CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[Kapua]

KK has as much mass as Patrick. She logically should have also been picked up on the security camera. The security camera is clearly unreliable. One can't say KK wasn't there because of an unreliable security camera.

KK is not as tall as PF. I am a petite woman (5'2") and find that the motion sensors at the doorways of certain businesses are set a bit high, so I raise my hand to get the automatic doors to open. Also, KK parked at the Woodland Community Center and walked to KB's. PommyMommy suggested that she may have stepped over the low fence at the rear of the condo to get to KB's front door. If the security camera was in the front of the neighbor's condo, it may not have picked her up. So it may have been KK's height or her approach that was different. I don't think it matters all that much if she admits to being there and her cell phone pinged there (if it did). MOO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

So Monday he does enter a plea it's not just motions. I wonder since finding out he's a real momma's boy if possibly he may plead out in order for his mom not to testify and end up incriminating herself.just my opinion he may surprise us

I vacillate whether he will be pleading to protect his mother, or not pleading because he is very pissed off at KKL and wants to bury her.

But how does he do that without exposing his mother and possibly his brother?

His brother is law enforcement. If he is put in the stand and he pleads the fifth, I would think he would lose his job. And if he lies, and they'd catch him in the lies, well Paul Harvey rest of the story.

It was very interesting that he said that his brother arrived later than he did at 2:30. But he never said when. My next question if I was a law enforcement person that was questioning him was, what time did you leave?

 

[Charlot123]

He beat a defenseless mother’s face in with a baseball bat.

I don’t think making fun of him while making a point, is any way out of bounds.

I think people are trying to find “predictors” or indicators of the future crime. And in this regard, there are none. When I looked through these poorly made videos, there was nothing that could tell me that in less that a year, this man would commit a heinous, planned, murder.

Sadly, unless there is a major history of prior violence, no one can foresee nor foretell these events.

Arendt’s phrase “the banality of evil”, sadly, applies to this story as well. We can debate whether PF is attractive or not, but he does not look a horrible human being on photos. Whatever might be said about KK’s looks, to me, she appears perfectly normal. Worse, I can imagine her being a likable nurse.

This is probably the scariest part of all. Another scary part - PF did not stand to gain from KB’s death. Neither financially, nor in any other way. In fact, she was trying to do everything possible to make their situation normal. And he had full access to the kid. There was no dire need to kill her. Even in CW’s case, at least, there was grave financial debt. Here - nothing!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Why didn't the security camera record KK entering or leaving Kelsey's duplex? If the security camera erased dated recordings, it should have erased Patrick's recording first as KK allegedly went to Kelsey's apartment 2 days after Patrick killed Kelsey.

Why didn't the security camera capture someone entering and exiting Kelsey's Toyota? Someone with cadaverine on their socks entered and exited KK's Toyota and left their socks inside the car. A cadaver dog hit on Kelsey's Toyota and the socks lit up with a reactive agent.

Who was the person in the truck outside Kelsey's home on Thanksgiving? Who was the utility person near her duplex? Did these individuals wear a ball cap or hard hat to disguise their long hair?

Remember that KK had been using burner phones for months.
Someone using Patrick's phone called KK's personal phone in Idaho on the date Kelsey was allegedly killed. KK could have used Patrick's phone to call her own phone which she left with an Idaho friend. One of KK's friends even admitted she previously provided a false alibi for KK.

I want to know if KK's dad and Meghan, who KK previously used as an alibi, are the only witnesses stating KK was in Idaho when Kelsey was murdered. Meghan is clearly an untrustworthy witness. KK's dad might also lie for her.

Until it is released that LE tracked KK's burner phone traveling to Colorado on Nov 24th, I have to believe KK was at Kelsey's duplex with Patrick and the baseball bat.

This is the first time I've heard of such that the socks lit up with a reactive agent. I think this may be a misinterpretation of something?

Where did you hear this. Quote from you above is below.

"A cadaver dog hit on Kelsey's Toyota and the socks lit up with a reactive agent. "

Also your comment about the other person in the utility person being there on Thanksgiving, I think most of us have it come to the conclusion that that was a question as far as their surveillance camera and what was caught during the investigative.. That was not done on Thanksgiving Day. In my opinion. Responding to your comment of

"Who was the person in the truck outside Kelsey's home on Thanksgiving? Who was the utility person near her duplex? Did these individuals wear a ball cap or hard hat to disguise their long hair? "

 

[MsBetsy]

slater and may have both stated that they can verify kk location on the 22nd. I’m not sure I can say they aren’t being truthful and I sure as heck don’t think they have been fooled.

That’s my opinion and that’s what I believe to be fact. All else goes against what I know about LE.

Do we know how many people LE interviewed who were at Thanksgiving dinner with KK's family? Was it just immediate family or were there extended family or friends who attended? I don't remember any mention of how many they interviewed, but apparently it was enough to convince LE she was there. Imo

 

[ab01]

Do we know how many people LE interviewed who were at Thanksgiving dinner with KK's family? Was it just immediate family or were there extended family or friends who attended? I don't remember any mention of how many they interviewed, but apparently it was enough to convince LE she was there. Imo

I don’t believe we have been given that information. I have seen a photo floating around online with a large group of people supposedly from their thanksgiving. But it can’t be necessarily substantiated and thus is just rumor and speculation.

I just believe LE knows where she was and has probably talked to many people moo

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Maybe KK arrived at the duplex at a different time than Patrick and the truck or utility truck blocked the view of the security camera which is why KK wasn't recorded.

I think everything we have gleaned from the arrest affidavit and other information is that she did indeed arrive at a different time than Patrick.

Are you trying to infer that the utility person arrived at the same time as she did? Or somewhere around that time so that the utility truck on the 24th blocked her view coming in?

 

[InvSmith]

I think people are trying to find “predictors” or indicators of the future crime. And in this regard, there are none. When I looked through these poorly made videos, there was nothing that could tell me that in less that a year, this man would commit a heinous, planned, murder.

Sadly, unless there is a major history of prior violence, no one can foresee nor foretell these events.

Arendt’s phrase “the banality of evil”, sadly, applies to this story as well. We can debate whether PF is attractive or not, but he does not look a horrible human being on photos. Whatever might be said about KK’s looks, to me, she appears perfectly normal. Worse, I can imagine her being a likable nurse.

This is probably the scariest part of all. Another scary part - PF did not stand to gain from KB’s death. Neither financially, nor in any other way. In fact, she was trying to do everything possible to make their situation normal. And he had full access to the kid. There was no dire need to kill her. Even in CW’s case, at least, there was grave financial debt. Here - nothing!

This was a good topic for analysis. The major indicatior in both cases mentioned is the dual lives of both men. As far as we know, both SW and KB thought they were in a committed relationship. Both men by evidence demonstrated otherwise so this tells us something. The men are capable of manipulation, lying, cheating, creating greater financial strain, verbal abuse, and ultimately murder. The evidence was the fake masks they wore and the fake lives the lived. This creates tremendous stress and ultimately in these cases the loss of lives. Ultimately, these two cases were about manipulators and I doubt seriously anything could have saved these women or children.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don’t believe we have been given that information. I have seen a photo floating around online with a large group of people supposedly from their thanksgiving. But it can’t be necessarily substantiated and thus is just rumor and speculation.

I just believe LE knows where she was and has probably talked to many people moo

That's what I thought. I always think of Thanksgiving as having extended family all gathering at one place with a bunch of kids running around. Imo

 

[InvSmith]

I didn't realize, as I hadn't seen it I will delete it. My apologies

I had not seen it before so thank you for posting. I wish I hadn't heard his voice. Just scroll past you have seen and don't comment.

 

[PommyMommy]

“Fourth Judicial District Judge Scott Sells ruled Tuesday that evidence was sufficient to merit a murder trial for Frazee, who remains held in the Teller County jail without bond. A trial likely will be scheduled when Frazee returns to enter a plea March 4.”

https://gazette.com/news/patrick-frazee-allegedly-had-blindfolded-kelsey-berreth-bludgeoned-her-with/article_acf2c29e-34c1-11e9-9cbe-ffdd4f88d281.html

Anyone think a trial date will actually be set Monday?

BBM

I don't. It's a motions hearing. It was originally set to hear the motion on consumptive testing.

Go look at the photos of her condo. If the camera was secured to a home across the alley, a parked truck in front of Kelsey's door would obscure the view of people entering Kelsey's door.

BBM

Kelsey's front door:


Are you saying you think a truck could park here in front of Kelsey's door?

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

Arrest Affidavit, Page, Item 65, Line 5:
"Cell phone call and text records support the fact that Lee and Frazee did indeed have conversation on the 22nd of November, 2018 as Lee reported."
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/Application and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf
I have no idea why this tagged to a different post. This was in answer to GGranny's post suggesting that LE failed to track KKL's burner phone from Idaho to Colorado on the 22nd.

Has KK made any rest stops along her way to Colorado where she could have been seen on camera? Could she (or at least the car she was in) have been seen on any traffic cameras? Were there any cameras at or near the Woodland Park Community Center? What about somewhere along the path from the center to Kelsey's house?

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

This is the first time I've heard of such that the socks lit up with a reactive agent. I think this may be a misinterpretation of something?

Where did you hear this. Quote from you above is below.

"A cadaver dog hit on Kelsey's Toyota and the socks lit up with a reactive agent. "

This information came from a Colorado news reporter who transcribed statements and posted them on twitter while attending the preliminary hearing. Check Sam Kraemer's (KOAA) twitter.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I don't. It's a motions hearing. It was originally set to hear the motion on consumptive testing.

BBM

Kelsey's front door:
View attachment 171669

Are you saying you think a truck could park here?

MOO

Good grief, no. Look at all the photos. Look at the parking area on the alley side of Kelsey's duplex. The parking area is several yards from that short corridor. If a car was parked IN THE PARKING AREA in front of that corridor (the ALLEY side), it would prevent a security camera across the alley from recording who entered Kelsey's apartment from the STREET SIDE of the corridor entrance.

 

[PommyMommy]

Audioboom / Kelsey Berreth murder case

Mar 1, 11:12 AM
Tricia Griffith from Websleuths.com joins Levi Page to discuss the latest in the Kelsey Berreth murder case.

 

[PommyMommy]

Go look at the photos of her condo. If the camera was secured to a home across the alley, a parked truck in front of Kelsey's door would obscure the view of people entering Kelsey's door.

Good grief, no. Look at all the photos. Look at the parking area in front of Kelsey's duplex. The parking area is several yards from that short corridor. If a car was parked IN THE PARKING AREA in front of that corridor, it would prevent a security camera across the alley from recording who entered Kelsey's apartment from the other side of the corridor.

Lol, okay. IN THE PARKING AREA is very different than "in front of Kelsey's door." Thank you for clarifying. (BBM)
MOO

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I think everything we have gleaned from the arrest affidavit and other information is that she did indeed arrive at a different time than Patrick.

Are you trying to infer that the utility person arrived at the same time as she did? Or somewhere around that time so that the utility truck on the 24th blocked her view coming in?

It could have accidentally blocked KK's arrived on Nov 22nd. If a car or truck was parked in the alley parking lot of Kelsey's home and KK came down the corridor (between her duplex and her neighbor's) from the STREET side, the camera couldn't record this.

The surveillance camera also didn't record KK exiting. The surveillance camera is unreliable.

The cadaverine on the socks in Kelsey's Toyota may have been from Kelsey's mom or brother using the Toyota when they came to check in December.

 

[indicolite22]

This is probably the scariest part of all. Another scary part - PF did not stand to gain from KB’s death. Neither financially, nor in any other way. In fact, she was trying to do everything possible to make their situation normal. And he had full access to the kid. There was no dire need to kill her. Even in CW’s case, at least, there was grave financial debt. Here - nothing!

He did not want to be with her any more. If he broke up with her, he could stand to lose access to the baby. The amount of violence used in her killing also points to accumulated resentment towards her. IMO his appaling attitude stems from his upbringing.

 

[Dave F.]

Did KK make any rest stops along her way to Colorado where she could have been seen on camera? Could she (or at least the car she was in) have been seen on any traffic cameras? Were there any cameras at or near the Woodland Park Community Center? What about somewhere along the path from the center to Kelsey's house?

All excellent questions for the defense to ask at trial. Right now, LE hasn't given us any of them.
In practical terms, there seems to be streets and sidewalks with all residences and no commercial buildings between the community center and the condo. Not quite the same as parking at Sonic. I'm sure there are cameras all along the route in Colorado, but once crossed into Utah it gets a little less population. Like it falls into the Category of "little or no" population. Then you hit the strip from Castle Gate through Salt Lake City to Tremonton, Utah, fondly referred to in the west as "the Construction Zone". There's a few short miles of farmland, and then the Great Idaho Lava Flow. It's kind of like driving through a Hawaiian volcano, except the lava is all cooled. Lots of cameras. but they're mostly in people's hands. There is a very popular rest stop in that stretch, but it's huge. I wonder how many black cars stop per hour? One hundred? Two hundred? I just can't wrap my imagination around a realistic number. It's optional to wave at Pocatello as you zoom on past it, then pretty much nothing but a lot of traffic until the turnoff to Hansen. If the defense got someone working on it right now, they would find at least one camera on that route that LE didn't think to check, by the time trial comes up. IMO

 

[oviedo]

It could have accidentally blocked KK's arrived on Nov 22nd. If a car or truck was parked in the alley parking lot of Kelsey's home and KK came down the corridor (between her duplex and her neighbor's) from the STREET side, the camera couldn't record this.

The surveillance camera also didn't record KK exiting. The surveillance camera is unreliable.

The cadaverine on the socks in Kelsey's Toyota may have been from Kelsey's mom or brother using the Toyota when they came to check in December.

From what I have read we don't know that LE has video of KK- it was not part of the affidavit and they may be holding back their evidence IMO. I do not think the security camera is unreliable - I think we just haven't seen all of their evidence. JMO