CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[Artis]

Something that I am wondering about now after thinking about it more is the vague account KK gave about what PF did with the final burnt remains. She claims she didnt know what he did with them and she even said its possible he threw them in a river as one of the possibles. Wait a minute here KK. Im thinking you would know exactly what he did because you know everything else.

You supposedly watched him burn KB in the tote and you dont know where he went with the burnt remains? I doubt that.

Now I am really wondering if maybe PF and KK only burnt the tote container that once contained KB, the purse, some clothing, and other evidence that they know would burn up cleanly, and maybe PF took the body somewhere else for disposal.

Because PF would know that its almost impossible to burn up a body cleanly so maybe he did dump the body separately first before burning the tote container and the last of the evidence back at his farm.

PF and KK's original plan was if there is no body, then there is no murder. And KK set her story up that she never actually saw KB's body in the tote and just saw a clump as it burned so she could get away with lying about where the body actually went. She could always claim she thought KB was still in the tote when it burned.

Maybe KK still has some sick loyalty to PF to not want the body/remains to ever be found.

THIS.

She knew nearly irrelevant details such as PF put the container near Kelsey's Toyota before lifting to his truck? Please. I found that very strange that he would relate such a detail. If he did and also told her of the candle ruse (which I don't believe), he's gonna be vague about what he did with the remains? Nope, not buying it.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

She claimed to have taken a nap, been fed pizza and had the ibufrofen, for her headache, while with PF. If they got back to the ranchette at 1845 ish and she left an hour later, when could she have napped?

Dave's description makes it sound like she napped somewhere along the first part of her drive. Maybe the pizza was "to go" and she ate that while driving as well?

 

[Artis]

Interesting point. Folks in previous threads said that say that the 7th Day Adventists did not usually wear jewelry. But yet KKL mentioned earrings.

What did KK say about earrings? I didn't see that.

 

[SandyQLS]

It is probably nothing but from the affidavit they exchanged the baby in the alley behind KB's. They feel this is confirmed because he was then seen at Wal-Mart with the baby carrier.
He then in fairly short order is seen back at KB's on video entering the front. This can be determined from paragraphs 10 and onward in the affidavit. I can't quite make sense of this.

Was he expected back? Why pick the child up out back if the two of you are getting along, he did not enter the home? If he was expected back, why would he grab the baby first just to take on a shopping errand? Per the affidavit, they feel it confirms an exchange occurred. If the baby was indeed exchanged for visitation, then no plans existed between KB and PF and what was he doing back there? People do not generally haul a baby around for an errand if the other parent is home and one is headed right back there if they did have plans on the other hand. If that is what he was doing, then it would not be an exchange of the baby for visitation most likely.

I have no idea where I am going with this other than something about it does not make sense to me. I am not questioning the affidavit so much as what was going on.

I think the Prosecution timeline has some problems. I was just rereading the AW because some posters state PF was at KB's townhome (implying continuously) for hours on 11/22. The AW item #67 does state that PF's phone pinged in WP to the same tower for KB's townhome from approximately 1:00 to 4:30PM. And we know he was at KB's door as well as Walmart, Ent FCU, etc. all around WP that afternoon.

Was this just an early overly broad statement for the AW? Was PF always in possession of his phone or did he lose or leave it somewhere?

Is brother SF2 the only statement that PF with baby arrived shortly after 2:30PM at the ranchette in Florissant, where presumably his phone would have switched towers if PF had his phone with him? I don't think SF2 would lie.

One issue is that for the Prelim, everything the Prosecution states is taken as true, it does not have to quite add up perfectly, and only the Prosecution is making a case and only for probable cause.

 

[Artis]

Yah which makes me wonder about what all was discussed around the dinner table? Of course liars lie. So it’s possible pf had told lies about KB’s whereabouts

I don't think Kelsey would have had plans to eat at the Franch, nor do I think Ma would have wanted her there. Kelsey also didn't say anything about that (dinner with the clan) to her mom. PF mentioned, to CB (IIRC), Cracker Barrel.

 

[Artis]

We'd need a poll to know but I lean toward not believing it. He was a violent animal abuser and didn't use treats to dupe the animals before harming them. He's a big strong guy who could take Kelsey down in seconds.

 

[SandyQLS]

The affidavit has the phone call to his mother at around 3:36, paragraph 13, military time of 1536.

I too think this is somewhat one big convoluted mess. The prosecution may sort it out and simplify it, which they actually have already pretty much probably, but I suspect the defense will use the mess and number of players to muddy it right back up. imo.

Yes, AW item#13 does state 3:36PM. But CBI Slater testimony is:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
At this point, police had Frazee’s phone & records for his phone. Agents found Frazee called his mother around 4:24 p.m. They determined his phone pinged off a tower near Berreth’s townhome, heading west from there. @KOAA#KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

I'm getting another headache.

 

[ab01]

Yah which makes me wonder about what all was discussed around the dinner table? Of course liars lie. So it’s possible pf had told lies about KB’s whereabouts

I don't think Kelsey would have had plans to eat at the Franch, nor do I think Ma would have wanted her there. Kelsey also didn't say anything about that (dinner with the clan) to her mom. PF mentioned, to CB (IIRC), Cracker Barrel.

Maybe you quoted the wrong message? I was talking about pf, and his family having thanksgiving at the Franch, or at least they were all there together per Slater and May, without KB. I was referring to what may or may not have been discussed btwn the frazees moo

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I think the Prosecution timeline has some problems. I was just rereading the AW because some posters state PF was at KB's townhome (implying continuously) for hours on 11/22. The AW item #67 does state that PF's phone pinged in WP to the same tower for KB's townhome from approximately 1:00 to 4:30PM. And we know he was at KB's door as well as Walmart, Ent FCU, etc. all around WP that afternoon.

Was this just an early overly broad statement for the AW? Was PF always in possession of his phone or did he lose or leave it somewhere?

Is brother SF2 the only statement that PF with baby arrived shortly after 2:30PM at the ranchette in Florissant, where presumably his phone would have switched towers if PF had his phone with him? I don't think SF2 would lie.

One issue is that for the Prelim, everything the Prosecution states is taken as true, it does not have to quite add up perfectly, and only the Prosecution is making a case and only for probable cause.

I don't believe SF2 said that PF arrived shortly after 2:30. I think he just said after. I think the call from PF to SF1 around 4:30pmish was PF saying "I'm on my way/sorry for the delay/thanks for holding dinner" etc and he didn't get to Florissant until probably 5pm.

 

[ilovechili]

I think the Prosecution timeline has some problems. I was just rereading the AW because some posters state PF was at KB's townhome (implying continuously) for hours on 11/22. The AW item #67 does state that PF's phone pinged in WP to the same tower for KB's townhome from approximately 1:00 to 4:30PM. And we know he was at KB's door as well as Walmart, Ent FCU, etc. all around WP that afternoon.

Was this just an early overly broad statement for the AW? Was PF always in possession of his phone or did he lose or leave it somewhere?

Is brother SF2 the only statement that PF with baby arrived shortly after 2:30PM at the ranchette in Florissant, where presumably his phone would have switched towers if PF had his phone with him? I don't think SF2 would lie.

One issue is that for the Prelim, everything the Prosecution states is taken as true, it does not have to quite add up perfectly, and only the Prosecution is making a case and only for probable cause.

Yeah, there a few things that cause questions. I have been going to do a timeline of my own just to see if I can make it all fit but have not done so. Yet there are many things without specific times as well, so maybe it is meant to be overly vague in some ways or overly broad as you said.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

What did KK say about earrings? I didn't see that.

Earring reference in Paragraph 76 in AA

 

[ilovechili]

Yes, AW item#13 does state 3:36PM. But CBI Slater testimony is:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
At this point, police had Frazee’s phone & records for his phone. Agents found Frazee called his mother around 4:24 p.m. They determined his phone pinged off a tower near Berreth’s townhome, heading west from there. @KOAA#KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

I'm getting another headache.

Yes, almost an hour difference, in #13 it did say it was "around this time" but that still sounds like near 3:36 and not that much later. Could he have called his mother more than once? Otherwise, there is some mix-up, I have no idea. It is frustrating though, I agree.

 

[Artis]

I know I must have missed this but where did the candles come from and what happened to them? Did he buy them at Walmart? Sorry if this is wrong sequence but I just signed up and I am a trial and error learner.

Welcome aboard and we don't know. It's KK who told the candle story and she lies a lot so it might not even be true.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

The affidavit has the phone call to his mother at around 3:36, paragraph 13, military time of 1536.

I too think this is somewhat one big convoluted mess. The prosecution may sort it out and simplify it, which they actually have already pretty much probably, but I suspect the defense will use the mess and number of players to muddy it right back up. imo.

See attached AA.

Paragraph 13 states that he was seen on her camera at 3:36 pm. (The phone call to mom was at 4:24. Pm)

ETA oopsie I forgot to attach the screenshot

ETA oh, I see what you're getting at now..... What happened to that hour in between and where was he? Is that the point you're trying to make? Because in the arrest affidavit it says that around this time was the time that he called his mother and KKL and we now know this time to be 4:24 and 4:37 p.m.?

 

[marchioness96]

Please forgive me if this has been mentioned already, I'm a little behind all the entries. I wonder if PF told CB that KB put the gun to her head when they talked about their finances. Did that ever happen? Or was he setting the stage for her to believe that KB committed suicide? I wonder also if he never really took her gun, so never really gave it back. In other words KB never put gun to her head and he never took her gun. But he sent texts from "KB" to her mom. Pointing out in a text that she had put a gun to her head from her to her mom is really dire. Also, saying you got your gun back in a text to your mom seems odd. I just don't know timing of the texts. If the text about putting gun to head happened months ago then I guess I think it could be KB, but if it came around the time we know she was murdered and then another text came through she had her gun back and felt safe then maybe it was PF setting up a potential suicide scenerio? I'm sorry for the long post and especially if it's been covered. Also, can someone tell me more about KB going in for mental health treatment? I wonder if PF made her feel unwell mentally? Did he push her to a point where she had a breakdown? Was he behind her anxiety and stress?

AFAIK, we don't know who told CB about the gun incident, nor whether it was via phone or text. It wasn't around the time of her death but several months ago. CB reported it to LE but I don't have the link, sorry.

The text about "feeling safe" with PF came on TG night, so clearly PF sent it.

As far as KB going to a facility for mental health issues, I would absolutely put her troubles at PF's feet. She must have felt like she was in a nightmare, as the cowboy she fell for and had a baby with became increasingly controlling, manipulative and, perhaps, scary.

All JMO and MOO.

 

[MemPat]

I know I must have missed this but where did the candles come from and what happened to them? Did he buy them at Walmart? Sorry if this is wrong sequence but I just signed up and I am a trial and error learner.

Welcome, Daisyeve! We're all dying to see that Walmart receipt!

 

[ilovechili]

See attached AA.

Paragraph 13 states that he was seen on her camera at 3:36 pm. (The phone call to mom was at 4:24. Pm)

ETA oopsie I forgot to attach the screenshot

That's okay. I have the affidavit. In #13, it then goes on to say he phoned his mom and KK "around this time" meaning around 3:36.

 

[SandyQLS]

Oh Idk we often travel long distances and use rest areas, I still see plenty of single women getting out of cars by themselves. Mostly during the daytime, but also most rest stops are pretty well lit up. I don’t believe it’s as unusual as you think. Jmo

I was replying to @Dave F. because several pages back he posted a great list of official rest stops that might have cameras. My only point was that women traveling alone often prefer regular exits to those rest stops, anf fast food and gas stations might also have cameras. And Walmarts, located easily by GPS, encourages weary drivers to nap in their parking lots... if @Dave F. is looking for cameras on KK's route.

 

[Artis]

artis we discuss this a lot but I haven't seen this bit?
is it in the affidavit?
ive read it back to front multiple times and missed this if so which means my copy is clipped maybe.
appreciate a link or nudge in the right direction

The timeline is DaveF's but her alleged actions came from testimony at the prelim:

After the fire, Slater said Lee told him Frazee told her to take a nap. She told Slater he brought her two slices of pizza and an Ibuprofen because she had a headache.

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

 

[ajaylee]

I was replying to @Dave F. because several pages back he posted a great list of official rest stops that might have cameras. My only point was that women traveling alone often prefer regular exits to those rest stops, anf fast food and gas stations might also have cameras. And Walmarts, located easily by GPS, encourages weary drivers to nap in their parking lots... if @Dave F. is looking for cameras on KK's route.

I don't think it's an 'either/or'. When you've got to go, you'll settle for a rest stop instead of driving another 40 miles to an open gas station. Conversely, if you can wait a little longer and you want a drink or snack as well as a toilet, you pull over to a gas station/7-11 near the exit ramps.