CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #47 *ARREST*

[ilovechili]

Thanks, PommyMommy, for the great job of posting all of the tweets! You rock!

So... should we assume that the defendant will enter a plea of not guilty? Because if he pleads guilty, he doesn't get a trial by jury, only a sentence by the judge.

I expect him to plead not guilty and have no doubt at all. For one thing, I believe even months from now he can always change his mind and plead guilty and can make a deal (if even possible) right up to trial and even during. So why would one not do so? Maybe a guilty feeling remorseful man that lost it with his wife and did not mean to might... I do not see a case like this and a defendant like PF doing anything like that.

He has nothing to lose. He will plead not guilty.

Just my bet and I will go double or nothing....

 

[MemPat]

I’ve followed cases on websleuths for awhile now but never been so personally affected as I have with KB, and never posted on here before but I wanted to share a link. I’m not sure if this has made national news, because it’s *somewhat* local to me, but this case is so eerily similar to KB’s, so I thought it might be relevant in the sense of watching both cases unravel and looking for more possible similarities/comparisons. I haven’t found the websleuths page for this case yet, but it there is one that any of you know of, please link.


Air Force major, based in S.A., suspected in wife's death https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Air-Force-major-based-in-San-Antonio-suspected-13660143.php?t=15b849e8d8

Welcome, ANWtx! Nice to meet you!

 

[oviedo]

The link to order a transcript is in the post below. FWIW, one hour of testimony = approx 50 pages of transcript.

We just had a case where the plaintiff ordered and paid for the transcript and it was entered into the court file and available - the defendant's attorney did not read the transcript and when they filed a motion with the court they had incorrect data and lost that motion at hearing. In our litigation (not criminal) we routinely order the transcripts if we think we will need to use it at trial or on a motion for summary judgment. Since this hearing seemed to benefit the prosecution - I believe if they need it at trial, they will order it - now whether they enter it in the court file would be a matter of their policy in CO. It would help to have a different CO criminal trial docket to see if a transcript of the hearing was entered - I think CW entered his plea so there was no hearing IIRC? JMO

 

[Kapua]

It is my opinion that PF had cattle on the Nash Ranch and a Ranch in Westcliffe. The Nash Ranch was a large operation at one time covering two Counties and some 40,000 acres. Portions of the ranch have been subdivided but other remote portions still have grazing and facilities to handle cattle and barns for hay storage. The Westcliffe pasture may not have been as well equipped but remember PF leased what he could get. PF took KB with him on the 21st to feed at both places. This would have been after she worked in Pueblo all day and then drove back to WP. She more than likely got up around 4AM to get ready for work, drop the baby off for the prearranged day care and then drive one and half hours to work. Reverse that time driving home to WP and then being asked to help PF feed that night so they could enjoy TG together. PF keeps KB out and up until 4AM on the 22nd. In other words he makes sure she doesn’t get sleep for 24 hours plus take care of the baby.
The Nash Ranch lies below Cripple Creek and has many dead zones for cell service. Westcliffe is located south of the Arkansas River and is a hour and half hour drive through the mountains from the Nash Ranch. Westcliffe also has many dead zones for cell.
PF had full access to the barn and Tractor at the Nash Ranch. My guess is it was his hay in the barn. He needed no help getting the tote to the top of the hay so I can see no reason he needed KK to help him get the tote out and to the front yard of mom’s for burning. I see no reason for KK to set around and watch the fire when she has 800 miles to drive and she hasn’t sleept in over a day. Mom even joins in watching the fire. In fact it is almost a little rutualistic the way it is handled. I can’t help but wonder if they threw KB’s Bible splattered with her blood on the fire.

It is just so unusual to let so many people know about your plans for a murder and nobody really thinks enough about it to warn anyone.

Poor KB, she must have been exhausted most of the time with commuting, working full time, taking care of an infant, and dealing with a grown-up who acts like an infant. MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

Thanks, PommyMommy, for the great job of posting all of the tweets! You rock!

So... should we assume that the defendant will enter a plea of not guilty? Because if he pleads guilty, he doesn't get a trial by jury, only a sentence by the judge.

I definitely expect a not guilty plea.

I expect him to plead not guilty and have no doubt at all. For one thing, I believe even months from now he can always change his mind and plead guilty and can make a deal (if even possible) right up to trial and even during. So why would one not do so? Maybe a guilty feeling remorseful man that lost it with his wife and did not mean to might... I do not see a case like this and a defendant like PF doing anything like that.

He has nothing to lose. He will plead not guilty.

Just my bet and I will go double or nothing....

I agree. At this point, anyway. On down the road, things could change.
MOO

 

[ilovechili]

We just had a case where the plaintiff ordered and paid for the transcript and it was entered into the court file and available - the defendant's attorney did not read the transcript and when they filed a motion with the court they had incorrect data and lost that motion at hearing. In our litigation (not criminal) we routinely order the transcripts if we think we will need to use it at trial or on a motion for summary judgment. Since this hearing seemed to benefit the prosecution - I believe if they need it at trial, they will order it - now whether they enter it in the court file would be a matter of their policy in CO. It would help to have a different CO criminal trial docket to see if a transcript of the hearing was entered - I think CW entered his plea so there was no hearing IIRC? JMO

From what I have seen (not in Colorado) a request for a transcript is shown on the record. So is payment the last I knew. Who requested it I do not believe is shown (unsure on that one but I do not believe so). And they are useful to the sides in court, it is sworn testimony by often officers, etc. So then later one can use it if testimony changes or memories are forgetful.

What you just described shows which side in that case was more on the ball.

I am no expert but have seen it.

Maybe Colorado is different, I have no idea.

I do agree though that both sides of this case would want each and every transcript.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

What in the world is this mystery about the consumptive testing? Not a peep from investigators as to what it is, where it was found, why it matters so much. And the only thing I can think of why the Defense expert cannot observe a certain stage of the testing process is that it occurs in a small chamber where only one person can fit? Anyone know about lab procedures?

I thought, the evidence becomes destroyed after 1 lab test and wouldn't be available for further testing (defense) ...
What, if it has to do with the cinnamon rolls? LE found evidence "in" the rolls, if I don't remember wrong.

 

[Kapua]

I expect him to plead not guilty and have no doubt at all. For one thing, I believe even months from now he can always change his mind and plead guilty and can make a deal (if even possible) right up to trial and even during. So why would one not do so? Maybe a guilty feeling remorseful man that lost it with his wife and did not mean to might... I do not see a case like this and a defendant like PF doing anything like that.

He has nothing to lose. He will plead not guilty.

Just my bet and I will go double or nothing....

Mark Hacking comes to mind. He's the odd one out of all of these perps. I certainly would not take that bet. I think everyone expects PF to plead guilty.

The defense is already leaning heavily on the "we need to ensure a fair trial" aspect of this case. I'm pretty sure that most if not all of the locals are aware of this case. Jury selection should take a while. I still think they might go for a change of venue with such a small jury pool. MOO

 

[UnicornDragon]

Why would they care if defense has their expert in the lab? I don't get it.

Somewhere fairly recently had a bunch of their lab work discredited from the state being fairly hinky about how blood evidence was handled. Omaha Nebraska, I think?

 

[Kapua]

So if we presume that they have some small piece of evidence that they want to test for DNA - whose DNA? It could be KKL's because it would not be unusual to find PF's DNA in KB's condo. OR, it could be KB's on the mop found at the Franchette. What else?

 

[ilovechili]

Mark Hacking comes to mind. He's the odd one out of all of these perps. I certainly would not take that bet. I think everyone expects PF to plead guilty.

The defense is already leaning heavily on the "we need to ensure a fair trial" aspect of this case. I'm pretty sure that most if not all of the locals are aware of this case. Jury selection should take a while. I still think they might go for a change of venue with such a small jury pool. MOO

I know who Mark Hacking somewhere in my head but can't bring it to mind right now...

I agree the fair trial, all about the defendant having a fair trial, mentioned more than once about the small pool in Teller County, then move for a change of venue... They could do that now I think if concerned but doing it later may help with a delay? I think on the other hand that part of Teller County does not believe he is guilty so they may use that defense in court but prefer it to be held there....

Yah, I would be really surprised if he pled guilty. That would be all done, he goes away on all counts... Why would he do that?

 

[PommyMommy]

So if we presume that they have some small piece of evidence that they want to test for DNA - whose DNA? It could be KKL's because it would not be unusual to find PF's DNA in KB's condo. OR, it could be KB's on the mop found at the Franchette. What else?

I'm thinking it's the unknown DNA from the sink.
MOO

 

[mustloveco]

Good morning! As some of you know I was
Having problems logging on with my
Phone... well ,
I got
A
New phone!

To answer @PommyMommy Question, yes
I will take the dog
For a walk over
There. And photograph it --
What am I looking
For again?!

 

[?mysterian?]

Time ago I did understand, PF used a ladder to climb up with the tote (and wondered about his strength/power) and he used the tractor, to bring the tote down from above. - What is the ladder-thingi? When did he use it?

Yes, you're right, there was something about a ladder mentioned, but the way it was described at the time, I had a hard time visualizing PF using it as it was described. I think he might be strong, but I'm not sure he could lift a bulky 100+ lbs. tote onto a ladder and up onto stacks of hay bales (round bales? square bales? How high were the stacks?), but maybe he's stronger than he looks. I know people wrasslin' calves/steers/etc. and working with horses/farrier work/lifting hay/straw is physically demanding, but PF (in the few photos I've seen) doesn't appear to be very muscled, IMO. Yes, appearances can be deceiving...

 

[oviedo]

From what I have seen (not in Colorado) a request for a transcript is shown on the record. So is payment the last I knew. Who requested it I do not believe is shown (unsure on that one but I do not believe so). And they are useful to the sides in court, it is sworn testimony by often officers, etc. So then later one can use it if testimony changes or memories are forgetful.

What you just described shows which side in that case was more on the ball.

I am no expert but have seen it.

Maybe Colorado is different, I have no idea.

I do agree though that both sides of this case would want each and every transcript.

Exactly and I expect the state to order the transcript but they do not have to file it with the Court - this may force the defense to order and pay for it as well - it's a strategy some use - make the other side pay. But once it is in the court record - you can save and print it at any copy place or your own printer. The last one we paid for was over 1,000 pages. If the state wants the public record to correctly reflect what happened in the hearing - I expect to see it filed at some point. JMO

 

[PommyMommy]

Good morning! As some of you know I was
Having problems logging on with my
Phone... well ,
I got
A
New phone!

To answer @PommyMommy Question, yes
I will take the dog
For a walk over
There. And photograph it --
What am I looking
For again?!

Glad you resolved your phone problem, and welcome back! There was a photo posted of what looks like a camera and a light on the unit west of KB's. We'd like a close-up, please. I will see if I can find the photo. If someone has it handy, please post. TIA
MOO

 

[mustloveco]

Glad you resolved your phone problem, and welcome back! There was a photo posted of what looks like a camera and a light on the unit west of KB's. We'd like a close-up, please. I will see if I can find the photo. If someone has it handy, please post. TIA
MOO

A camera in her next door neighbor, her neighbor
To the west?! Strange I never noticed
It
Before

 

[Hatfield]

He has nothing to lose. He will plead not guilty.

Just my bet and I will go double or nothing....

Totally agree with you. I dont want to lose any money.

I expect PF's case to go to trial and it is shaping up to be a doozy of a trial.

A lot of the same great points that our WS people are bringing up here will likely be the same points argued by the defense and prosecution during the trial.

Trials have been described before as a tennis match because of how the flow of a trial goes back and forth as the prosecution and defense argue their points back and forth. This trial is going to be more like a hockey game with many players in the penalty box. LOL

 

[?mysterian?]

Good morning! As some of you know I was
Having problems logging on with my
Phone... well ,
I got
A
New phone!

To answer @PommyMommy Question, yes
I will take the dog
For a walk over
There. And photograph it --
What am I looking
For again?!

Thank you for all your efforts for us and this case. Your (and the other locals') input is so helpful to have.

 

[PommyMommy]

A camera in her next door neighbor, her neighbor
To the west?! Strange I never noticed
It
Before

The original photo is from your post here: Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #19 *ARREST*

This one:

See the satellite dish on the neighbor's roof? Just below that, and above the fence, there are two white things on the wall. One looks like a camera and the other may possibly be a light.

We appreciate your help so much!

ETA: Possible camera and/or light circled: