CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #41 *ARREST*

[Teche]

I brought a certain person's name up before pertaining to this.

Could you provide more info, please?

 

[MemPat]

One thing I’m curious about is that PF and KK were involved since 2016 according to the affidavit and her ex. Yet, in 2016 he also goes online to meet someone else. So he was not happy with just KK. Wonder when she REALLY found out about KB? And I wonder if KB was one of several girls he met online? I wonder if there are others that he was seeing in 2016? I’ve also wondered if he had a reputation with the local girls, hence him preferring women that were not in CO? Just thinking out loud.

I'm pretty convinced PF had an active online presence with women and if I were LE I would have used that to get KK furious enough to spill the (coffee) beans!

 

[NCTeacher]

We’ve only heard one report from a neighbor though, and if I recall it was that they saw his car while they were leaving their house.

I know, I get that, but he had no way of knowing what the neighborhood dynamics were going to be in the few hours he was going to be there----any of number of things could've happened that put a lot of witnesses in his vicinity. KB did not live in the country, she had neighbors in close proximity and I'm not inclined to believe that he knew the neighbors all around her so well that he could predict their comings and goings and that they would not be able to witness anything, particularly on a day where routines are not followed.

 

[WhimsicalWillow]

Friends of KK say that "KK was in love with PF. PF was her first love".

I believe KK romanticized her relationship with PF far more than how PF felt about it. I feel PF believed KK was DESPERATE for HIM enough to kill. PF was an arrogant man that believed he could make a desperate KK do anything for him. Not only was PF cheating on KB, he was probably cheating on KK too. I believe he was using KK because he knew she was desperate for him.

He knew KK for a long, long, long time and never wanted to commit to her yet she'd drive from Idaho to meet up with him on his terms.

I don't know what KK's involvement was but PF obviously was a cheater, as well as a coward, who believed he could solicit a desperate KK get rid of KB.

According to the phone call recorded by LE of the break up, KB WANTED TO BREAK UP WITH PF.... (I gathered this information from the tweets of reporter Sam Kraemer who tweeted it live during court yesterday, correct me if I am wrong). He was dating both women (maybe more???). It's possible KK gave him an ultimatum of breaking up with KB and he didn't want to make that choice--- he'd rather KK kill KB than break it off with her himself?????

 

[MemPat]

Probably. It would make more sense though, after Bessie and friends refused to stampede to just beat her right then and there. I cannot wrap my mind around how he thought it would be better to do it the next day, at her house, with neighbors all around, on Thanksgiving---and then leave the house looking like Amityville for 1.5 days.

Ha! I picture the Chik-Fil-A cows raging! Actually, I thought PF might have hidden himself out there in the dark to ambush her but lost his nerve.

 

[ilovematt]

According to line 81 of arrest Affidavit Meghan knew about the plot to kill KB on Oct22. Yet she let KK borrow her car with a fully loaded gun in it.
Now she wants to play all innocent too. Like she had no idea.
WTH.
These people are just so evil. Stupid too.
MOO

YES! Culpability means something. I’m jaded from being a Websleuths OG lurker but I have to believe these “ladies” won’t get away scot-free.

 

[ab01]

I know, I get that, but he had no way of knowing what the neighborhood dynamics were going to be in the few hours he was going to be there----any of number of things could've happened that put a lot of witnesses in his vicinity. KB did not live in the country, she had neighbors in close proximity and I'm not inclined to believe that he knew the neighbors all around her so well that he could predict their comings and goings and that they would not be able to witness anything, particularly on a day where routines are not followed.

Heck it was even a duplex, It shared a wall with the neighbor....I'm guessing PF likely knew the neighbors in the other half of the duplex wouldn't be home...MOO

 

[Herat]

Possibly.

Personally, though, I would be more scared of getting caught beating someone in the middle of the day, in a townhome in the middle of a complex than in the middle of the night, out in a field in the middle of nowhere. Heck, he could've had her "trampled to death" by an animal and crisis averted, and he'd come out smelling like a rose.

Exactly

And if Baby K was the object of all this behavior, why leave Baby K the least bit exposed? From KK's version it sounds like she was only not in direct sight, but certainly within earshot of the sounds.

I have the feeling that KB was very savagely beaten and that he was not in it for a quick death for her. I hate to say this. It's a horrible horrible thought, but the blood evidence finally found tells us that she wasn't quietly strangled as we had originally thought, but was beaten with many hits. There was pathologic overkill here. Unbridled rage against HER. Almost as if keeping the Baby was an afterthought.

After all, that Baby was always going to look like her beautiful mother.

 

[v0x]

I had to skip some pages to get caught up, so maybe I missed these discussions, but I have two questions...

1) Dan May was wanting SF to be called to the stand b/c he thought she could offer info "about a defendant showing up to her house on Thanksgiving". Who is this defendant (Sam Kraemer says he assumes they are referring to KK)? If they have determined KK was in Idaho, who is this defendant in question? Sam Kraemer on Twitter

2) According the the arrest affidavit, MG's gun was returned in a different state, missing one bullet and one in the chamber when there wasn't one before KK had it in her presence. What does this information offer to PF's defense by way of reasonable doubt? Especially if you add in the above - that SF may be able to testify that KK did show up at her house Thanksgiving Day??

As far as I’m aware, PF is the only named defendant in this case so far... is KKL a defendant too?

 

[Warwick7]

I agree with you, Warwick! And why, after he said, 'You have a mess to clean up' did she say she couldn't be there until the 24th? And why didn't he throw a fit at hearing that from her? Have you ever tried to get blood up after it's sat? Peroxide is the only way, THEN the bleach especially on wood.
Then we hear she "left some blood for clues". BULLPUCKY! At one time or another she had in her possession a phone, a purse with IDs, keys, cleanup rags, curtains, rug, toys, aluminum, a Bible, pictures and countless other things to give the LE "clues".
IF she was so afraid of this defendant, she had possession of KBs ID to blackmail HIM while calmly laying KBs tooth on top of it. Then, because she is so afraid of him, she assists him in either moving her body or helping in the burn (I can't remember because there are just too many inconsistencies) and oh, by the way, where is that bullet that we're missing from M's gun chamber that she NEVER chambers?
I don't know which is worse. Knowing what we know or not knowing the truth.
MOO, MOO

Great Post!! Yes I do know what it's like to clean blood up. As I said in a post early this morning I own a cleaning company. I also do construction clean up and 911 cleanup. Dawn and peroxide is the only only way to make sure nothing stains. You cannot get blood out unless you use those two products. KK use the washing machine. With a day and a half of dried blood--- there still will be stains. I have used to bleach recipe, but you risk carpets being bleached out or colored wrong. Also bleach smells for days.

 

[MassGuy]

Prior to the preliminary hearing, my motto had been that I didn't care if the jurors hated KK, just as long as they believed what she had to say about PF.

Today, knowing what was revealed to us about both PF and KK's brutal, unconscionable, actions against KB, I'm seething!

I'm seething about "plea deals," and the resultant injustice to the victims.

I'm seething that KK confided in so many people about PF's solicitation to murder KB, and all remained silent.

I'm seething that nobody warned KB, or the authorities.

And I'm sorry to say this, but I'm fuming over what appears to be the gross incompetence of the WPPD in investigating the crime scene (KB's condo)!! There, I said it!

Yes, I hope that I'm completely wrong here but it really seems to me that the only reason PF was arrested on 12/21, and not before, was because KK had to provide them the evidence required to do so.

Unless proven otherwise, I don't believe that WPPD had any any evidence that KB was murdered, and/or murdered in her home, up until KK fed it to them. Phone records are good, but they won't convict PF.

I believe WPPD considered KB a woman that was having relationship issues, and that she took a break away from PF. I also believe that "local" PF's word mattered more over the outsider KB, and detectives delayed thinking and/or believing KB could be a victim of homicide.

I'm angry that DA May made a deal with the devil, but I'm more angry that it doesn't appear to me that he had much choice! -- I feel his pain, I think we all do -- especially after the hearing.

I'm also aware that CB texted WPPD that she believed she found blood in KB's condo, and I'll never understand why it was KB's mother that located blood evidence, and not the trained detectives.

I have to trust that PF will go away for the remainder of his life, and there will be justice for KB, but I do worry now that the jurors will hate KK more than believe her! It's pretty easy to want to finger her as the murderer. I know the evidence points to PF, but his defense only needs one juror with reasonable doubt.

KK getting a pass, and not being severely punished, is just a difficult pill to swallow today.

MOO

Well said.

Once we heard about this plea deal, I was resigned to the fact that she was more involved than what she plead to, and was going to get off much lighter than she should.

I didn’t imagine that she was involved to the extent that was revealed yesterday:

Three solicitations that nearly resulted in murder attempts.

Cleaning up Kelsey’s blood and teeth.

Helping PF to mislead the investigation, destroy evidence, and lying to the FBI.

At the same time, I understand why the DA was willing to cut a deal with the devil.

I’m convinced it was necessary.

This could have gone on for years, and justice may have been elusive.

A killer could have succeeded in his diabolical plan, and gone on to live a happy life with his child and mistress.

Now he won’t.

 

[Steelslady]

We know is what she told law enforcement. Everything is predicated on what..." she said".
I think it's hard to leave someone doped up for a day and a half and tied up ....or is it worse and more risky to leave a bloody apartment empty for a day and a half risking someone coming in.
I'm just not convinced yet it wasn't her that did the beating.

Not to mention, two days after a brutal murder like that- can you imagine the copper smell of that place from the blood? I read a couple of articles online where it says it can take from two days to two weeks to clean up a crime scene, like Krystal described. She did all that cleaning in 3-4 hours by herself? She must be the Wonder Woman of crime scene cleaners.

 

[ilovematt]

I find her whole cleaning exercise weird. She does this for 3-4 hrs- obviously it could have been done for longer- it seems as if she ran out of energy and ran out of supplies. People have said "how could she eat after this," but she does not seem so much horrified and disgusted as just a person who drove a long way and did a lot of cleaning and she just gets hungry like a person doing house work. On some level like a hyena, she seems to revel in the blood- does she think at that point that it proves that PF likes her (KK) because he killed KB? On the other hand, all the blood makes for more work...why for her? Why is this her task? Does she have a master/slave relationship with PF where he assigns her tasks or like a gang where she is supposed to become a "good criminal?" PF still lives at the ranch and she does things such as "drops the metal pipe off at the ranch gate at night." These two do not seem to be lovers so much as criminals together. It also seems IMO that when she "fails" at the coffee and the metal pipe, she is superficially compliant with PF, but she really does not want to do this, so she fails and escapes. Wonder if there are demonstrable threats from him. Wonder if the 3-4 hrs cleaning are another way she is being only superficially compliant, and she is thinking that there are some small spots left but she is not going to "do a better job" to spite PF. Wonder also if she does eventually start to think she is next and there was nothing wrong with KB.

Ugly mental picture alert: Violence Trigger alert:








My foster mom owned a forensic cleaning company and if it was a “deep clean” she would allocate 5 hours per 200 sq ft if we had 2 people, suited and full in hustle. We cleaned a lot of suicides and biohazard areas like meth labs. If he beat her teeth in, 3-4 hours is just lazy.

 

[Wild Rose]

Which one is it when you leave a terrible crime scene behind you for TWO days? She's a nurse, let her clean it, or she's just a B like all women, so let the woman do it, or are you just so stupidly lazy, or are you mad at her that you had to do the crime and give her the crap job as an aggressive move?

 

[Seattle1]

I've wondered if KK intended to drive straight through to CO but got so sleepy she had to pull in to a motel.

I'm not sure if all tweets/blogs have been corrected but it was first being reported that KK spent the night in Greeley on 11/23, and arrived WP the morning of 11/24. Greeley is about 160 miles north of WP, and sleeping in Greeley would fit your proposed drive schedule. However, turns out this schedule happened on KK's 9/24 trip, and not the November trip. Maybe details for November will be revealed later..... MOO

 

[GordianKnot]

Prior to the preliminary hearing, my motto had been that I didn't care if the jurors hated KK, just as long as they believed what she had to say about PF.

Today, knowing what was revealed to us about both PF and KK's brutal, unconscionable, actions against KB, I'm seething!

I'm seething about "plea deals," and the resultant injustice to the victims.

I'm seething that KK confided in so many people about PF's solicitation to murder KB, and all remained silent.

I'm seething that nobody warned KB, or the authorities.

And I'm sorry to say this, but I'm fuming over what appears to be the gross incompetence of the WPPD in investigating the crime scene (KB's condo)!! There, I said it!

Yes, I hope that I'm completely wrong here but it really seems to me that the only reason PF was arrested on 12/21, and not before, was because KK had to provide them the evidence required to do so.

Unless proven otherwise, I don't believe that WPPD had any any evidence that KB was murdered, and/or murdered in her home, up until KK fed it to them. Phone records are good, but they won't convict PF.

I believe WPPD considered KB a woman that was having relationship issues, and that she took a break away from PF. I also believe that "local" PF's word mattered more over the outsider KB, and detectives delayed thinking and/or believing KB could be a victim of homicide.

I'm angry that DA May made a deal with the devil, but I'm more angry that it doesn't appear to me that he had much choice! -- I feel his pain, I think we all do -- especially after the hearing.

I'm also aware that CB texted WPPD that she believed she found blood in KB's condo, and I'll never understand why it was KB's mother that located blood evidence, and not the trained detectives.

I have to trust that PF will go away for the remainder of his life, and there will be justice for KB, but I do worry now that the jurors will hate KK more than believe her! It's pretty easy to want to finger her as the murderer. I know the evidence points to PF, but his defense only needs one juror with reasonable doubt.

KK getting a pass, and not being severely punished, is just a difficult pill to swallow today.

MOO

Seattle, what a beautiful post! I understand completely what your concerns are and I share them all. The fact that it took KB's family to find so much of the blood evidence in the home really, really bothers me. It appears LE did no more than perform a strictly cursory check of the premises when frankly, a responsible young mother disappearing without her infant daughter should have sounded a lot of alarm bells.

PF is such a monster. I'm confident he's going away forever for what he did to Kelsey.

KK is the worst.

PF is the worst of the worst.

I don't like the way our justice system "works" sometimes.
If we're lucky, she'll violate the terms of the deal somehow and Dan can go after her, too.
Fingers crossed!

 

[InvSmith]

If you really want my personal opinion.... PF was going for a 2 for 1 or a BOGO (buy one get one).... Have KK kill KB and most likely get caught (highly doubtful KK would kill off KB with a steel rod in a parking lot.... or with a baseball bat)..... the coffee thing is another issue. Either way, IF IF IF... KK was able to kill KB its a darn good chance (in my mind) she would have been caught. How perfect for PF...... KB is gone for ever, KK is in prison for ever.. He'd get rid of them both. He is one sick, sick ****. KK is lucky she is still alive.

LE isn't that dumb to incarcerate and charge someone for first degree murder if they didn't do it. Same with CW. I'm sick of all these male murderer apologist posts. No. PF killed her and KK was an accessory but PF is the evil mastermind and perp.

I think what some are proposing are these two appear evil-twins to confound the evidence. I was on the exact same page before psycho nurse confess to showing up at a stranger's house with coffee, bat, and a metal rod. In LE, once you are willing to admit you came part of the way, this opens a door. I don't know if KK was exactly interrogated or just interviewed. From what was presented, it is very compelling and PF is exactly where he should be, except hotter. I don't buy the story as told but I can see confirmations where LE could work around the lies to determine the truth and they did. I just wish psychos didn't commonly lie as well.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Not only would I worry about the possibility of a key, but I would worry that with both of her cars being home they'd start peaking in windows, calling the cell phone---- a family member or friend that just traveled a few hundred miles isn't going to go away until they get an answer. He could stave them off for some time, for sure, but ultimately it would've been discovered.

I'm just saying, what he did was a HUGE RISK. A risk most people wouldn't have taken under any circumstance, let alone a holiday weekend. Moreover, it wasn't like it was a spur-of-the-moment crime of passion. It was premeditated, why on Earth did he "overkill" her to cause such a huge, risky mess to begin with?

It's mind-boggling.

I guess that's how Colorado murderers do it (tongue-in-cheek comment). Remember recently when cw took the same risk of his wife's friends checking on her? He gambled. He lost. Their evil passions get in front of their logic.

 

[heartgoesout]

I'm having a hard time understanding why if KK showed them the burn spot there was zero evidence of Kelsey's remains.

 

[v0x]

According to the phone call recorded by LE of the break up, KB WANTED TO BREAK UP WITH PF.... (I gathered this information from the affidavit, correct me if I am wrong).

Which paragraph of the affidavit indicated this? I must’ve missed it.