CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[Artis]

PF lived in Florissant with his mama until LE moved him to Divide.

Ah, thank you for clarity. It was, shall we say, an unexpected move.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

anybody have an architect gene and know where that window is on the inside (without me looking at all the Zillow pics again)? Is there a reason it is more convenient than the door?

IINAA, I am not an architect

But from the outside it is just to the left of the front door, and then to the left of that. We have heard that there was a back bedroom behind the kitchen, and we have seen from the photographs that p o m m y has posted that the kitchen is right next to the front door. So my assumption is, one of the windows right next to the front door is to the kitchen, and the one to the far left in this photograph is to the back bedroom which was stated was behind the kitchen.

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm behind, so someone may have said this, or something related already - I apologize in advance, if so.
I have assumed that the finances and gun to the head probably go hand in hand with CB mentioning the wedding wasn't happening because of PF's financial struggles. He didn't have to support KB, but there was probably an "emotional conversation" (thanks CW for the descriptor ha) about how she had his child, and wanted to be a "real family" and she was upset they were living in the situation they were in (especially given her Christian background), as it probably wasn't how she envisioned her life would go (unwed mother). He says they can't get married because of his finances, and she says she should just kill herself because she is upset she is in this situation.
I lean toward this explanation, also because CB hasn't openly expressed to know a great deal about the relationship, but it seems she knows about PF's finances derailing the wedding, and KB putting the gun to her own head. So in MOO, it makes sense that these two scenarios could go together.

Yes, he called it a "heart to heart!"

 

[ab01]

So... he just happened to have a baseball bat with him that day?

Or it was already there? Or maybe he brought it with him. But I do think there was something that made him decide to do it on that day and I don’t think it was previously planned the way that it played out. Moo

 

[MsBetsy]

Excellent articles. Often PT is so-so because of PC agendas but those are really good. Bookmarked and thank you!

Because of the fact that every individual is so unique, one can spend a lifetime knowing these characters and never being able to really pigeon hole them. It's happened in my own life.

We need a trait checklist for all of this stuff. A red flag list. No matter which category the traits fall into, once the subject exhibits a certain number, RUN AWAY.

It's also important to remember that most people with these disorders don't usually commit violent crimes!
But on the other hand, many people who commit violent crimes have such a disorder.
However it's helpful to recognize symptoms in family members or anyone you are having a relationship with.
By now we should all be experts! Imo

 

[v0x]

Or it was already there?

Was she on a softball league? She lived in a safe neighborhood. Sorry. Not seeing it.

 

[Noharg]

DBM never mind

 

[mtnlites]

Was she on a softball league? She lived in a safe neighborhood. Sorry. Not seeing it.

I know many people who keep baseball bats in their homes for defense. Any neighborhood can be broken into, even so-called "safe"ones. Some don't feel comfortable with guns. In my house we have both-guns and baseball bats. This is not odd to me.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

That just made me think about something. There were supposedly tampons in the bathroom trash when LE went there on the 20th. If you were Kelsey's mom and you had been in that house, going over things with a fine tooth comb, would you have left the bathroom trash there?

Obviously she did for the 3 days that she and her son were there. Even though she wasn't a trial follower, she at least did not throw out the trash. She probably did not realize any significance to it. But I am not going to shame her and make her feel guilt as she was a victim.

She appears to be a very strong woman, and I don't want to throw any guilt-ridden second-guesses along to her. They did a fabulous job, it may have taken 3 days, and it appears that they moved out right after that was found.

 

[Kapua]

OK, since we have already had to discuss the gruesome details of KB's death, let us address another bad aspect of this: where exactly did PF and KK get together? KK's house belonged to her ex. PF lives with his mom. In a truck? In a field? At the Nash barn? (trying to find the intoxicating romance here)

I haven't been feeling this so-called love story from Day 1, to be honest with you.
You have one married or very recently divorced mother of two. She's a nurse with, I'm assuming, a demanding schedule.
Her so-called "boyfriend" two states and 800 miles away is a farrier with a few head of cattle that he runs on the side. I assume he has to work fairly regularly as well, although perhaps not a 9-to-5 schedule. Boyfriend also has a fiancé; at least, the fiancé thinks they will be married "some day", and an infant daughter.
When did these two ever spend any quality time together; that is, before any of this murder conspiracy began?

 

[ab01]

Was she on a softball league? She lived in a safe neighborhood. Sorry. Not seeing it.

I thought it was reported as a baseball bat?

Just kidding but I do know people that keep bats for protection. Agree to disagree and I accept that you don’t buy it. And no need to be sorry
Thx

 

[BingoBongo]

We need a trait checklist for all of this stuff. A red flag list. No matter which category the traits fall into, once the subject exhibits a certain number, RUN AWAY.

I use the hair on the back of the neck tingle as my checklist.

By the time we figure out that we need to figure someone out, it's often too late. We've already been sucked into the "caring" and "benefit of the doubt" mode.

So, if my hinky meter tingles (feels like a slight electric coolness on the back of my neck), that is my key to run for the hills and never 2nd guess that decision.

Edited to ad - just hit me, those of us who work out, or use tools of self-defense (afraid to use the word g*n here, had lots of posts deleted due to that) are familiar with "muscle memory". I think learning about dangerous personalities and practicing walking away from those who exhibit them, is a form of muscle memory.

 

[PommyMommy]

In the Lucas Hernandez case, we had a member (maybe @ESO ) had a ton of knowledge about the in's and out's of landfills (Maybe @PommyMommy can remember if it was ESO for sure).

Yes, it was. She can talk trash like nobody's business!!!
MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

Those with NPD rarely think they have a need for treatment. It's not them, it's you. I can totally see PF taking that attitude.

Good article from the Mayo Clinic here:

Personality disorders - Diagnosis and treatment - Mayo Clinic

Yup, they are "professional blamers." If they can't blame it on a person, they will blame it on a "thing." Imo

 

[Kapua]

It doesn’t take a lot of time to ugh roll around in the hay and be on your way....moo

It does when you live 800 miles apart, MOO. ETA, that's a long drive for a booty call.

 

[Steelslady]

"... After cleaning up, Lee said she put the trash bags near where Berreth’s Corolla was parked, loaded them into her car, and went to Sonic. From there, she returned to Frazee’s property. ..."



I think I have to get away from this whole thing for awhile. Reading about these psychopathic monsters is raising my blood pressure to the point that it’s actually dangerous. Maybe I’m a wuss but I just don’t know how people like this can be allowed to continue living. Maybe I am developing hangman’s attitude and that’s not good because it makes me just as bad as they are.

I totally understand how you feel. Some days, I have to take a break myself and just get away from it. Although, in our case, we're not wishing the worst for good and innocent people- it's the people that have harmed or killed the good an innocent we're angry at, and wish the worst for them. Then I tell myself the same thing you tell yourself- not cool, I'm as bad as they are. Then I go read a book or so some project around the house to get my mind off of it. Some of these cases are just too much for the mind to process- the evil behind it, the anguish, pain, and destruction it causes to their victim's family and friends. All for what, I ask? Why?

 

[v0x]

I thought it was reported as a baseball bat?

Just kidding but I do know people that keep bats for protection. Agree to disagree and I accept that you don’t buy it. And no need to be sorry
Thx

Is there a difference in bats between softball and baseball? Sorry. I don’t follow sportsball things. I have neither guns nor bats in my home. The only thing I relate to are scented candles. I do have those.

 

[ab01]

It does when you live 800 miles apart, MOO. ETA, that's a long drive for a booty call.

Good point

 

[Artis]

Wait, are you saying there are boards on WS filled with nuts? LOL Not sure I should go read, am already weirded out by some of these crime stories.

Have you read much of Vaknin? Gives me the shivers.

I see these disorders (NPD, ASPD, etc.) as along the lines of hair color. Many color categories, and within those color categories, many shades and within those shades, some grey, some natural and some from a box. ;-)

Noooo, not WS! lol. Psych Forums: Personality Disorders - Psych forums

The sections are for the people with the disorders and they talk about themselves, what they are and what they think. It's a really slow board but has some astounding reading on it. Some of scared the out of me so, yeah, beware.

Yes, I've read Sam Vaknin and watched some of his YT videos (I noticed he has a new one). That's where one gets the ultimate education on narcs, imo. From the horse's mouth. Robert Hare also classified him as a psychopath, I think (not certain). He doesn't scare me but there's another one who does and I can't think of his name, ATM. He's chilling to read because you can tell he takes pride in what he is and a real ruthlessness comes through.

Reading guys like Vaknin helps to illustrate the vast differences in people who are labeled the same way. People like him are so different from most of criminals we look at here but share some of the same traits.

 

[Artis]

Wait, are you saying there are boards on WS filled with nuts? LOL Not sure I should go read, am already weirded out by some of these crime stories.

Have you read much of Vaknin? Gives me the shivers.

I see these disorders (NPD, ASPD, etc.) as along the lines of hair color. Many color categories, and within those color categories, many shades and within those shades, some grey, some natural and some from a box. ;-)

Also meant to say that I love your hair color analogy. The box one made me think of the NPD's false self.