CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #45*ARREST*

[Artis]

Yah attacking KB would be idiotic! I'm not sure how succesfull the defense will be at attacking KK additionally, without implicating PF, to me its a slippery slope to go down that road as well bc there is already so much evidence tying them together.....MOO

IMO, no way in hell will they dare try to trash Kelsey. As for KK, the only thing that I see they can do with her to is say the murder was her idea, that he didn't solicit her, or that it was a mutually conceived goal. Unless there are texts proving he solicited her, they may convince the jury of that but what good would it do him? I can't see any. Even if he were found not guilty on solicitation, he's still going to be found guilty of murder and will go away for life.

 

[MyBelle]

What do you think happened after he drugged her?

She slept and he took the baby on errands so he could be captured by video, took her to his family's TG dinner and said KB was too exhausted from the night before to attend. We still don't know where PF and the baby spent that night but it won't surprise me if it was at KB's.

JMO

 

[Noharg]

I'm really curious about KB helping PF with the cattle the night before PF and then her going to pick up medicine for his ulcer. Why ask her to do that? He must have had some ranch hand or ranching buddy he could have asked instead. Was this designed to cause her to be really exhausted on TG day? Maybe he was planning on telling Ma that KB couldn't make it to TG dinner because she was too tired? Maybe he knew she'd act weird when she got really tired out and he was counting on that. In my opinion, KB helping him like this shows that in her mind they are still together. Just seems weird to me. MOO.
Edited for spelling

MOO is PF planned to murder her that night. Maybe it worked out that KB had her vehicle which he had not planned on. Not knowing what to do with her vehicle, he aborted the plan. Just a theory. We have so many!

 

[Dave F.]

Here is a link to a bunch of farmers discussing Hay building up moisture, molding and turning black under plastic tarps:
(sorry, I couldn't find any blog site for hay under plastic totes)
Bale moisture under plastic tarp - Alfalfa/Hay

 

[MyBelle]

Which drugs were used?

KK already testified that she brought coffee with sleeping meds to KB and it didn't work because KB didn't drink it?

So who used Ambien or Valium or _____? (Alprazolam aka Xanax?) Ambien Zolpidem/Xanax aka Alprazolam (most benzos) are so bitter anyone would gag if it was placed in food/drink? Its not like in movies. They would cause vomiting which may lead to aspiration on vomit but unlikely.

Only Barbiturates would cause the brain and respiratory system to shut down, not ambien/alprazolam/benzos? Did KK have authority to obtain barbiturates? Unlikely, only end of life cancer docs can r/x them.

If KK tried Sekonol or Phenobarbital which are end of life drugs for terminal illness how could she have obtained them? There is a strict medical FDA register to obtain those, plus the doctor who rx'd them would be backed by a pharmacy who actually dispensed them? One would need an FDA license number. There are VERY strict protocols in place.

Benzos/Ambien/Xanax drugs are disgustingly bitter and taste gross. KB would have tasted the bitterness in her coffee. They do not kill a person, only severe vomiting/hangover symptoms for very good reasons.

We understand from KK's testimony that PF blindfolded KB and then bashed her brains in with a baseball bat.

Why would KK jeopardize her own testimony by LYING to CBI/LE about drugging KB until PF got to her home and beat her to death?

MOO

BBM. Not true.

KK claimed she brought coffee to KB but told LE she did not place drugs in it.

 

[oviedo]

I didn't say anything about her being in Colorado on the 22nd or question that it's rock solid that PF was there. I'm not questioning the known evidence and not discounting or making up any facts. I didn't take issue with any timelines or phone records. I'm talking about her degree of involvement in being an accessory after the fact. Perhaps further investigation might have uncovered that information without relying on a plea deal to get it. That's all.

We will never know now and WS is LE friendly so I will continue to trust that they analyzed the entire case and proceeded in the best manner to obtain justice for our dear KB. IMO

 

[ab01]

Yah I’m not sure there is anyway that defense can put blame on kk to take it away from PF. There is too much already substantiated circumstantial evidence that ties him in too. If you are to convince a jury that kk committed the murder, then you are asking them to disregard all the evidence that ties PF to the crime as well. I just don’t think they will be able to come up with reasonable doubt. Unless the defense comes up with some huge bombshell of evidence, but I’m not sure what that could be. There’s much more evidence than a simple he said she said in this case imo. It may have started with a she said investigation, but imo the things kk has claimed have been verified by LE.

 

[Artis]

I think they were taking some joy in playing with KB, knowing her fate at their hands.

Could be because these types of personalities get off on duping people. The story still seems a little odd, though, because of the burner phone. Why go to that trouble when you're planning on someone being killed? Could be sheer dumbassery considering they gave thought to a burner phone for that but not when it was most important. They wanted to fool Kelsey but forgot their own phones and movements could be tracked when Kelsey was actually murdered and they destroyed evidence?

 

[MemPat]

Dear Lord, I'm going to try and rely on my memory, but as I remember, KBs condo was only 750+/- square feet. PF, who is over 6 feet tall was swingin a bat in a tiny living room, with a tiny kitchen next to it and staircase to the second floor. His reach alone as he swung down or baseball style at tiny KB, was enough to cast spatter everywhere. She may not have been trying to get away because honestly, with a reach like he had, she had nowhere TO escape. Ergo, the gruesome scene KK walked into. And she said it took 3-4 hours to clean it up? Dried blood? <modsnip: no MSM to support> Nope! No way. Go back and look at the pics of the living room from the steps. She couldn't have reached half of the cast off. Left clues for the LE, my tushie! Not to mention, were there gashes in any of the walls from violent bat swinging????
MOO, MOO

Remember that LE's crime scene people took a ladder into the condo and came out with something large and flat that was covered.

Would you be surprised if that was a piece of the ceiling exhibiting blood spatter?

I look forward to seeing results of the Luminol-like product on the upper walls and ceiling.

 

[Artis]

Maybe the defense was attempting to account for the blood being there, and Slater had no choice but to acknowledge what it was he saw in the trash bin. Imo

Yes, I think you're right. No reason to bring it up, otherwise.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, they have a single video clip of his car near where she was picked up. Like with this case, LE had much more evidence we were not privy to. There's no way he will get anything less than LWOP, and I think the same is probably true of PF. These were both extremely brutal murders without a body. Thankfully, for Lingling's family's sake, no one is questioning whether or not she's dead, anyway, since it appears they will never find her body unless he decides to trade her location to save himself from the DP.

The trial in LingLing's case won't be for several months but it also involves a kidnapping. This case does not involve a kidnapping.

It is impossible to predict what a jury will decide.

JMO

 

[Herat]

Ignore if already discussed, but does anyone think maybe Kelsey was barely alive in the container and the missing bullet was used to finish her off when KK got there? Ugh.

Nope

No chance

 

[MemPat]

Could be because these types of personalities get off on duping people. The story still seems a little odd, though, because of the burner phone. Why go to that trouble when you're planning on someone being killed? Could be sheer dumbassery considering they gave thought to a burner phone for that but not when it was most important. They wanted to fool Kelsey but forgot their own phones and movements could be tracked when Kelsey was actually murdered and they destroyed evidence?

Remember, them weren't no geniuses, Artis.

 

[nwmouse]

The defense doesn't have to present evidence, she just has to create doubt and KK is giving her plenty to work with.

I think KK is attempting to create reasonable doubt with her stories to benefit her lover, PF and for herself.

The defense won't have to work too hard to convince a jury that PF didn't murder KB in the townhouse with a ball bat using scented candles to distract her because none of that story has been corroborated and can't be corroborated because KK threw away the "evidence." Where is that tooth? Only KK knows. Where is the proof the murder took place on Nov. 22? Just because KK said she was told by PF it took place on the 22nd, doesn't make it true. All it does it give KK an alibi because she wasn't there until the 24th.

I doubt it will be enough to totally exonerate PF of all the charges and I don't believe any poster here has suggested PF will be totally exonerated.

JMO

I see no doubt in this case. The only doubts here are those you have voiced that PF will possibly walk free.

PF beat 103 pound KB, the mother of his little girl to death --- whilst she was blindfolded --- with a baseball bat.

KK, although she is a disgusting human being, corroborates this theory.
So does blood spatter, <modsnip: no MSM to support> and other forensic evidence.

I'm pretty sure PF's defense will be grasping at straws because all the evidence points to PF as the vicious, murderous mastermind he is.

I don't think the DA/LE/CBI need KB's tooth, the proof will be in the blood/brain spatter, which will be proven by mitochondrial DNA etc that the DA have.

Plus they have KK's testimony. Although she's a rotten human being, she has turned state's witness, filled in some blanks, and I doubt she'd lie because her only focus is copping a plea deal, based on evidence, to save her own skin.

KB's tooth has maybe 1% bearing in this case.

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

We will never know now and WS is LE friendly so I will continue to trust that they analyzed the entire case and proceeded in the best manner to obtain justice for our dear KB. IMO

We saw the great work done by the CBI and FBI, in the Watts case.

The detail in that discovery document was incredible, and answered just about all the questions we had.

Their investigation was nothing short of top notch.

I expect a lot of the same here, especially in relation to cell phone data, and forensic evidence.

If you have this type of evidence, these are the people you want recovering it, and analyzing it.

We don’t know the half of what they have.

It’s there though.

 

[scmom]

She slept and he took the baby on errands so he could be captured by video, took her to his family's TG dinner and said KB was too exhausted from the night before to attend. We still don't know where PF and the baby spent that night but it won't surprise me if it was at KB's.

JMO

So you don't think Kelsey was murdered on Thanksgiving day? What do you think happened to her?

 

[MyBelle]

Much of what KK has told police about the crime scene has already been corroborated.
MOO

How so? LE knew blood had been found before they ever interviewed KK. All that was corroborated was that KK was in the townhouse. They haven't corroborated the amount of blood, the tooth, the ball bat because KK threw away the evidence. Which is why LE is so focused on the landfill. They are trying to corroborated KK's version of events.

JMO

 

[nwmouse]

BBM. Not true.

KK claimed she brought coffee to KB but told LE she did not place drugs in it.

Perhaps, but by your own posts here, you say KK is a proven liar and therefore her testimony is not worth too much in putting PF away for LWOP.

So did she lie about the drugs? I say that she may have tried drugging KB's coffee one time, per HER TESTIMONY, but it was an epic fail.

MOO

 

[kkdj]

I think no murder charges would be even more b.s. These are two different cases. There was a secretly video-taped confession in the Stern case. The friend was initially arrested for felony murder. As part of the deal is pleading down to lesser charges that still include conspiracy, robbery, etc. And he still may only be sentenced to 10 years.

In this case, the most they could've had against anyone was tampering, until KK talked. She did not know that but the state did.

I don't think she will do any time, BTW. Or not much. It's pathetic but necessary, IMO.

I doubt she'll do time too. This is her first offense. (what a whopper tho!) Plus she's the state's witness. She'll be on probation for a long time I think.
This case with what the two of them, PF and KKL did has literally given me nightmares!

 

[oviedo]

No. This is wrong.

I'm being redundant, but it’s important to point out the fact that the murder timeline, isn’t contingent upon what KK has to say.

PF claimed he last saw Kelsey when they exchanged the baby outside her home.

He lied.

A neighbor’s security camera captured PF returning to the house, and spending atleast two hours there.

From this point on, Kelsey’s phone began acting strangely, and Kelsey was never heard from again.

He contacted KK in Idaho, and told her that “she had a mess to clean up.”

This is verified by phone records.

If the account of a liar is supported by evidence, then that account can be believed.

I’m going to leave it up to you @MassGuy and the other analytical thinkers to discuss the facts of this case and I have employed the ignore option so I can view intelligent posts based on evidence or reasoned supposition IMO and add my input accordingly- to be clear our dear KB is dead at the hand of PF and KK knew and discussed his desires with others and cleaned up the mess - source Affidavit all JMO and based on the Affidavit

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

When the FBI arrived at Kelsey's duplex the night before Patrick was arrested, they had to borrow the fire department's ladder to remove some evidence (reference=twitter posts by news reporters who were watching the FBI/CBI leave Kelsey's apartment).

There should have been blood splatter all over the ceiling if Kelsey was beaten with a bat. How did KK clean the ceiling in that duplex when the duplex didn't have a ladder.

There's a vaulted ceiling which Krystal couldn't have reached by standing on a chair. See the photos with the couch in the following link. Without a ladder, KK couldn't reach that ceiling to clean it, yet LE (during first search) and Kelsey's family didn't see blood on the ceiling.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/269-E-Lake-Ave-Woodland-Park-CO-80863/62719652_zpid/