CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #47 *ARREST*

[MsBetsy]

19. Upon information and belief, during periods relevant to this Amended Complaint and Jury Demand, Frazee also made to others and/or caused to be published to the press or otherwise the following untrue reports, which he knew or showed reckless disregard that they would be heard and/or read by Plaintiffs:

a. Frazee and Kelsey were not engaged;
b. Frazee and Kelsey were broken-up;
c. Frazee and Kelsey agreed to 50/50 custody of KB;
d. Kelsey was not KB’s primary caregiver;
e. Kelsey had “issues” that would warrant Frazee “getting full custody”;
f. Kelsey had been to “rehab”;
g. Kelsey left/abandoned KB in Frazee’s care;
h. Kelsey ran off;
i. Kelsey had run off before;
j. On November 25, 2018, Kelsey texted her employer stating she would not be in to work for a week;
k. On November 25, 2018, Kelsey texted Frazee; and/or
l. On November 25, 2018, Frazee spoke and/or texted with Kelsey; and
m. Frazee returned to Kelsey her keys and her gun that were in his possession.

Thank you! There were some posters the other day who had not read it and were asking about it.

 

[PommyMommy]

Thank you! There were some posters the other day who had not read it and were asking about it.

You're welcome. I edited to add #12 as well - false statements PF made to the B's directly.
MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

I just can't imagine this need for privacy and secrecy, and I tend to be imaginative.

It's very mysterious.
Is it the actual item that may be destroyed after testing or just the DNA evidence on the item? Did they specify which?

 

[Artis]

Somewhere fairly recently had a bunch of their lab work discredited from the state being fairly hinky about how blood evidence was handled. Omaha Nebraska, I think?

That's happened a few times, including with the FBI. This kind of stuff is way too important for anything to be left to trust and everything should be agreed upon and witnessed.

 

[Artis]

Totally agree with you. I dont want to lose any money.

I expect PF's case to go to trial and it is shaping up to be a doozy of a trial.

A lot of the same great points that our WS people are bringing up here will likely be the same points argued by the defense and prosecution during the trial.

Trials have been described before as a tennis match because of how the flow of a trial goes back and forth as the prosecution and defense argue their points back and forth. This trial is going to be more like a hockey game with many players in the penalty box. LOL

I'm in the he pleads not guilty camp and I hope that KK's testimony enrages him so much that he disregards atty advice and demands to testify.

 

[ajaylee]

IIRC, when this issue first came up, they agreed to set the issue aside until after PF's first hearing. I also thought the DA indicated that it wasn't a critical piece of evidence.

Now I'm wondering if I misunderstood, and he meant that it wasn't critical for the first hearing, when the judge would decide if PF would stand trial. It's sure looking like it is important for trial, though. I would really like to know why there's any pushback against the defense witnessing the testing.

 

[susiQ]

I thought, the evidence becomes destroyed after 1 lab test and wouldn't be available for further testing (defense) ...
What, if it has to do with the cinnamon rolls? LE found evidence "in" the rolls, if I don't remember wrong.

I was wondering when those darn cinnamon rolls were going to come up again

 

[Artis]

No one wants to take on that bet

I like your hockey game analogy and agree.

I have heard that some smart ones in LE and prosecution and even defense attorneys review sites like this to see where the holes in their cases may lie, if an average person (or a lot of them question something) on these various sites then they know an average juror may as well... Others scoff at it... No idea if it is true or not, but I think it would be a good jury test pool to read such things

Elsewhere on the internets I have seen the exact questions and arguments raised as here. People HATE KK and the plea deal, too.

 

[ajaylee]

I'm in the he pleads not guilty camp and I hope that KK's testimony enrages him so much that he disregards atty advice and demands to testify.

This. I don't think he's a patient guy, and I suspect being inside is driving him crazy. He would probably love to call KK on the phone and cut loose, but even he isn't that stupid.

I don't think he'll plead because he has nothing to lose, the DA really has nothing to offer for a plea deal, and because of SF.

If he does get off, I don't see how the courts could refuse him custody of Baby K. SF wants Baby K in the Frazee family.

 

[Dave F.]

Yes, I've seen several posts stating that LE ruled out the family's DNA as being found at the crime scene, but have not seen any sources for this.
Do we know if Kelsey's brother's partner was also there? The media interviewed him and her brother and I wondered if that interview took place while the family was in Colorado.
In regard to Kelseys DNA being found, I wonder if they found blood on the ceiling or other places that were not cleaned that may have been a match. Imo

CB2's partner was active on MSM during that time, making it clear that he was in Tacoma. IMO

 

[ilovechili]

Elsewhere on the internets I have seen the exact questions and arguments raised as here. People HATE KK and the plea deal, too.

Ditto. And just people I talk to when out and about and not even online are outraged.

 

[justaparent]

He has nothing to lose. He will plead not guilty.

Just my bet and I will go double or nothing....

Yeah, I agree. There’s really no motivation for him to plead guilty. His attorneys are free, although I don’t know what his costs are for testing, but I doubt he’s worried about that.

To me, he is an unfeeling psycho — kind of dead and zombie-like (there’s no life in his eyes). He doesn’t care if he drags his family through court for months or longer and of course doesn’t care at all about KB’s family. He is not capable of love.

I don’t believe he cares that much about the baby, either (except possibly as a possession). SF or other family members are likely the driving force in the custody battle. I won’t go there about my opinions of the child living in the same environment where he grew up, but it makes me shiver.

MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

IIRC, when this issue first came up, they agreed to set the issue aside until after PF's first hearing. I also thought the DA indicated that it wasn't a critical piece of evidence.

Now I'm wondering if I misunderstood, and he meant that it wasn't critical for the first hearing, when the judge would decide if PF would stand trial. It's sure looking like it is important for trial, though. I would really like to know why there's any pushback against the defense witnessing the testing.

I don't think he said it wasn't a critical piece of evidence. I remember him saying it was not as critical as they thought, in terms of testing it right away. Imo

 

[Kapua]

This. I don't think he's a patient guy, and I suspect being inside is driving him crazy. He would probably love to call KK on the phone and cut loose, but even he isn't that stupid.

I don't think he'll plead because he has nothing to lose, the DA really has nothing to offer for a plea deal, and because of SF.

If he does get off, I don't see how the courts could refuse him custody of Baby K. SF wants Baby K in the Frazee family.

IMHO, there is a less than 0.01% chance that PF is getting off, just based on what we've seen so far. And there is more evidence to come.

 

[ajaylee]

I don't think he said it wasn't a critical piece of evidence. I remember him saying it was not as critical as they thought, in terms of testing it right away. Imo

I'll go with that, my memory is on overload!

I don't like seeing the word 'critical' mentioned in the same sentence as PF and 'can only be tested once'.

 

[LovesPeace2]

I'm wondering if they found something in the plastic balls from the fire that may need testing and testing it would destroy the evidence. Moo

 

[Dave F.]

That's happened a few times, including with the FBI. This kind of stuff is way too important for anything to be left to trust and everything should be agreed upon and witnessed.

Montana still has new trials pending for numerous people convicted decades ago, or dropped; because a longtime state lab director tainted so many cases. In retirement, he defends himself with the claim that his science was sound, and it was the juries' duty to interpret whether his findings were proper under the law. The most notable case, the overturned 1987 conviction of Jimmy Ray Bromgard for the violent rape of a child was based on hairs recovered being "indistinguishable from that of the defendant". Bromgard was exhonerated in 2002 by DNA evidence, a product of The Innocence Project. In civil court, substantial punitive damages were awarded on the basis of Bromgard having been denied any career means to make a living by the 40 year wrongful sentence. While grateful, he is understandably quite bitter. The real rapist has been identified by DNA, and Montana is taking the fight to prosecute him after so long a time,to the Supreme Court. No one knows how the SCOTUS will rule. In 1987, he was a doppelganger for Bromgard.
Trial on hold for 2nd suspect in 8-year-old's rape as Montana Supreme Court considers reversing ruling

 

[Dave F.]

I'm wondering if they found something in the plastic balls from the fire that may need testing and testing it would destroy the evidence. Moo

Polyethelene plastic, gasoline and motor oil are similar chemical compounds that can be separated and fully identified by non-destructive testing. A single little black ball may end up as multiple lab slides, but that isn't destruction. IMO

 

[Kapua]

Elsewhere on the internets I have seen the exact questions and arguments raised as here. People HATE KK and the plea deal, too.

Personally, I have reached the "acceptance" stage WRT the plea deal, as in "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change." MOO

 

[UnicornDragon]

I can't imagine lifting something that heavy while climbing a ladder and keeping your balance without either PF or the tote falling to the ground. Or both. Imo

Oh, I think it's improbable and I don't believe the claims as they are, but I'm not willing to say it's impossible.