CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[Auntie Cipation]

The text message sent Thursday night stating PF had returned the gun and that she went shooting is assumed to have been sent by PF.
However, I think the reason it is so confusing is because we have only heard bits and pieces of the text messages and phone calls between Kelsey ( and/or) and her mother.
Slater also stated that CB also told him that Kelsey had said PF returned the gun and she felt safe now. I'm not sure if he indicated whether or not that was contained within the same text, or a phone call, or a different text.
Either way, I'm sure when or if we ever hear about all the communication in context it will probably be more clear. There is reportedly a huge amount of cell phone data we haven't even heard yet. Imo

Agreed on all this. The question for me is whether the message implied that KB went target shooting Wednesday or Thursday. I had earlier presumed it was implying Wednesday, which leaves us wondering if target shooting maybe really happened. But now I'm suspecting the message implies that happened Thursday instead, in which case we know it's complete fiction.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I don't either, I honestly didn't expect that there would be theories about planted menstrual blood in this case......But here we are

I think they would be able to tell the difference between menstrual blood,and bludgeoning blood,from head wounds.
Any forensic experts on here that can answer that?

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

KK claims to have never seen Kelsey's murdered body. I don't believe her.

Same here.

 

[Dave F.]

I'll try to clear up the dilemma of PF's trucks:

The 2008 red Toyota is a standard Tacoma. That truck came in regular cab and extended cab versions. The regular cab is what PF has, which actually has rear seating but it's really cramped. The Toyota extended cab is what most people would call a crew cab.

The ancient Toyota is blue and white, or green and white, or some dark color and white. It has no rear seating space, and is a "compact truck". It has a shell on the back, covering the bed. That is his farrier truck. If it's 1992-1994 vintage, it is not a Tacoma. But in studying the few pictures published, to me it could be a 1996-97 Toyota Tacoma. Looking at the front end only.... the grill. bumper and fender shapes of PF's truck resemble the 2003-2006 Ford Ranger. Toyota dominated the compact truck market in the 1990's, and produced many different versions. I don't recall them using a particular model name or number with any consistency. The 1991, 1993 and 1997-98 series front arrangements most reembled the later Ford Ranger. With all of that said, I lean toward the truck being a 1993, but the odds of me being right are very low. That's why I call it "ancient".

PF also has an older white truck with a standard cab (no back seating area) and a flat bed which has black side beams. I can't tell if it's a Ford or a Dodge, but I'm guessing many of our sleuthers weren't yet born when it was manufactured. That truck is the one he took to the WM transfer station, towing a trailer full of trash.

IMO

 

[GordianKnot]

Good morning. It's really sad and disgusting to see this on the local news every single day Watching the folks sift through GARBAGE 25 feet deep for the possible remains of poor Kelsey. I cannot imagine what her parents and family must be thinking and feeling. Prayers go out to them while this dump search goes forward. I hope they find something for their sake so they can lay her to rest.

We know KB's soul does not reside in that landfill, so there is that.

Having said that, it is the current repository of her physical remains, thanks to that evil moron PF.
I'm certain the searchers are going to find her physical remains.
It's really important that they do so, because Kelsey was a dignified, decent human who deserves so much more than to be consigned to a literal trash heap.

At the very least, KB deserves to have her physical remains returned to her loving parents.
That's the very least she deserves.

As for that evil cretinous PF, I hope that when KB's remains are located, Dan May pays him a personal visit at the jail, looks him in the eye, gives him a smile, and says, "You'll never guess what we found today!"
Then just stands up, turns his back on PF, and walks out of the room without another word.

Some day, hopefully sooner rather than later, when PF dies in prison, I think it would be only fitting for his carcass to be thrown into a black tote thingy, and burned on a trash pile.

Because PF really IS a piece of garbage.
I got no problem w/ him being tossed into a landfill.

All of the Above: JMO.

 

[PommyMommy]

In an earlier thread/post, someone showed a picture of the townhouse and said there was a window which looked out the side, where the land grass was higher. The tote could have been pushed out the window and anyone could have climbed out it. The window as I remember was a large sliding window, but not a sliding door.

If someone saved the townhouse pictures could you please repost it? Thank you.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/269-E-Lake-Ave-Woodland-Park-CO-80863/62719652_zpid/

 

[oviedo]

But this was according to KK, right?

Yes - the Affidavit outlines the blood CBI found in para 27 in the bathroom seems to be the only blood found by LE as outlined unless I missed another reference? JMO

 

[PommyMommy]

Former FBI profiler discusses Patrick Frazee's murder charge

I think this is allowed. It's an interesting read.

Thanks, ohio2013. From the article:

"There are some things that are very clear to me in this," Klismet said. "I believe he's a bald-faced liar, narcissist that is all out for himself."

Based on the evidence that was made public, and assuming it's true, Klismet says Frazee has manipulated his way through life. A large part of the prosecution's case against Frazee is based on testimony from Krystal Kenney, Frazee's ex-girlfriend who was called to help clean up the crime scene.

Klismet watched the video of Frazee walking into court, and he used his experience to tell us about his body language in the courtroom.

"No interest whatsoever in having any contact with anybody -- that's pretty normal, certainly I've seen that plenty of times," Klismet said. "I don't think it indicates any sign of deception."

[...]

"He's perfectly sane, but he's got that personality where he is, in his mind, far more important than anybody else, and so that's how he's going to manifest his personality," Klismet said.

And Frazee's ability to manipulate others is ultimately what got Kenney caught up in the alleged murder.

"Did she fall under his spell? Yes, because apparently she fell in love with him, and for any gal, he's a very good looking guy, and he's got personality, I'm sure," Klismet said. "He can talk his way right through anything."

Klismet believes Kenney's story about leaving clues for investigators to find at the crime scene. Despite being allegedly solicited to murder Kelsey Berreth multiple times, Kenney said she could never go through with it. He says in Kenney's mind, her only way out was to leave a trail of breadcrumbs.

 

[Penny4YourThoughts]

Former FBI profiler discusses Patrick Frazee's murder charge

I think this is allowed. It's an interesting read.

Interesting is right - thanks for sharing. Profiler believes KK left breadcrumbs....

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Late Thanksgiving evening: CB received a text from KB's phone that PF returned her gun and they had gone shooting Thursday night. I believe this text was sent by PF.

MOO

This makes much more sense to me than if PF had implied she had gone shooting Weds. on the otherwise super-busy day.

Now the next question is, how did this lie help PF? At first glance it seems intended to reassure CB that KB is alive and well. But, it conflicts with PF's claims about the last time he saw her (unless the text actually implied she went target shooting without PF? By herself or with someone else?). And it doesn't support any defense theory such as suicide, since the fake text was sent after KB was supposedly safely home from the target shooting. Now if the text had said she had her gun back and was PLANNING to go target shooting, I could see that as a strategic defense move by PF. But not otherwise. IMO

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Thank you for the clarification! That means though that KB told her mom at some point that she did not feel safe around PF, right? Otherwise, why would he text that? I wonder what that was about.

The custody issues is an interesting one. In CO, his chances of getting equal custody were high as they seemed to be sharing the care of the child. When mom was flying, baby was with dad, etc. It seems the baby was with him a lot. And if she moved, he could stand a chance of being awarded primary custody.

Unless there is something we don't know about.

Someone proposed a theory about PF panicking about the relationship and wanting to get out of it, maybe not with a confrontation. It's intriguing. He did not want to face a break up and I think he didn't want to face child custody court action. Why?

I continue to suspect that he had disordered thinking about his child and his relationship. I suspect he was enmeshed with the baby, saw her as his possession and saw her as having no needs or wants aside from his own. So no right to a relationship with her mom.

I think he felt no love for KB, wanted her out of the picture but did not want to share the baby with his ex at all.

And he did not want to risk having a court order giving him less than equal time. Maybe he was so enmeshed and entitled that a court order for equal custody would've enraged him as well - like how dare a court tell him when HE can spend time with his own kid?

That's my feeling as to why he killed KB. But it is weird.

Maybe someone else was knocked up, someone who was more compliant, not an independent woman like Kelsey, someone who would hang on his every word. Someone who would seeth with jealousy over Kelsey. Someone who wanted PF for herself.
That could certainly change the dynamics.
MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

I think they would be able to tell the difference between menstrual blood,and bludgeoning blood,from head wounds.
Any forensic experts on here that can answer that?

Not a forensic expert, but menstrual blood contains mucous and dead endometrial tissue.
MOO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Not a forensic expert, but menstrual blood will contain mucous and dead endometrial tissue.
MOO

I too have always understood that forensics can distinguish menstrual blood from other blood.

 

[GordianKnot]

Thanks, ohio2013. From the article:
And Frazee's ability to manipulate others is ultimately what
got Kenney caught up in the alleged murder.
"Did she fall under his spell? Yes, because apparently she fell in love with him, and for any gal, he's a very good looking guy, and he's got personality, I'm sure," Klismet said. "He can talk his way right through anything."

RSABBMFF:

FALSE.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Maybe, they both had their experience or their apprehensions with custody of his and her children. KKL had already gone through divorce and could have told PF, what to expect (even more problems possibly, as he isn't married).

Like NK did with CW,and Child support cost.
MOO

 

[Noharg]

I too have always understood that forensics can distinguish menstrual blood from other blood.

https://juniperpublishers.com/jfsci/pdf/JFSCI.MS.ID.555760.pdf

I’m all about articles this morning.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Again I do not believe this.Another Frazee lie.

Even if true he gasslighted her into it.
MOO

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Sure enough, that came from her mom:

During the investigation, Berreth’s mother told Slater that Frazee had taken her daughter’s gun because the couple was arguing about finances. During one of those arguments in 2017, Berreth said, “Maybe I would be better off dead,” and pointed the gun to her head.

Patrick Frazee to face trial after preliminary hearing

It's not clear, to me, whether Kelsy told CB that or PF did but I'd think CB would have asked Kelsey about it so it must have been happened. How terribly sad that Kelsey was driven to such despair.

Gasslighted.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Oh ....I think he has a very close attachment to one woman....

Like Norman Bates.
MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

This makes much more sense to me than if PF had implied she had gone shooting Weds. on the otherwise super-busy day.

Now the next question is, how did this lie help PF? At first glance it seems intended to reassure CB that KB is alive and well. But, it conflicts with PF's claims about the last time he saw her (unless the text actually implied she went target shooting without PF? By herself or with someone else?). And it doesn't support any defense theory such as suicide, since the fake text was sent after KB was supposedly safely home from the target shooting. Now if the text had said she had her gun back and was PLANNING to go target shooting, I could see that as a strategic defense move by PF. But not otherwise. IMO

It didn't help him. I think he was just laying the groundwork as in, "If Kelsey and her gun are missing, I don't have the gun..." It does support an intended, staged suicide scenario if you believe he was stupid enough to think that KK wouldn't turn on him, LE wouldn't find the blood evidence, and that nobody would be able to determine when KB was murdered. He (and KK) continued to fake text and call to and from KB's phone through Nov. 25.
MOO