CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #41 *ARREST*

[NCTeacher]

I'm pretty convinced PF had something planned for KB that night out with the cows but it fell through, MOO

Probably. It would make more sense though, after Bessie and friends refused to stampede to just beat her right then and there. I cannot wrap my mind around how he thought it would be better to do it the next day, at her house, with neighbors all around, on Thanksgiving---and then leave the house looking like Amityville for 1.5 days.

 

[v0x]

Possibly.

Personally, though, I would be more scared of getting caught beating someone in the middle of the day, in a townhome in the middle of a complex than in the middle of the night, out in a field in the middle of nowhere. Heck, he could've had her "trampled to death" by an animal and crisis averted, and he'd come out smelling like a rose.

This wasn’t just any day though, it was thanksgiving day when many people are away from home. I must say though, that I had not considered that a herd of trained killer cows may have done the deed.

 

[MemPat]

I think it could be the other way around-- Perhaps KK wanted PF to "take care of" CL (or someone else)? Perhaps PF agreed to help her with "her problem" but first KK would have to prove herself by murdering KB? Could this be a "you do my murder and I'll do yours" type of deal?

Why would KK act as if she is at PF's beck and call when it comes to committing murder? Unless she had her own reasons for wanting KB dead too, or had been promised something big in return for herself (quid pro quo), or has something to hide that PF was threatening to reveal? What else is there? I'm not buying that she was motivated simply by fear of PF. MOO.

It's just mind boggling anyone would do what she did.

MOO.

Wow! I hadn't even thought they might have discussed killing each other's partners.

This would certainly explain PF having a hold over KK.

Even having a chat about ways to kill CL would be a problem for her, but imagine if he has recently had near-accidents.

 

[Steelslady]

Her friend who's car with the fully loaded gun said she borrowed her car on the 23rd.

Do we even trust that friend?

 

[NCTeacher]

This wasn’t just any day though, it was thanksgiving day when many people are away from home. I must say though, that I had not considered that a herd of trained killer cows may have done the deed.

See, and I think Thanksgiving was a huge risk. People are out and about, kids are playing in yards, most people aren't working and no one is at school. I picture my own yard, dogs running around, kids on the trampoline, etc. If a crime went down in my neighborhood on Thanksgiving, there'd be a witness for sure.

 

[gypsysoul]

I had to skip some pages to get caught up, so maybe I missed these discussions, but I have two questions...

1) Dan May was wanting SF to be called to the stand b/c he thought she could offer info "about a defendant showing up to her house on Thanksgiving". Who is this defendant (Sam Kraemer says he assumes they are referring to KK)? If they have determined KK was in Idaho, who is this defendant in question? Sam Kraemer on Twitter

2) According the the arrest affidavit, MG's gun was returned in a different state, missing one bullet and one in the chamber when there wasn't one before KK had it in her presence. What does this information offer to PF's defense by way of reasonable doubt? Especially if you add in the above - that SF may be able to testify that KK did show up at her house Thanksgiving Day??

 

[indicolite22]

Perhaps he knew FOR A FACT no one would pop in, but I think under normal circumstances people would be VERY worried about a townhome sitting full of blood for 36 hours if they had just murdered someone in there--even if the victim had few friends and no family in the area.

It was THANKSGIVING weekend. If I were PF, I would be worried sick that KB could have mom, brother, aunt, uncle, cousin, or friend coming for a surprise visit to see her and the baby--and boom, murder scene is discovered. What if a neighbor SAW something suspicious and called the police? What if a neighbor HEARD something suspicious and called the police? What is someone breaks in? What if KK runs her big fat mouth and tells somebody and the cops go check it out?

I'm sorry, but it is REALLY REALLY bizarre that he left that house with blood "everywhere" for such a prolonged period of time.

If a friend came for a surprise visit, they'd only discover that she wasn't in. Unless someone had the keys there would not be much chance of discovery. I think PF was more worried about getting rid of the body on time. He waited with that also.

 

[Deleted member 718]

That’s the thing with KK. Lies? Truth? Batsh*t crazy?

Yep, I'm skeptical about anything she's said. She's a proven liar.

Let the facts do the talking.

 

[Warwick7]

I still can't help but wonder if the coffee was in fact tainted. I know KK said that she communicated with PF and said she couldn't do it and he was mad etc. But I still wonder if It more went like I'm sorry it didn't work she wouldn't take it etc. I'm sure maybe we will find out that texts do support her version. But if the texts are vague or if it was a phone conversation with PF, I'm just not sure I can give her the benefit of the doubt. MOO

Maybe that's how it was supposed to go the first time, with the macchiato tainted. And because she didn't put the Ambien in before she gave her the macchiato--- maybe that's the real reason PF got so angry at Kk

 

[WhimsicalWillow]

It makes me SICK and MAD that he blindfolded her and played a "game" of "smell the candles" before beating her to death with a bat on Thanksgiving day.... with baby K in the other room!!!!

Right after Christ Watts makes national news in the same state of Colorado for brutally murdering his entire family.

What a sick, evil, disgusting monster PF is (and CW). It is absurd that there are people like this that exist in the world.

This sounds like a sick and twisted Lifetime movie.

I was devastated to hear of how the Watts family died and I was devastated to learn of how KB was brutally murdered today.

 

[Seattle1]

So, just jumping in and off your post, I guess I'd like to take a minute to speak to that point.
I've seen similar sentiments expressed on the thread re: Dan May, and people's understandable feelings of dismay re: the deal he proffered to KK.
I say understandable because I share those exact same feelings you and countless others here have expressed.
Frankly, the fact that KK received such a sweetie beauty of a deal sticks in my craw,
and I don't even know what a craw is.
KK doesn't deserve a pass.
But for all intents and purposes, she's been given a pass.
Life doesn't always hand us what we deserve.
They say justice is blind.
In this case, Lady Justice had to strap on her blindfold w/ regard to KK's actions.
It had to be done.
Because PF must, must, MUST be made to pay for his savage, vicious snuffing out of KB's precious life's breath. PF took everything from KB. Everything. And he did it in a cruel, barbaric and bestial way.
PF is evil incarnate. I really believe that.
I think Dan May recognizes the extreme danger that PF poses to society, and he made the determination that PF had to be locked away forever at any cost, both for the safety of society as a whole and as a just punishment for his ferocious extinguishing of KB's light.
I'll bet you anything that Dan May absolutely hated having to make that deal with KK.
As much as this deal sticks in my craw and yours, too, probably, I'll bet it sticks in Dan's even more.
But he knows what the overarching imperative he's been tasked with is, and that's to make sure PF pays for his actions.
PF plotted KB's murder.
PF solicited KB's murder.
PF executed KB's murder.
With a baseball bat. A baseball bat!
Dan May is going to eviscerate PF in the courtroom.
Dan is going to bury PF, but he needs KK's cooperation and testimony to do it.
KK is the only one holding the magic shovel.
Frazeeing PF is the real imperative here. So, I swallow the bile that rises in my throat every time I think of KK walking out of the courthouse a free woman, because right on the heels of that thought is the absolute conviction that Dan May is going to ensure that PF never draws a free breath for the rest of his unnatural, unholy life, which hopefully won't be a long one.
For me, that's enough.
Here endeth the manifesto.

Prior to the preliminary hearing, my motto had been that I didn't care if the jurors hated KK, just as long as they believed what she had to say about PF.

Today, knowing what was revealed to us about both PF and KK's brutal, unconscionable, actions against KB, I'm seething!

I'm seething about "plea deals," and the resultant injustice to the victims.

I'm seething that KK confided in so many people about PF's solicitation to murder KB, and all remained silent.

I'm seething that nobody warned KB, or the authorities.

And I'm sorry to say this, but I'm fuming over what appears to be the gross incompetence of the WPPD in investigating the crime scene (KB's condo)!! There, I said it!

Yes, I hope that I'm completely wrong here but it really seems to me that the only reason PF was arrested on 12/21, and not before, was because KK had to provide them the evidence required to do so.

Unless proven otherwise, I don't believe that WPPD had any any evidence that KB was murdered, and/or murdered in her home, up until KK fed it to them. Phone records are good, but they won't convict PF.

I believe WPPD considered KB a woman that was having relationship issues, and that she took a break away from PF. I also believe that "local" PF's word mattered more over the outsider KB, and detectives delayed thinking and/or believing KB could be a victim of homicide.

I'm angry that DA May made a deal with the devil, but I'm more angry that it doesn't appear to me that he had much choice! -- I feel his pain, I think we all do -- especially after the hearing.

I'm also aware that CB texted WPPD that she believed she found blood in KB's condo, and I'll never understand why it was KB's mother that located blood evidence, and not the trained detectives.

I have to trust that PF will go away for the remainder of his life, and there will be justice for KB, but I do worry now that the jurors will hate KK more than believe her! It's pretty easy to want to finger her as the murderer. I know the evidence points to PF, but his defense only needs one juror with reasonable doubt.

KK getting a pass, and not being severely punished, is just a difficult pill to swallow today.

MOO

 

[v0x]

See, and I think Thanksgiving was a huge risk. People are out and about, kids are playing in yards, most people aren't working and no one is at school. I picture my own yard, dogs running around, kids on the trampoline, etc. If a crime went down in my neighborhood on Thanksgiving, there'd be a witness for sure.

We’ve only heard one report from a neighbor though, and if I recall it was that they saw his car while they were leaving their house.

 

[sunshineandlove]

Probably. It would make more sense though, after Bessie and friends refused to stampede to just beat her right then and there. I cannot wrap my mind around how he thought it would be better to do it the next day, at her house, with neighbors all around, on Thanksgiving---and then leave the house looking like Amityville for 1.5 days.

I think it dawned on him that her family would likely call her to wish her a Happy Thanksgiving or vice versa so he waited. So if he told KB let's have dinner for TG and she told her Mom the romantic story about how they were going to have dinner, the 3 of them, and maybe get a Christmas tree, her Mom would have zero suspicion and that buys him several days before anyone knows she's missing. Do it the night before and the above would not have happened.

 

[Warwick7]

Wow! I hadn't even thought they might have discussed killing each other's partners.

This would certainly explain PF having a hold over KK.

Even having a chat about ways to kill CL would be a problem for he, but imagine if he has recently had near-accidents.

However, what would be the import to having CL dead. Weren't they already divorced? And didn't we hear KK turned over the rights to her home on December 28th 2018?! CL killed, what good would it do her?

 

[Aydrianna523]

This wasn’t just any day though, it was thanksgiving day when many people are away from home. I must say though, that I had not considered that a herd of trained killer cows may have done the deed.

Had to chuckle at killer cows.

 

[NCTeacher]

If a friend came for a surprise visit, they'd only discover that she wasn't in. Unless someone had the keys there would not be much chance of discovery. I think PF was more worried about getting rid of the body on time. He waited with that also.

Not only would I worry about the possibility of a key, but I would worry that with both of her cars being home they'd start peaking in windows, calling the cell phone---- a family member or friend that just traveled a few hundred miles isn't going to go away until they get an answer. He could stave them off for some time, for sure, but ultimately it would've been discovered.

I'm just saying, what he did was a HUGE RISK. A risk most people wouldn't have taken under any circumstance, let alone a holiday weekend. Moreover, it wasn't like it was a spur-of-the-moment crime of passion. It was premeditated, why on Earth did he "overkill" her to cause such a huge, risky mess to begin with?

It's mind-boggling.

 

[v0x]

Had to chuckle at killer cows.

MOO

 

[ab01]

I also wonder what would have happened if any of the people that knew about KK and PF scheming had spoken up early before or after the murder. Would KK be sitting right beside PF?

 

[OldLadyBlues]

I went to bed last night saying to myself, why wait till the next morning and then get blood everywhere. You're already out in the middle of no-man's-land with cattle. If you want her dead why don't you just kill her out there??? There are multiple scenarios to hiding a killing anywhere out there!! Why wait till the next day inside of her home where it would be so hard to clean up everything???
Something is not adding up!!!!!

I agree with you, Warwick! And why, after he said, 'You have a mess to clean up' did she say she couldn't be there until the 24th? And why didn't he throw a fit at hearing that from her? Have you ever tried to get blood up after it's sat? Peroxide is the only way, THEN the bleach especially on wood.
Then we hear she "left some blood for clues". BULLPUCKY! At one time or another she had in her possession a phone, a purse with IDs, keys, cleanup rags, curtains, rug, toys, aluminum, a Bible, pictures and countless other things to give the LE "clues".
IF she was so afraid of this defendant, she had possession of KBs ID to blackmail HIM while calmly laying KBs tooth on top of it. Then, because she is so afraid of him, she assists him in either moving her body or helping in the burn (I can't remember because there are just too many inconsistencies) and oh, by the way, where is that bullet that we're missing from M's gun chamber that she NEVER chambers?
I don't know which is worse. Knowing what we know or not knowing the truth.
MOO, MOO

 

[Warwick7]

If a friend came for a surprise visit, they'd only discover that she wasn't in. Unless someone had the keys there would not be much chance of discovery. I think PF was more worried about getting rid of the body on time. He waited with that also.

It was said by someone else a relative of KB's could have popped in for a surprise. When CB and her son CB arrived at Kelsey's they were able to let themselves in with her own key. A thanksgiving pop in surprise could be someone with their own key like her mother. With a bloody house that is a risk to take