CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[oviedo]

Apologies for more graphic imagery. I believe there were high ceilings - and blood on the ceiling. With a high ceiling, a weapon like a bat can also be wielded overhand like an axe. Seems like that kind of blow would be more likely to spatter blood upwards.

Still, I envision him in a rage. I tried randomly swinging a soft foam roller around my living room, which is bigger than KB's, and it's hard to do without hitting the wall or a piece of furniture, even if only a glancing blow.

I was just reviewing the Affidavit again and the only descriptions of the blood were from KK with the exception of the results of the bathroom testing CBI did - para 27 which includes blood on the ceiling. I have thought for some time that he attacked her while she was in the bathroom - otherwise how in the world could blood be on that ceiling? I thought I heard other blood was found on the wood floor but can't seem to find that in the Affidavit. Even the blood she told them was on the fireplace was not confirmed in the Affidavit, just that the fireplace she described matched a picture they had. para 70. If there wasn't blood everywhere as she described, why would she embellish that aspect? JMO

 

[susiQ]

I see the bat being used in a chopping motion, like an axe, not like swinging on a ball.

I always have a hard time hitting the 'like' button with these graphic visual posts. No offence. It's just heart breaking to think of how this went down ;(

 

[ab01]

I see the bat being used in a chopping motion, like an axe, not like swinging on a ball.

That may be in fact the case:

There is a lot less force in this action a lot less lethal of a blow.

Thus it would take many more hits to cause fatal injury.

I'm not sure teeth would be disslogged from this motion either. If in fact they were.

Gruesome way to die no matter how it happened.

 

[PrairieWind]

Iirc, she took the bags to the ranchette to burn along with the tote they picked up at Nash Ranch.

Thank you.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I believe that was stated yes, I'l see if i can find it and link it here


Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

In regards to the search of the Frazee ranch:

Slater said he didn’t see anything charred in the dirt there. He just noticed the discoloration. FBI evidence team was present. Kenney also pointed out a small red plastic gas can & totes similar to what she said Frazee used to transport Kelsey’s body.

2:46 p.m.

2:45 p.m.

At Frazee’s property, Slater said something caught his eye. In Afghanistan, he says he was trained to detect where IEDs, improvised explosive device, was. He noticed a distinct discoloration in an area that Kenney eventually pointed out as the burn area. The dirt was darker there than nearby.

2:42 p.m.

They went to Frazee’s property first that day. Kenney showed investigators where the burn was. New exhibit (#12) is a photo of an aerial view with a pin indicating where the burn area was. Again these site visits were Dec. 21. Slater says Kenney had no difficulty remembering where the burn area & Nash Ranch were.

I notice the term Totes, could this why there is confusion on what kind of tote was used? Maybe one was a bag tote,another a hard tote?

 

[Tora Gahan]

My apartment is slightly bigger than KB's, but 1 bedroom and 1 floor. I also have a baby about the same age. Adjusting for the extra room and tighter quarters, the attack is still possible as stated, to me. May cause more damage to another person and on any items around the house though. All I can think is, however it was done, was intense. (My mind prevents me from going too far into that venture, given the few personal similarities) Can't picture how much of a mess it would have left behind, even with the given 3-4 hour cleanup. Maybe KB had minimal decor, and mainly baby items? Just sharing, not much input TBH

 

[Gardenista]

Yes, she was clear she put all the bags outside beside KB's car and
then went an got the car she came in, drove it up and put the bags in it to take to PF's where they were burned.

I have not seen it specifically stated she put the bags beside KB's car. I don't see that wording in the timeline either. Can you please post a link?

 

[SandyQLS]

I have been bothered about the word "opportunity" used by KK regarding PF telling KK when to kill KB:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV26s26 seconds ago
On Nov. 3, Kenney was with family in Reno when Frazee called again with another “opportunity”. She told Slater she looked into airfare, but decided she couldn’t do it. @KOAA

Alexis Dominguez KRDO‏ @alexisdomm 28s29 seconds ago
Nov. 3rd Krystal and Frazee spoke on the phone. Nov. 21st Krystal and Frazee spoke again. Krystal says he asked her what Krystal was doing on Thanksgiving. #kelseyberreth#PatrickFrazee

Both tweets are from Thread 39 page 78.

I have had trouble understanding Why there needs to be an "opportunity" given the lifestyles and work schedules of PF, KB, and baby K. Per KK, the "opportunity" is proposed by PF to KK although it would seem that KK's work schedule and child custody arrangements, plus living out of state, would be the determining factor as to "opportunity."

KK makes her 3 solo trips and failed murder attempts Sept. 23, October 15, and October 21. KB disappears 11/22. If KB had her period on 11/22 with tampons in her bathroom trash, then she likely also had her period 10/21 and 9/23 ? Is KB's period the "opportunity" ?

I had already wanted to know if LE is testing the blood found outside the bathroom to see if it is menstrual blood that KK planted.

 

[oviedo]

I see the bat being used in a chopping motion, like an axe, not like swinging on a ball.

or swinging up like a golf swing - Affidavit para 66 presumably several teeth were dislodged but she only found the one - is there a possibility one was missed if there were several and CBI found it? JMO

 

[ajaylee]

I was just reviewing the Affidavit again and the only descriptions of the blood were from KK with the exception of the results of the bathroom testing CBI did - para 27 which includes blood on the ceiling. I have thought for some time that he attacked her while she was in the bathroom - otherwise how in the world could blood be on that ceiling? I thought I heard other blood was found on the wood floor but can't seem to find that in the Affidavit. Even the blood she told them was on the fireplace was not confirmed in the Affidavit, just that the fireplace she described matched a picture they had. para 70. If there wasn't blood everywhere as she described, why would she embellish that aspect? JMO

Yes, blood was found on the hardwood floor. It had seeped between the planks; that's why they missed it the first time. They took up a section of floor, IIRC.

The only problem I have with the murder taking place in the bathroom is the candle scenario. It seems to me that KB might have balked if PF said "Let's play 'guess the scent'". Come into the bathroom."

OTOH, I think it's sadly possible that his first blow didn't kill her and she moved around the condo as he beat her.

 

[ilovechili]

The only thing I can add: Although I have never lived an a small apartment or condo outside of a college dorm room. Is that it seems there would not be a lot of area to get away and shield ones self.

Especially if one didn't even know an attack was about to happen.

Also a normal wooden bat is roughly 28-36" and it can be swung in an aprox 4'6"-5' radius.

As long as their is 5'-6' feet between swinging a bat and an object I think that would be enough room.

If you think about swinging at a blindfolded human (shudders) I think as long as they were position 6' from another 5-6' foot tall object, such as a wall or lamp etc it wouldn't be very difficult to swing and make solid deadly contact. Its certainly plausible .MOO

Sorry for the graphic imagery.

I am trying to stay away from graphic imagery myself, not one that likes reading it nor saying it. I am not saying it cannot be done--I get it is not impossible--I am saying I cannot reconcile it with KK's account of blood on three walls and blood everywhere it was found and the clean-up time and such things. Can it be done yes, the person could be down, etc. I agree the small space would make an easier hit but I cannot imagine the clean up and the number of things one would have to clean or dispose of, even furniture to truly have a clean scene. Add to that where one could go sideways with some other details, including about her with a bat, then him, guns, etc. I just think there is more. Or more than we at least know. Not a bit of corroboration about any bat, at least that we are aware of with regard to PF...

Most also picture him in a rage and that to me says he is not just going to go once, so carefully controlled in a small area and then stop and cool down.

Hopefully he stayed away from where the baby was but when one takes the square footage away from that room and the bathroom, it is not much area, I agree, and therein lies my problem with patio doors, windows, lamps, whatever. Appliances. KK put towels on the kitchen window... Did they have to fix anything? Did someone go back? At minimum there had to be more damage I would think and a lot of items with spray that are not easily cleaned. It would help if there were anything to corroborate this possible KK or PF tale of a bat but there is not. Maybe LE and the prosecution have knowledge, we don't though.

Again, not saying it cannot be done but it does not square with KK's description of the scene and many of her other details... Sitting in such as space makes it pretty difficult to imagine... It either was not as bloody as made to sound like, and more, etc., or who did all of this clean-up and disposal in this amount of time and sheer number of items it had to be... Or it was done differently or clean-up took longer than stated... Arghh... Or there was some help doing some or all of these things....

At minimum lies are being told here by one or both her and him and something is missing.

imo of course. i am going to take a break and give others one. frustrated...

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes.

Alexis Dominguez KRDO‏ @alexisdomm
On #PatrickFrazee's property investigators found two black totes which Krystal said resembled the one #KelseyBerreth's body was in.

From:

Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #39 *ARREST*

Thanks for that, it's been hectic trying to keep up with all these tweets LOL

 

[ajaylee]

I am trying to stay away from graphic imagery myself, not one that likes reading it nor saying it. I am not saying it cannot be done--I get it is not impossible--I am saying I cannot reconcile it with KK's account of blood on three walls and blood everywhere it was found and the clean-up time and such things. Can it be done yes, the person could be down, etc. I agree the small space would make an easier hit but I cannot imagine the clean up and the number of things one would have to clean or dispose of, even furniture to truly have a clean scene. Add to that where one could go sideways with some other details, including about her with a bat, then him, guns, etc. I just think there is more. Or more than we at least know. Not a bit of corroboration about any bat, at least that we are aware of with regard to PF...

Most also picture him in a rage and that to me says he is not just going to go once, so carefully controlled in a small area and then stop and cool down.

Hopefully he stayed away from where the baby was but when one takes the square footage away from that room and the bathroom, it is not much area, I agree, and therein lies my problem with patio doors, windows, lamps, whatever. Appliances. KK put towels on the kitchen window... Did they have to fix anything? Did someone go back? At minimum there had to be more damage I would think and a lot of items with spray that are not easily cleaned. It would help if there were anything to corroborate this possible KK or PF tale of a bat but there is not. Maybe LE and the prosecution have knowledge, we don't though.

Again, not saying it cannot be done but it does not square with KK's description of the scene and many of her other details... Sitting in such as space makes it pretty difficult to imagine... It either was not as bloody as made to sound like, and more, etc., or who did all of this clean-up and disposal in this amount of time and sheer number of items it had to be... Or it was done differently or clean-up took longer than stated... Arghh... Or there was some help doing some or all of these things....

At minimum lies are being told here by one or both her and him and something is missing.

imo of course. i am going to take a break and give others one. frustrated...

It is a small apartment and you can be much faster cleaning a stranger's place than your own home, partly because at someone else's place, there are no distractions.

She probably wiped the walls and floors with a bleach solution. If you think about it, that would take hours, but not days. She wiped surfaces - I believe Slater said he could see the film on some things like the TV, where it was evident she'd done a quick and sloppy cleanup.

She's been a nurse for a while, so she wouldn't be dealing with the gag factor that would have had me vomiting every 5 minutes. It wasn't exactly clear to me, but IIRC, PF specifically told her to clean Baby K's toys but KK said she tossed them. I hope PF wasn't actually suggesting she clean the toys for Baby K to play with again.

 

[Hatch]

I have been bothered about the word "opportunity" used by KK regarding PF telling KK when to kill KB:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV26s26 seconds ago
On Nov. 3, Kenney was with family in Reno when Frazee called again with another “opportunity”. She told Slater she looked into airfare, but decided she couldn’t do it. @KOAA

Alexis Dominguez KRDO‏ @alexisdomm 28s29 seconds ago
Nov. 3rd Krystal and Frazee spoke on the phone. Nov. 21st Krystal and Frazee spoke again. Krystal says he asked her what Krystal was doing on Thanksgiving. #kelseyberreth#PatrickFrazee

Both tweets are from Thread 39 page 78.

I have had trouble understanding Why there needs to be an "opportunity" given the lifestyles and work schedules of PF, KB, and baby K. Per KK, the "opportunity" is proposed by PF to KK although it would seem that KK's work schedule and child custody arrangements, plus living out of state, would be the determining factor as to "opportunity."

KK makes her 3 solo trips and failed murder attempts Sept. 23, October 15, and October 21. KB disappears 11/22. If KB had her period on 11/22 with tampons in her bathroom trash, then she likely also had her period 10/21 and 9/23 ? Is KB's period the "opportunity" ?

I had already wanted to know if LE is testing the blood found outside the bathroom to see if it is menstrual blood that KK planted.

Interesting theory IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Cop testifies woman told police Colorado man beat fiancee to death with a bat


"Kenney told police that Frazee had wrapped a sweater around Berreth's head, telling her he wanted her to guess the scent of candles as a ruse, before beating her to death with a baseball bat and stashing her body on a ranch. After she cleaned the house, Kenney said she went with Frazee to retrieve Berreth's body and watched as Frazee burned it on his property along with the wooden bat, Slater said."

So per KK via Slater

Thanks for that ab01! Lord these 2 <PF and KK> are keeping us busy trying to follow along with their 'stories'.

 

[SandyQLS]

I was just reviewing the Affidavit again and the only descriptions of the blood were from KK with the exception of the results of the bathroom testing CBI did - para 27 which includes blood on the ceiling. I have thought for some time that he attacked her while she was in the bathroom - otherwise how in the world could blood be on that ceiling? I thought I heard other blood was found on the wood floor but can't seem to find that in the Affidavit. Even the blood she told them was on the fireplace was not confirmed in the Affidavit, just that the fireplace she described matched a picture they had. para 70. If there wasn't blood everywhere as she described, why would she embellish that aspect? JMO

Not the AW but testimony in the Prelim? Is this what you're looking for?:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV44s45 seconds ago
Slater says CBI agents were able to find areas where blood remained. That includes the fireplace and a nearby wall with a light switch. Again, that matches Kenney’s story. Slater says testing on those samples isn’t complete yet. @KOAA

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Slater says suspected blood splatter was found underneath some chairs. Another photo includes floor boards that have suspected blood splatter between the tongue & grooves. Wasn’t visible to investigators until the floor was pulled up. @KOAA

From Thread 39, pages 96 and 98, respectively.

 

[oviedo]

I checked to see if they filed a transcript of the hearing but not so far. IMO that would clear up a lot of misinformation for us - the Affidavit doesn't address some items that Slater testified to from what I have read. JMO.

 

[ab01]

Thanks for that ab01! Lord these 2 <PF and KK> are keeping us busy trying to follow along with their 'stories'.

Boy if that’s not an understatement. I can’t even fathom how they could go about there daily activities knowing what they had done! There’s a special place for these two, even beyond justice on this earth....moo

 

[ab01]

Not the AW but testimony in the Prelim? Is this what you're looking for?:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV44s45 seconds ago
Slater says CBI agents were able to find areas where blood remained. That includes the fireplace and a nearby wall with a light switch. Again, that matches Kenney’s story. Slater says testing on those samples isn’t complete yet. @KOAA

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Slater says suspected blood splatter was found underneath some chairs. Another photo includes floor boards that have suspected blood splatter between the tongue & grooves. Wasn’t visible to investigators until the floor was pulled up. @KOAA

From Thread 39, pages 96 and 98, respectively.

The underneath some chairs catches my attention a bit:

Did Slater mean on the floor under the chairs?

Or did he mean on the actual underside of the chair like the bottom of it.

If it was on the underside of the chair it’s self, it would almost make me wonder if the blood spatter came up from the floor?

 

[Artis]

At the end of thread #45 there were 2 posts I wanted to respond to. Once again the tote, is it plastic or fabric? I’m honestly tired of trying to figure that out but while I was looking for info on the kind of bat (wood or metal) it was, it said repeatedly BAG. I’ll provide quotes and links below. I don’t “know” personally. This is just what was stated

“That same day, phone records showed that Frazee called his mother and Kenney. Frazee was also seen on surveillance video at his bank with a baby carrier in the passenger seat and the black tote bag in the rear.”

“They both traveled back to Frazee’s home, where he burned the body with gasoline, she said. DA Dan May told ABC News that Frazee's mother, Sheila Frazee, saw the burning black tote bag .”

“After the crime, Frazee joined his family for Thanksgiving dinner before bringing a black tote with Berreth’s body out to Nash Ranch in Fremont County, Kenney said. He put the bag on the top of a stack of hay.”


“After the crime, Frazee joined his family for Thanksgiving dinner before bringing a black tote with Berreth’s body out to Nash Ranch in Fremont County, Kenney said. He put the bag on the top of a stack of hay.”

THE BAT
Frazee and Kenney also burned the baseball bat and trash bags in a horse trough on his Florissant property, Slater said. Kenney told authorities that Frazee had wanted people to believe that Berreth killed herself.

ALL of this info can be taken from this link. I may have missed a few but this is more than enough to say BAG has been mentioned repeatedly and according to KK the bat was wood and they burned it

Patrick Frazee to face trial after preliminary hearing

I found the use of the term "bag" to be confusing, as well. I wasn't sure if it was a black plastic container or a duffel bag (or both). It was the finding of melted plastic that confirmed hard plastic container or box, imo. I didn't look at your link and can't recall if KK said that during the fire the container had burned away or melted before she said she saw the word she used to describe what would have been Kelsey's body.