city at all, on any day. IMO

Hi all! Long time lurker, first time poster. I live in Colorado Springs and this case has my attention! There’s not been much regarding the case by way of our local news so I like to read all of the wonderful sluthers thoughts and posts when I can. Regarding Thanksgiving, I assume he didn’t go to have a meal at Cracker Barrel with KB but I do know that Cracker Barel was one of the few restaurants open that day and the served traditional turkey dinner. I imagine the few restaurants that are in Woodland Park were closesd. Just my two cents. & JMO

 

[Dave F.]

I'm not sure if they cancel. There are nice hotels in Cripple Creek so those required to attend could make plans to stay over if needed. Updated weather said 2-4 inches total snowfall.

Cripple Creek Winter Weather Forecast

Both the Prosecutor's office and the Public Defender's office were closed today. My guess is that if you go out to eat tonight in Cripple Creek, you may be able to spot members of both groups, doing the same. That would leave PF as the only cast member expected to travel tomorrow morning, unless he is already a guest of the Cripple Creek Police Department for the night. I hope he remembered to bring a warm vest. IMO

 

[Yellow Rose]

Imo PF is not gonna cop a plea to anything. Period. He will deny, deny, deny to the end so it’s paramount that LE have their ducks in a row

 

[NoeticSoul]

do they ever cancel court if the weather is bad enough? or do you just have get a bigger wheeled vehicle with chains and tough it out?

People here slap on the chains and tough it out! Possibly a delay, depending upon the overnight snowfall (allot is expected), but I've not seen many canceled.