CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #42 *ARREST*

[NCTeacher]

We learned much about this early in the investigation from CB media interviews and MSM news quotes from family. Please see the Media Thread for this case-- it's a treasure trove!

For years, KB was living under false hope that she and PF would be purchasing their own ranch, and marrying. Engagement was not a joke to KB, but it sure was to PF. PF cited cattle market price decline for dragging his feet, and KB eventually purchased her own place.

IMO, PF was very comfortable living with SF, and had no intention of budging. KB had no intention of living with her MIL, and why would she want to. Yes, finance arguments a given under these circumstances.

Seattle, I am aware of ALL of this. I generally have a good knowledge of cases before I comment on them. One exception to your comment: KB wasn't under this impression for "years" in January 2017, it was only months. Which leads me back to my point:

It was AWFULLY early in their relationship to be at a point of having such a serious financial conversation that someone reportedly put a gun to his/her head. Obviously, after a period of months, we are not talking about serious financial concerns such as: divorce, taking someone's livelihood (property, retirement, inheritance), financing college for the children (there weren't any yet), or rearing children.

In other words, I'm doubting the veracity of these claims. I don't think this happened at all. KB strikes me as a mature, grounded, driven person who was not prone to emotional outbursts over finances with a man-child.

 

[BingoBongo]

No, I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. Any of it. He did not snap. KB's murder WAS PLANNED. It is true that many murders are the result of people whose emotions are fried, and prior to killing, may've toyed with the idea---but this case is NOT one of those cases. PF was not "toying" with the idea, he was soliciting it with the expectation of it being carried out. He is a diabolical human being who solicited KB's murder at least three times between September 23rd and October 21st with the expectation that he would get a phone call from KK that the deed was done. He was not at a breaking point and just happened to boil over--he is a cold, calculating murderer.

Maybe I am not expressing it correctly...we have KKL's word that he solicited her 3 times. I believe that is probably true.

We have her word that she took him up on that, but didn't follow through. I believe that is probably true.

Based on is action, I believe he is cold, somewhat calculating (he's not smart enough to be THAT calculating), and I believe him to be the sole murderer.

All based on what I've read in the various docs.

The manner in which he chose to murder indicates to me that it was violent, extremely violent. That means rage.

Rage isn't cold. He was white hot when he did this. And I don't think, until the moment he made that choice while in her home, he had planned on it happening that exact day.

Based on KK's rendition, he had thought about it for a while, thought about various means, didn't really want to do it himself (for many reasons most likely), but got tired of waiting for KK to obey him. Something happened that made him decide that was the day.

 

[NCTeacher]

I thought PF told CB the whole story about Kelsey holding the gun to her head as an explanation as to why he had it. Isn't that what she said? Imo

I've heard that as a rumor, but I haven't seen it confirmed.

 

[MsBetsy]

So I have no idea how KB was actually killed and I’m just wondering would a cleanup from a gun shot wound be less laborious than that of a blunt trauma killing? Would that take a shorter time to clean up say 3-4 hours?

It depends on the kind of gun and where and how many times a person was hit. I would think a shotgun wound to the head would be pretty bloody.
But that's not what happened here anyway.

 

[MsBetsy]

I've heard that as a rumor, but I haven't seen it confirmed.

I thought I read it in the wrongful death suit. It was one of the things CB said that PF told her to mislead her. She claimed that he had her gun and keys, leaving her unable to defend herself. The story of her holding the gun to her head was his excuse, I thought. Imo

 

[NCTeacher]

Maybe I am not expressing it correctly...we have KKL's word that he solicited her 3 times. I believe that is probably true.

We have her word that she took him up on that, but didn't follow through. I believe that is probably true.

Based on is action, I believe he is cold, somewhat calculating (he's not smart enough to be THAT calculating), and I believe him to be the sole murderer.

All based on what I've read in the various docs.

The manner in which he chose to murder indicates to me that it was violent, extremely violent. That means rage.

Rage isn't cold. He was white hot when he did this. And I don't think, until the moment he made that choice while in her home, he had planned on it happening that exact day.

Based on KK's rendition, he had thought about it for a while, thought about various means, didn't really want to do it himself (for many reasons most likely), but got tired of waiting for KK to obey him. Something happened that made him decide that was the day.

I really do see your point/angle on this, you don't need to keep explaining it. You are saying because of the manner in which he killed her, that he was somehow prompted to killing her that day (as opposed to, I dunno, the following week?). I agree that violent beatings tend to be tied to emotions, but the reality is that is not always the case. I think he hated KB and wanted her to suffer, and that's why he chose to kill her that way.

 

[margarita25]

Here’s another question—-

If we met KK on the street would we ever suspect? This is what always gets me.

(Double shudder)

She’s stupid but she sure is evil.

—-

ETA:
More on this, I read upstream somewhere that perhaps maybe some might be interpreting the discussion of this woman as exoneration of PF and if so no way; it’s just like SP and the discussion of BR—we already knooowww RP is a monster...same thing here, we already know PF is a monster. I’m thinking she is too.

—-

ETA2: I’m getting really creeped out thinking about this, this evil breed of woman that comes with coffee and smiles...

 

[heartgoesout]

Who is this defendant that showed up on 11/22 Thanksgiving Day? Who who who?

From Sam Kraemer courtroom Tweets “May says she knows about a defendant showing up to her house on Thanksgiving. I’m assuming that’s Kenney, since Patrick lives with her.” @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

 

[Artis]

What I would like to know is if they tested her friend's gun to see if it had been fired recently since it was "missing" a bullet? Just askin'.

Yeah. I've never owned a gun (though I'm pro 2nd) but the friend said it had 8 rounds in the clip and nothing chambered. Then it has 6 in the clip and one in the chamber and, I assume, it gets like that because it's been fired.

 

[Mercedes]

I took dictation in an office setting...Gregg. However, difference between mundane business meetings, letters, and really trying to catch every nuance in testimony and to watch all of the players in a court room. Difference between documenting and reporting.

Gregg, Diamond Jubilee.

 

[MsBetsy]

I noticed that too, and thought it odd. What I came up with is that maybe KK specified that she bought an "aluminum" bat for her abandoned attempt to murder KB, but that PF used a "wooden" bat, so she couldn't be seen as providing the murder weapon (?)

Maybe he changed his mind and used the wooden bat so he could burn it. It's harder to destroy an aluminum one. Imo

 

[NCTeacher]

I thought I read it in the wrongful death suit. It was one of the things CB said that PF told her to mislead her. She claimed that he had her gun and keys, leaving her unable to defend herself. Imo

It could be there, I know I read it originally from a source that can't be cited on WS---and so I don't remember if I read it on that document or not.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

ITA. This case is the most convoluted case I've ever followed. People are acting like it is simple, when two weeks ago the majority on here thought there was no way that KK was more involved than just getting the phone and bringing it back to Idaho. The thought of her cleaning up a blood bath would've been absurd and not conforming to Occam's Razor.

I thought she helped clean up. I was shocked at first that he had a side piece. Because it's baffling how he hooked KB in the first place. I thought he had a dude friend take KB' s phone and send the fake messages. But I had no doubt she helped clean up,after her existence was revealed. Like I knew the 'false' ping,was not a 'false' ping.
MOO

 

[BingoBongo]

I really do see your point/angle on this, you don't need to keep explaining it. You are saying because of the manner in which he killed her, that he was somehow prompted to killing her that day (as opposed to, I dunno, the following week?). I agree that violent beatings tend to be tied to emotions, but the reality is that is not always the case. I think he hated KB and wanted her to suffer, and that's why he chose to kill her that way.

Why would he want her to suffer...because of his violent emotions.

But yes, thank you, that's exactly what I am so lamely trying to say. Something happened to make him want to become satan that day, as opposed to the following day, next week, or waiting on KK.

 

[MassGuy]

I think KK helped Patrick.

If the security camera didn't pick up Patrick leaving with the black bag and didn't record KK entering/exiting Kelsey's apartment to clean it, the camera might not have picked up KK entering/exiting Kelsey's apartment on Nov 22nd.

KK knew about very specific details such as how the body bag was set on the ground near the car. That doesn't seem like a significant detail Patrick would have thought to share with KK. I think KK saw this happen. That's how KK knew this very specific, but insignificant detail.

Unless we see evidence that KK somehow snuck into Colorado, I’m completely convinced that PF committed this murder the way he allegedly told KK.

He’s the one seen entering Kelsey’s house, after he last claimed to have seen her.

Witnesses and phone records, put her in Idaho at that time.

I believe she’s a liar.

I believe it’s likely that she wanted Kelsey dead.

I believe she’s a capable of murder.

But if she ain’t there, she ain’t there.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

There was another phone, from Idaho, that was not identified. It pinged twice but no name was connected to it, that was revealed.

Like someone went with KK from Idaho?

 

[BingoBongo]

Here’s another question—-

If we met KK on the street would we ever suspect? This is what always gets me.

(Double shudder)

She’s stupid but she sure is evil

And, she's a nurse! Truly frightening!

 

[Noharg]

DBM

 

[ab01]

Who is this defendant that showed up on 11/22 Thanksgiving Day? Who who who?

From Sam Kraemer courtroom Tweets “May says she knows about a defendant showing up to her house on Thanksgiving. I’m assuming that’s Kenney, since Patrick lives with her.” @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

he has since clarified that he assumed wrong and it was most likely that May was referring to PF

 

[k-mac]

Yes, they'll want to. Will they be able to is another matter.

It could be that because PF is such an obvious lying angry dirtbag that so many are certain about the efficacy of LE and the prosecution but I really don't get that. They're humans and most humans are average and make errors. From my perspective (whatever that's worth), decisions on charges and plea deals were made too quickly, before all of the ducks were in a row. That could have been to get baby K the hell out of there, which I could understand, to a degree. She had to be gotten out of their control but this plea deal was rushed. MOO.

agree
it was rushed.
they discovered KKs phone pinged at KBs condo 24th. they had her there without her version of events.