CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[AgeofAquaruis]

I totally agree, but what I replied to was how a forensic expert can deduce how the crime played out by the blood spatter, trajectory and such. Wouldn't an attempt at cleaning destroy that part of the evidence? I understand the blood can still be detected.

Not neccesarily. The Diane Masters case Allen thought he did a great job cleaning up,and it appeared so, until forensics team went in with luminol,etc.

 

[girlhasnoname]

More like a “she said, the evidence says.”

I don’t think there’s even the slightest chance he testifies.

It would be fun to see him destroyed on the stand though.

One of my top 3 Websleuth wishes right now. I'd love to see this defendant take the stand.....

 

[PommyMommy]

Maybe, they both had their experience or their apprehensions with custody of his and her children. KKL had already gone through divorce and could have told PF, what to expect (even more problems possibly, as he isn't married).

Like NK did with CW,and Child support cost.
MOO

In the words of Former FBI Agent, Brad Garrett:

"He's created two worlds and he's decided he's going get rid of one of them because it's now a burden." (On CW)

RSABBMFF:

FALSE.

Couldn't agree more!

 

[ajaylee]

Interesting is right - thanks for sharing. Profiler believes KK left breadcrumbs....

That is an interesting point and I think it might be plausible.

I believe KK's friend, MS, when she said KK said she'd never seen such evil and she was afraid.

I think at some point, KK did start suspecting PF was trying to get her to take ALL of the risks. I think it's possible that by the time she cleaned up the condo, she was starting to be a bit afraid of PF, because she had witnessed what he was capable of. She told a friend that she was done with him, and I think she meant that, at least at the time she said it. I think she may indeed have left 'bread crumbs', hoping the authorities would take care of PF.

If LE showed no sign of finding her 'breadcrumbs' and she worried about PF in the future, she could always tip them off to her 'bread crumbs'. I don't think she ever for a second dreamed how much trouble she could be in. I think she assumed that if she didn't actually strike a blow and wasn't actually on the scene, she'd be off the hook if she agreed to testify against him.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I saw that in the affidavit and it said there was no location data on KK’s phone for the suspected murder date of KB. Which is what actually started to make me question where she was and why she turned her location data off. She probably was in Idaho eating turkey but I’m just looking for something solid to go on beside eyewitnesses stating she was there.

It's not like alibi witnesses have ever been proven to lie about someone's whereabouts before.
MOO

 

[Elley Mae]

Finally found it.

After the crime, Frazee joined his family for Thanksgiving dinner before bringing a black tote with Berreth’s body out to Nash Ranch in Fremont County, Kenney said. He put the bag on the top of a stack of hay.

Two days after the alleged murder, on Nov. 24, Frazee and Kenney traveled back to the ranch. Frazee unlocked a red barn and loaded Berreth’s remains into the back of his car, she told investigators.

Patrick Frazee to face trial after preliminary hearing


Used the word, car.

 

[MassGuy]

I will feel a whole lot better about the case when we get clarification of kk's whereabouts 19+20+21+22 nov.
the omission is troubling.
why would she have turned off google location on her phone in the days BEFORE and of KBs murder ?????while she is just living life??

wouldn't be that difficult to give your phone to a friend and get them to use it for you.
kk was very happy using burner phones at free will.

dads word and phone pings are not enough for this cynical mind.

I pray kk was in Idaho as she states. we need her to be.
but this evidence so far is not enough,there HAS to be more.imo

The purpose of a burner phone, was so KK would never be identified by law enforcement.

She is not going to have a friend use her phone for her, as that defeats the purpose of even having a burner in the first place.

At that point, she never imagined the FBI would be showing up at her door.

I’m more than confident that the prosecution will be able to prove where KK was, and when.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I gotta' admit that one of the things that really baffles and dumbfounds me is the amount of times I read it being questioned whether PF "could really be that stupid."

This is PF we're talking about here.

PF is a complete moron.
He has O Executive Functioning Skills.
Nothing about his stupid execution of his stupid plan and subsequent stupid attempts to conceal his crime with his stupid side piece should surprise anyone.

JMO.

These types always think they are beyond genius,and can outsmart everyone.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

In an earlier thread/post, someone showed a picture of the townhouse and said there was a window which looked out the side, where the land grass was higher. The tote could have been pushed out the window and anyone could have climbed out it. The window as I remember was a large sliding window, but not a sliding door.

If someone saved the townhouse pictures could you please repost it? Thank you.

You asked for the townhouse picture on the side, here it is.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Heck he apparently didn't even know about cell phone pings. Maybe he should have watched some youtube videos.

Search bar:____How not to commit a murder

How to not commit murder. Not key word.
Just don't do it. Period. Don't help anyone do it.

 

[ilovechili]

The purpose of a burner phone, was so KK would never be identified by law enforcement.

She is not going to have a friend use her phone for her, as that defeats the purpose of even having a burner in the first place.

She never imagined the FBI would be showing up at her door.

I’m more than confident that the prosecution will be able to prove where KK was, and when.

I agree and hope that is the case but it can also be said.

She never imagined FBI at her door, but she did, she imagined some LE agency was possible so left blood and intentionally turned on KB's cell phone hoping LE would actually find her and come to her.

With regard to the burner phone, it defeats no purpose, you can hand your known phone to your friend and create a false trail of where you were. Or just leave it sitting somewhere, like at home, to prove you were at home all weekend. It has been done before.

All that said, I am not looking to debate, I just am pointing out there are always holes. To me KK's and PF's actions, especially hers with different burner phones, taking different vehicles, lying about whereabouts and times (her first lies), playing such a game with the phones fits right in.

Not saying I have decided I believe that but she would do it in a heartbeat and probably did, even just to show her hubby she stayed with her friend, have her friend keep her phone at her house for an overnight gettogether elsewhere (I mean on prior occasions even).

Lastly, to just make an unrelated separate point, not much has been said at all about computers. These are 30 somethings and even though he may seem like a ranch hick, that age in addition to their phones, all know how to use computers and generally have those as well. Kelsey in addition, I would think, she was even younger. I am hoping LE has all of them from all 3 homes at minimum. Although I would suspect some things would be wiped.

I prefer though to think what you said is 100 percent right on. Time will tell I guess.

 

[Charlot123]

Marking the spot.

Thank you, @Gardener1850
Thank you, @Tippy Lynn

I was out in the real world. Murders and crimes happen everywhere. but this one looks so sad and gloomy. Thank you for summarizing it, I would not be able to go through all the gory details. You did an amazing job.

 

[Dave F.]

Thanks, ohio2013. From the article:

"There are some things that are very clear to me in this," Klismet said. "I believe he's a bald-faced liar, narcissist that is all out for himself."

Based on the evidence that was made public, and assuming it's true, Klismet says Frazee has manipulated his way through life. A large part of the prosecution's case against Frazee is based on testimony from Krystal Kenney, Frazee's ex-girlfriend who was called to help clean up the crime scene.

Klismet watched the video of Frazee walking into court, and he used his experience to tell us about his body language in the courtroom.

"No interest whatsoever in having any contact with anybody -- that's pretty normal, certainly I've seen that plenty of times," Klismet said. "I don't think it indicates any sign of deception."

[...]

"He's perfectly sane, but he's got that personality where he is, in his mind, far more important than anybody else, and so that's how he's going to manifest his personality," Klismet said.

And Frazee's ability to manipulate others is ultimately what got Kenney caught up in the alleged murder.

"Did she fall under his spell? Yes, because apparently she fell in love with him, and for any gal, he's a very good looking guy, and he's got personality, I'm sure," Klismet said. "He can talk his way right through anything."

Klismet believes Kenney's story about leaving clues for investigators to find at the crime scene. Despite being allegedly solicited to murder Kelsey Berreth multiple times, Kenney said she could never go through with it. He says in Kenney's mind, her only way out was to leave a trail of breadcrumbs.

Since this article touched on it, a word about sanity, or insanity as a defense. In Colorado and several other western states, a plea of innocent by reason of insanity is very rare. The standard is simply that the accused was or was not capable of understanding that the crime was wrong under the simplest interpretation of the law. A perfect example is RD, who also is awaiting trial in the same District as PF, for the Planned Parenthood clinic massacre. The man clearly several crucial screws missing from his Erector set carton, but he has not been judged insane. The court is patiently waiting for his forced meds to calm him to the point that he can sit shackled in court sessions without a gag.
Narc or not makes no difference to the prosecution in PF's case. IMO

 

[Bluebythec]

Interesting is right - thanks for sharing. Profiler believes KK left breadcrumbs....

What a shame she didn't plant some breadcrumbs *before* KB was killed.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

BBM

She lied to her husband about where she was going to be over Thanksgiving weekend. He apparently had access to her google account and her cellphone at times.

That excuse does have holes in it. KK sent a fake text to MG asking to spend the night because she'd had too much to drink and couldn't make it home to Idaho. That was a lie - supposedly it was in case her ex-husband saw her texts? Really? What about all the texts between KK and PF? Did she immediately delete them so her ex-husband wouldn't see them?

Access to her google account? It appears to have been a reasonably amicable divorce, because it seems they were still living under the same roof two years later. Post-divorce, even an amicable divorce, I think its perfectly reasonable to change passwords to anything your ex had access to while you were married.

Like so much of KK's account, there's nothing really specifically wrong, but it just smells ever so slightly off.

She may have had a computer or laptop at home that was always logged into her google as mine is. And perhaps they had an arrangement where they would continue to share a household until such time that either of them became super involved with someone else and it would become really awkward. For that reason, she may have wanted to hide trips to see PF. And maybe suddenly logging out of google on a home computer would have raised red flags.

 

[ilovechili]

What a shame she didn't plant some breadcrumbs *before* KB was killed.

Great point. What a difference that would have made. I wonder why? Personally, she wanted her gone as badly as he did so could not do it beforehand. She needed to be sure she was gone. And now it is a cover your arse and save yourself situation....

If one even believes her bread crumb b.s. Right?

jmo.

 

[MsJosie]

You asked for the townhouse picture on the side, here it is.

Thank you dixiegirl1035 what does everyone think...possible to get a tote out that window? OR was the tote on the side and just a body in a bag pushed out the window and then put in the tote?

 

[PrairieWind]

Great point. What a difference that would have made. I wonder why? Personally, she wanted her gone as badly as he did so could not do it beforehand. She needed to be sure she was gone. And now it is a cover your arse and save yourself situation....

If one even believes her bread crumb b.s. Right?

jmo.

No, I for one don't believe the bread crumb story. If she really wanted PF to get caught she could have just gone to the police directly. I really would like to know what they talked about around the fire.

 

[MassGuy]

Thank you dixiegirl1035 what does everyone think...possible to get a tote out that window? OR was the tote on the side and just a body in a bag pushed out the window and then put in the tote?

Why go through the window, when you can just walk out the front door?

The tote would conceal her body, and this guy apparently didn’t even have a problem driving around with Kelsey’s body in the bed of his truck.

No need to get creative, or complicate things.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

That is an interesting point and I think it might be plausible.

I believe KK's friend, MS, when she said KK said she'd never seen such evil and she was afraid.

I think at some point, KK did start suspecting PF was trying to get her to take ALL of the risks. I think it's possible that by the time she cleaned up the condo, she was starting to be a bit afraid of PF, because she had witnessed what he was capable of. She told a friend that she was done with him, and I think she meant that, at least at the time she said it. I think she may indeed have left 'bread crumbs', hoping the authorities would take care of PF.

If LE showed no sign of finding her 'breadcrumbs' and she worried about PF in the future, she could always tip them off to her 'bread crumbs'. I don't think she ever for a second dreamed how much trouble she could be in. I think she assumed that if she didn't actually strike a blow and wasn't actually on the scene, she'd be off the hook if she agreed to testify against him.

I wonder if she told them where the blood evidence was before or after going back to Kelsey's and pointing it out.