CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #41 *ARREST*

[NoeticSoul]

The fact that KK could think up something like this - show up at KB's door and introduce herself (under a fake name), carry on a brief conversation, suggest a playdate and exchange phone numbers - this tells me she does believe PF could be a risk to her kids.

If she can do something as brazen as what she did with KB (and later get in and out of the condo in daylight without being seen), she could easily believe that PF could make one of her kids 'disappear' from a playground in plain sight.

Sometimes it takes one to know one, right? Whatever else one thinks of KK - she was a love-blind fool or possibly the mastermind - she is undeniably devious, calculating and very detail-oriented.

bbm I will never believe that KK believed that her children were in danger (or that it was even uttered) or that she was afraid of PF. She's just a cold hearted B. All lies moo.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Sorry, I'm behind (again) on figuring things out.
Has the specifics on the blood spatter been figured out?
Did the living room attack on kb, get her blood splattered in:
1) Living room
2) kitchen
3) hall?
And what about pf tracking blood? Is it assumed in:
1) Bathroom
2) other areas...

 

[enelram]

That would explain how expeditiously KK could clean. But I can’t believe she wouldn’t take down SF, too. Unless she found SF to be some sort of kindred spirit- fighting the “evils” of this world for PF’s betterment.

Oh I could picture the two of them bonding and laughing at both
having to have cleaned up the "messes" of PF for his whole life.
Wouldn't be the first time MaF had to bail him out of trouble.

 

[Inthedetails]

That would explain how expeditiously KK could clean. But I can’t believe she wouldn’t take down SF, too. Unless she found SF to be some sort of kindred spirit- fighting the “evils” of this world for PF’s betterment.

Oh man....I really hope PF did not ask his mother to clean his bloody house. As much as I'm shocked by all the people in this case and don't like any of them (except KB and family), that would really be too much.

I think KK was on her own, fwiw, with the clean-up job. I'm not convinced she left evidence "for LE," but rather, as someone posted upthread last night, perhaps as a "trophy."


Edited to add: I also think it's possible she left blood because she was tired of cleaning and PF was unlikely to notice where she neglected to clean.
jmo

 

[ab01]

What a dumba$$. Anyone whose seen enough episodes of Forensic Files knows there’s no way to clean up all that blood conpletely.

Then again CBI didn’t see it when they went in.

Which reminds I wanted to bring up Savanna Greywind’s case as an example of not noticing evidence upon an initial cursory inspection. This is understable. But to have been in there twice, CBI returning, a mother missing...really embarrassing for CBI imo and awful for Kelsey’s family.

This makes me wonder now about other cases, blood being missed.

While all true, I think the blood that was able to be seen by the naked eye was extremely minimal. I think it was only revealed how much there was when they sprayed the luminal. Moo

 

[ajaylee]

Yes, she is devious. I can't even imagine even thinking about what she did, let alone acting on those thoughts! It's bizarre!

What if she made up her fear? I don't know what to believe about her. She could be lying that PF threatened her.

I don't know what to believe of her story....though I do believe she cleaned up the house.

jmo

I've read that the most successful liars are the ones who embellish and distort the truth, not the ones who make up a complete story. I think KK is the first type and PF is the second.

We have no idea how much blood there was and we probably never will know. Perhaps KK is exaggerating to make PF look worse. Same thing with the tooth and the bloody baby toys - those are details guaranteed to turn a jury's stomach against PF, but there's no actual evidence - only the word of one known liar talking about another known liar.

It still seems to me that although it KK has a solid alibi for Thanksgiving Day, there's no actual solid proof of when KB died. I know how I would see it, knowing just what we know now, if I were a juror, but some might see it as 'reasonable doubt'. If you can accept the possibility that KB wasn't actually killed on Thanksgiving Day, then you've opened the door to the possibility that KK was the real killer.

I think much is going to depend on what was said in texts available to LE. I wouldn't be surprised to see challenges to cellphone pings as reliable evidence of where each phone's owner was, meaning even seemingly incriminating texts might not be what they appear to be.

I think the 'bones' of KK's story are probably pretty accurate and I think she's unquestionably put her own 'spin' on what details to include and what to leave out. It's going to be very interesting now to see how PF tries to 'spin' his way out. IMHO, she's better at putting together a coherent story, but he's got a lot of time to think and a lawyer to work with to tighten up his own story.

 

[margarita25]

While all true, I think the blood that was able to be seen by the naked eye was extremely minimal. I think it was only revealed how much there was when they sprayed the luminal. Moo

I hear ya.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I keep looking at KKs mugshot and thinking about her story. Something seems off to me with all of this and I can’t pinpoint what. Looking at her defiant and angry face again tonight, I started thinking about the possibility she made large chunks up with bits of truth so enough could be verified that the story wouldn’t be questioned. But why? What am I missing?

She's just as evil and manipulative as PF. her ability to make PF think he can get her to do the dirty work, while she backs him into a corner,and makes him have to do it. So she can get out of it taking the blame. looking ever the "Perfect Rodeo Queen" a 'victim'. Mean old PF put her up to this,and that, blah,blah,blah. She's a scared, shrinking violet.
No wonder PF said he felt he's being rail roaded. She helped engineer this then threw him under the bus. Once the tell tale Ping led to her door.

MOO

 

[windrower]

Yup, it was MG who initiated the car/truck exchange. Weird coincidence that it was at the very time that KK also need to borrow a car.

Or it's a story MG told to mitigate consequences for herself for loaning a car, with a loaded pistol in the glovebox, to a murderer on a mission.

Pretty darn convenient coincidence.

 

[Inthedetails]

While all true, I think the blood that was able to be seen by the naked eye was extremely minimal. I think it was only revealed how much there was when they sprayed the luminal. Moo

KB's family were the first to find the blood, fwiw.

Sad fact.

jmo

 

[margarita25]

While all true, I think the blood that was able to be seen by the naked eye was extremely minimal. I think it was only revealed how much there was when they sprayed the luminal. Moo

So, why didn’t CBI apply luminol when they went in that second time? I would think this would be SP at that stage of investigation if CBI was already involved and it was a second visit from LE? Sorry if this has been answered/covered, so many posts.

 

[Inthedetails]

I've read that the most successful liars are the ones who embellish and distort the truth, not the ones who make up a complete story. I think KK is the first type and PF is the second.

We have no idea how much blood there was and we probably never will know. Perhaps KK is exaggerating to make PF look worse. Same thing with the tooth and the bloody baby toys - those are details guaranteed to turn a jury's stomach against PF, but there's no actual evidence - only the word of one known liar talking about another known liar.

It still seems to me that although it KK has a solid alibi for Thanksgiving Day, there's no actual solid proof of when KB died. I know how I would see it, knowing just what we know now, if I were a juror, but some might see it as 'reasonable doubt'. If you can accept the possibility that KB wasn't actually killed on Thanksgiving Day, then you've opened the door to the possibility that KK was the real killer.

I think much is going to depend on what was said in texts available to LE. I wouldn't be surprised to see challenges to cellphone pings as reliable evidence of where each phone's owner was, meaning even seemingly incriminating texts might not be what they appear to be.

I think the 'bones' of KK's story are probably pretty accurate and I think she's unquestionably put her own 'spin' on what details to include and what to leave out. It's going to be very interesting now to see how PF tries to 'spin' his way out. IMHO, she's better at putting together a coherent story, but he's got a lot of time to think and a lawyer to work with to tighten up his own story.

Great post....and great insight on liars.

jmo

 

[Aydrianna523]

When it comes to cell phone data.
If kk and pf lived near each other it would be more disputable, but...
Their being 700 miles apart, I think they (LE) got their man.

 

[Elley Mae]

I do not think for one split second that kk wanted LE to find any evidence.

She lied to LE when they found her # on pf’s cell phone. They called her and spoke and she lied. She then called her friend who’s car she used and asked her to lie if they called her. Iirc she then got lawyer. It was when she met with LE face to face that she came clean about what she knew.

I think once LE (fbi) showed her her communications with pf she

 

[margarita25]

I've read that the most successful liars are the ones who embellish and distort the truth, not the ones who make up a complete story. I think KK is the first type and PF is the second.

We have no idea how much blood there was and we probably never will know. Perhaps KK is exaggerating to make PF look worse. Same thing with the tooth and the bloody baby toys - those are details guaranteed to turn a jury's stomach against PF, but there's no actual evidence - only the word of one known liar talking about another known liar.

It still seems to me that although it KK has a solid alibi for Thanksgiving Day, there's no actual solid proof of when KB died. I know how I would see it, knowing just what we know now, if I were a juror, but some might see it as 'reasonable doubt'. If you can accept the possibility that KB wasn't actually killed on Thanksgiving Day, then you've opened the door to the possibility that KK was the real killer.

I think much is going to depend on what was said in texts available to LE. I wouldn't be surprised to see challenges to cellphone pings as reliable evidence of where each phone's owner was, meaning even seemingly incriminating texts might not be what they appear to be.

I think the 'bones' of KK's story are probably pretty accurate and I think she's unquestionably put her own 'spin' on what details to include and what to leave out. It's going to be very interesting now to see how PF tries to 'spin' his way out. IMHO, she's better at putting together a coherent story, but he's got a lot of time to think and a lawyer to work with to tighten up his own story.

There’s a saying that “the best lies are based on truth”.

 

[ab01]

So, why didn’t CBI apply luminol when they went in that second time? I would think this would be SP at that stage of investigation if CBI was already involved and it was return visit? Sorry if this has been answered/covered, so many posts.

That’s a good question I’m not sure what their procedures are, would they of only sprayed luminal after they discovered some drops of blood? I’m not sure how likely it is to just start spraying luminal on everything? Maybe that’s normal procedure and they should have. I’m sure they now wish they had.. moo

 

[enelram]

So, why didn’t CBI apply luminol when they went in that second time? I would think this would be SP at that stage of investigation if CBI was already involved and it was a second visit from LE? Sorry if this has been answered/covered, so many posts.

IF this goes to trial, the defense will be ALL over this and it will
be a HUGE effort to overcome for DA. IE- planted evidence.

 

[margarita25]

KB's family were the first to find the blood, fwiw.

Sad fact.

jmo

If they could see it, then CBI should have been able to see it, MOO. They’re trained investigators!

 

[Inthedetails]

I do not think for one split second that kk wanted LE to find any evidence.

She lied to LE when they found her # on pf’s cell phone. They called her and spoke and she lied. She then called her friend who’s car she used and asked her to lie if they called her. Iirc she then got lawyer. It was when she met with LE face to face that she came clean about what she knew.

I think once LE (fbi) showed her her communications with pf she

IIRC, her friend said KK called her to tell her LE would be contacting her about the car, but that KK did not instruct her what to say to LE.

But, yes, I agree with everything else. KK had many, many opportunities to contact LE without "leaving blood" for them to find.

jmo

 

[ajaylee]

There’s a saying that “the best lies are based on truth”.

Yes, thank you, that's the saying I was trying to remember!