CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[Kapua]

Do you think PF lied to kk about any parts of the crime?

Do liars lie to other liars?

 

[GordianKnot]

Do you think PF lied to kk about any parts of the crime?

IMO, PF definitely lied to KK about his motive for wanting KB dead.
In that regard, he's duplicitous and sly.
He lied to KK prior to the murder in order to enlist her assistance.

I think he didn't care once he'd killed KB what KK knew or believed, so he just recited the stone, cold facts.
He'd already roped KK into the deal, so he didn't need to lie to her any more.

He just needed her to get busy with the Windex and Bleach.

Because, you know, he ran out of Wet Wipes.

JMO.

 

[ajaylee]

IMO, he definitely lied to KK about his motive for the crime.
In that regard, he's duplicitous and sly.
He lied to KK prior to the murder in order to enlist her assistance.

I think he didn't care once he'd killed KB what KK knew or believed, so he just recited the stone, cold facts.
He'd already roped KK into the deal, so he didn't need to lie to her any more.

He just needed her to get busy with the Windex and Bleach, because he ran out of Wet Wipes.

JMO.

I think PF thought he had roped KK in so deep that she could never risk talking.

He never counted on her being offered a deal too good to refuse.

He looked very bad in the one photo that showed his face from the side as he was entering or exiting the hearing. I've looked at it a couple times - the angle is bad, so it's hard to tell.

I look forward to seeing how he looks when we see him next. If he thinks he's miserable now, wait until he finds out what life in a real prison is like. If he didn't really have an ulcer before, I'll bet he's got one now. All that rage and bile and all he can do is kick the wall. Probably not half as satisfying as kicking a dog or a horse.

I would like to know more about how often he and KK communicated after she went back to Idaho and before he was arrested.

 

[PommyMommy]

Yes, I agree, if you ask me it is insulting to all LE that she actually thinks they would believe that garbage as her actions show otherwise. I imagine they do not for one minute but it is the story of hers they have to work with and I guess at this point at least the goal is him and not her.

This is also one of those things that make no sense. They are trying to show her going towards Idaho but her vehicles are home, sell it as a suicide but use a bat? My guess is something interfered with the plan and timing, the removing one of her vehicles or who knows... And in no way do I believe it was her refusal to take the body that changed the plans because everything else she did goes against that as well. Yet they almost, or at least he did, tried to continue the suicide hints or going to visit someone claims.... smh... idk.

Yet...

Pg 7, #48 of the AA

"...Lee purposely concealed this information prior to her fully cooperation and truthful statements to investigators on December 20, 2018."

 

[ab01]

There’s no way to know for sure obviously, but I don’t think so.

It appears that he provided her with a great amount of detail, and lying wouldn’t serve much of a purpose.

His account was as horrific as it was cold.

As cold as:

“This is private property, this is a private drive”.
-a murderer-

 

[Artis]

The purpose of a burner phone, was so KK would never be identified by law enforcement.

She is not going to have a friend use her phone for her, as that defeats the purpose of even having a burner in the first place.

At that point, she never imagined the FBI would be showing up at her door.

I’m more than confident that the prosecution will be able to prove where KK was, and when.

That would be the logical purpose of a burner phone, in this case, but I'm not so sure that's what happened. The only use of the burner phone, that I've seen referenced (correct me if I'm wrong), was one being used to give to Kelsey KK's phone number at the lost dogs/coffee ruse contact. All the pings showing KK's travel were her own phone. Both of those fools were driving around pinging all over the place with their own phones.

I owe @GordianKnot an apology from a few threads back. She's been the one constantly saying "this is PF we're talking about here" and I questioned putting evil and stupid in the same category. She is absolutely right. They're both stupid. Even taking the time to turn off her Google location thingy, KK still traveled with her own phone. He suggests a burner a phone (according to KK - and I'm not so sure about that) to give Kelsey an untraceable phone number, not to avoid pinging, but just to dupe Kelsey. Sheesh. Have these two never watched any crime documentaries or ever read an article on being tracked by your phone?

 

[PrairieWind]

Do you think PF lied to kk about any parts of the crime?

I'm sure he did. I am particularly suspicious of the fire. HE wanted her there, told her all about what happened, took her to get the tote and back, etc etc, but didn't show her the body. I also am suspicious that she says he told her we would throw the remains in a river or dump.

 

[GordianKnot]

That would be the logical purpose of a burner phone, in this case, but I'm not so sure that's what happened. The only use of the burner phone, that I've seen referenced (correct me if I'm wrong), was one being used to give to Kelsey KK's phone number at the lost dogs/coffee ruse contact. All the pings showing KK's travel were her own phone. Both of those fools were driving around pinging all over the place with their own phones.

I owe @GordianKnot an apology from a few threads back. She's been the one constantly saying "this is PF we're talking about here" and I questioned putting evil and stupid in the same category. She is absolutely right. They're both stupid. Even taking the time to turn off her Google location thingy, KK still traveled with her own phone. He suggests a burner a phone (according to KK - and I'm not so sure about that) to give Kelsey an untraceable phone number, not to avoid pinging, but just to dupe Kelsey. Sheesh. Have these two never watched any crime documentaries or ever read an article on being tracked by your phone?

Artis, m'friend, no apologies are needed whatsoever!
I think you were so (rightly) focused on the evilness of PF's actions that you weren't necessarily thinking about the stupidity of them. Thanks for saying that, though!

 

[ab01]

That would be the logical purpose of a burner phone, in this case, but I'm not so sure that's what happened. The only use of the burner phone, that I've seen referenced (correct me if I'm wrong), was one being used to give to Kelsey KK's phone number at the lost dogs/coffee ruse contact. All the pings showing KK's travel were her own phone. Both of those fools were driving around pinging all over the place with their own phones.

I owe @GordianKnot an apology from a few threads back. She's been the one constantly saying "this is PF we're talking about here" and I questioned putting evil and stupid in the same category. She is absolutely right. They're both stupid. Even taking the time to turn off her Google location thingy, KK still traveled with her own phone. He suggests a burner a phone (according to KK - and I'm not so sure about that) to give Kelsey an untraceable phone number, not to avoid pinging, but just to dupe Kelsey. Sheesh. Have these two never watched any crime documentaries or ever read an article on being tracked by your phone?

I thought le said they were able to trace a burner number back to kk? Am I mistaken?

 

[Artis]

Since this article touched on it, a word about sanity, or insanity as a defense. In Colorado and several other western states, a plea of innocent by reason of insanity is very rare. The standard is simply that the accused was or was not capable of understanding that the crime was wrong under the simplest interpretation of the law. A perfect example is RD, who also is awaiting trial in the same District as PF, for the Planned Parenthood clinic massacre. The man clearly several crucial screws missing from his Erector set carton, but he has not been judged insane. The court is patiently waiting for his forced meds to calm him to the point that he can sit shackled in court sessions without a gag.
Narc or not makes no difference to the prosecution in PF's case. IMO

Not a narc, imho, but ASPD. Nevertheless, those personality disorders are not even considered mental illness, let alone insanity. They're conditions of lack (empathy, conscience) but are entirely aware of right and wrong. They just don't care.

 

[Artis]

What a shame she didn't plant some breadcrumbs *before* KB was killed.

Even an expert profiler can be conned by these people. Why, he's almost parroting her flying monkeys.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Why go through the window, when you can just walk out the front door?

The tote would conceal her body, and this guy apparently didn’t even have a problem driving around with Kelsey’s body in the bed of his truck.

No need to get creative, or complicate things.

Yep. I read early on that Kelsey's neighbor had already left for Thanksgiving celebrations elsewhere, so likely no vehicles, no witnesses to worry about. (sorry no link)

 

[Artis]

She may have had a computer or laptop at home that was always logged into her google as mine is. And perhaps they had an arrangement where they would continue to share a household until such time that either of them became super involved with someone else and it would become really awkward. For that reason, she may have wanted to hide trips to see PF. And maybe suddenly logging out of google on a home computer would have raised red flags.

Tech tard, here, again. I've never had a smart phone but from what I understand people can link up all of their devises (PC, phones, laptops) so, in that scenario, would that mean he could view her Google location data, collected from her phone, on the home PC? Whether yes or no, I would sort of think she would not be linking devices where he could see her stuff. When she sent the fake text to MG, saying she was worried CL might go through her phone, I figured it meant as in physically picking it up and looking through it when she was asleep or whatever.

 

[BingoBongo]

Not a narc, imho, but ASPD. Nevertheless, those personality disorders are not even considered mental illness, let alone insanity. They're conditions of lack (empathy, conscience) but are entirely aware of right and wrong. They just don't care.

NPD and ASPD are now interchangeable diagnosis according to some, and I think the latest DSM (5?) claims they are the same?

 

[justaparent]

"... After cleaning up, Lee said she put the trash bags near where Berreth’s Corolla was parked, loaded them into her car, and went to Sonic. From there, she returned to Frazee’s property. ..."



I think I have to get away from this whole thing for awhile. Reading about these psychopathic monsters is raising my blood pressure to the point that it’s actually dangerous. Maybe I’m a wuss but I just don’t know how people like this can be allowed to continue living. Maybe I am developing hangman’s attitude and that’s not good because it makes me just as bad as they are.

 

[Artis]

No, I for one don't believe the bread crumb story. If she really wanted PF to get caught she could have just gone to the police directly. I really would like to know what they talked about around the fire.

And she would never thrown away Kelsey's tooth which would be proof positive to hang him. She's just a liar. Oh, and, btw, she could have taken pics of Kelsey's home before cleaning it, emailed them to herself and then deleted them from the phone. She may have taken pics but she destroyed her phone so LE could never see what was on it.

 

[Artis]

Yes, but that doesn’t mean we have to complicate things.

A guy who is willing to leave a bloody crime scene for a day and a half, isn’t going to be pushing a dead body from a window, when he can just walk out the front door.

That’s not an easy thing to do, and entirely unnecessary.

Not to mention that even if the window had been the exit point, he'd still have to get the container to his truck, in the driveway.

 

[TDoc72]

I want to know if any candles were gathered about in the crime scene (like if you were going to play a game). Or what he bought at Walmart? Just two of the myriads of questions I have.

I also find the ‘you were up late, go take a nap’ theory very plausible.

Not sure where I stand on KK’s story just yet. I know the police believe it, but I’d like a little more corraboration. Hopefully they have more. If SF ever testifies, she could confirm the steel rod & fire (If she’s not incriminated and was just a witness, she wouldn’t need to plead the 5th correct?). And I wish KK had kept the biggest (IMO) breadcrumb of all, KB’s phone. KK should’ve lied to PF and just his it if she was really expecting LE to come around.

 

[Hatch]

I think they would be able to tell the difference between menstrual blood,and bludgeoning blood,from head wounds.
Any forensic experts on here that can answer that?

I got the idea they were just making a point that KB was on her period and not PG, or that someone had left tampons in the bathroom. IIRR It was said there was blood inside the commode, and on the outside that her Mom found.

 

[MsBetsy]

Not a narc, imho, but ASPD. Nevertheless, those personality disorders are not even considered mental illness, let alone insanity. They're conditions of lack (empathy, conscience) but are entirely aware of right and wrong. They just don't care.

I know this has come up before, but all of the personality disorders ARE mental health disorders, or mental illnesses, including Anti- social Personality Disorder. (psychopath) Those with ASPD very often have narcissistic traits. Imo