CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #47 *ARREST*

[Seattle1]

They can and did. A conservator for baby K filed a state wrongful death action in Teller County, Co on behalf of KB on 2/15/19. [Case #2019CV30014].

ETA behalf of baby KB

 

[lindaromas]

It is alleged that KB’s body was burned in a water trough in the front yard while KK and SF watched. Was baby K brought outside to watch her mother’s body burn? We have not yet found the bottom of this groups deprivity. I don’t think PF looked at baby K as nothing more than any of his possessions. Same level as his cattle, horses , or dogs. In my opinion he is that deprived of any human spirit.
I would like to know more about the water trough used. Typically they are of thin sheet metal construction with a cheaply welded seam down the middle of the bottom. Not built for heat and would probably leak during the fire. It has to be a treasure trove of evidence. What he did with it is very important. I also do not believe PF was able to get the fire hot enough for complete cremation. There were most likely a lot of remains and not dust to dispose of.
Finally I don’t think he will plead guilty. He has nothing but time on his hands for the rest of his life so he will play it for all it is worth.

For some reason I don’t think he burned her body. I think it may have been clothes from the crime and other things from the crime

 

[MsJosie]

For some reason I don’t think he burned her body. I think it may have been clothes from the crime and other things from the crime

I have wondered about the that. Bags of evidence burned. The next question is where is the body? Was there a wood chipper anywhere around?

 

[Kapua]

I have wondered about the that. Bags of evidence burned. The next question is where is the body? Was there a wood chipper anywhere around?

I've been wondering about the evidence removed from KB's condo and also from the ranchette. LE searched the ranchette for a solid day, IIRC. Did they find anything of evidentiary value?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Chronic fatigue is one of the symptoms of persistent and deep depression and I speak from personal experience. Add in a baby and a job with a commute and I can see her always being tired.

... and think of KB's nightly cattle checking tours, she had to absolve for her lovely "ranchetter" .... who knows, what else she had to do for him in her limited free time.

 

[gngr~snap]

I recall the only reference to the trough is AA statement #73 where the trough is described as round aluminum with approximately 100 gallon capacity. PF allegedly added accelerants and wood to keep fire going.

I'm going to continue to hope that KB was not cremated in that trough fire, and her remains will be located elsewhere.

I'm thinking the burn is a lie to throw them off.
She is probably buried or her intact body was dumped.
I dont even believe the baseball bat anymore.
Grandiose embellishments in tale telling is my opinion.
PATHOLOGICAL LIAR COMES TO MIND. (KK)
Moo

 

[NanZDrew]

It is alleged that KB’s body was burned in a water trough in the front yard while KK and SF watched. Was baby K brought outside to watch her mother’s body burn? We have not yet found the bottom of this groups deprivity. I don’t think PF looked at baby K as nothing more than any of his possessions. Same level as his cattle, horses , or dogs. In my opinion he is that deprived of any human spirit.
I would like to know more about the water trough used. Typically they are of thin sheet metal construction with a cheaply welded seam down the middle of the bottom. Not built for heat and would probably leak during the fire. It has to be a treasure trove of evidence. What he did with it is very important. I also do not believe PF was able to get the fire hot enough for complete cremation. There were most likely a lot of remains and not dust to dispose of.
Finally I don’t think he will plead guilty. He has nothing but time on his hands for the rest of his life so he will play it for all it is worth.

Looks like this although KKL may have misjudged the volume of the trough. 100 gallon troughs are usually oblong.

 

[Livelove61364]

I've read over the numerous threads over the past week, and formed a somewhat theory. I have a kind of wild imagination that tends to run rampant, so please, take a small jog with me. Just go easy on me, with the rebuttals I KNOW I will receive!

PF told KK there would be another chance,

This is where things immediately get interesting for me! We know KB liked her once a week Chai Latte (don't we all?). WHAT IF, PF had her so worn out and met her with said drink, during his pickup for baby K? With the price for them, I know I would accept! Could he have drugged it? Could KKL have given him enough Xanax, Soma, or the like to put in it that KB's body couldn't handle it? OR could he have switched up any of the medication she may have been on for anxiety/depression for something that appeared similar? With KKL's background she would have had the knowledge of the appearance of a good amount of prescriptions.

“If you can’t do it, I’m gonna have to,”... Slater thought that was around Oct. 23.

IMO it's REALLY DIFFICULT & extreem to go from poisoning someone to an all out blood bath murder. I don't see it!

My personal theory: PF figured out how to poison her (something in the Chai) and incapacitate her until KKL got there(ie: "you have a mess to clean up"). (black tote w/silver handles) PF & KKL weren't counting on the tote being air tight, KB dies from a mixture of overdose, lack of oxygen, & carbon monoxide poisoning. There is no blood (let's face it KKL is a pathological liar), aside from tampons and typical menses blood found in the home of a typical "child bearing-aged female"!

Ok you all can start your hole punching now. We all know PF & KKL are neither smart nor very good at hiding ANYTHING. Although, my sights are aimed on KKL for this. She jumped WWAAAAAAYYY too quickly at a plea deal for comfort, for just evidence tampering JMO of course.

 

[Seattle1]

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Sam Kraemer Retweeted **********

Nope. Same rules as last time

Sam Kraemer added,
@*********
Replying to @SamKraemerTV @KOAA
Will there be camera's in the court tomorrow for the consumptive testing hearing?

6:01 PM - 3 Mar 2019 pst

 

[ilovechili]

I remember reading in the arrest affidavit she suggested the medications which would make sense to me in a warped world. These are people with multiple guns yet they use a bat. It is just really puzzling. So, you wear a basic surgical covering to do the cleaning after using a bat. What?

Great points. I have given up trying to find logic in this story or in their actions. I waver between thinking much is fabricated to thinking they are just this stupid, or a combination of both. Very little makes sense.

It also occurred to me just recently most of us look at him with the bat as some kind of rage and need on his part. However, he tried to get KK to use a metal rod and a bat as well which belies his need to take out that anger on her himself. Why?? This makes no sense to me either. He seemed to have some type of need to see her hurt as severely as possible? This would also make me tend to believe poisoning coffee and bringing coffee was KK's idea because the other suggestions are all bats and rods and what he eventually used was allegedly a bat. And those were likely his idea...?

 

[ilovechili]

Why would the burden of proof on a solicitation charge be any different than any other? It still requires evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and her, making that claim, in light of her own admitted trips to kill Kelsey, could easily be disbelieved. Is solicitation not a separate charge on which he could be found not guilty while still be convicted of the murder?

I see them as separate and distinct charges but am no expert.

I also think the solicitation charges will be the most difficult to prove. In the murder, there is at least some evidence likely from the KB residence and PF residence/firepit, etc. With the solicitation, occurring long before, and her own destruction of phones, etc, I wonder if she has one single message or text or anything that can back up that he ever solicited her and that it was not a mutual talk and ideas?

All I can think of other than that to prove such a thing would be her friend who she told (hearsay and not enough to sway a jury imo) and KK's own testimony. Even proof of a trip to KB's would not prove it because it still could have been her own idea or their idea.

jmo.

 

[ilovechili]

That reminds me...

Early in the case, this came up, right? And, wasn't that piece of evidence something recovered in Idaho where a discussion ensued as to how to best transport it to Colorado? I'm not sure if it's the same piece of evidence being talked about but, if it is, I can imagine the prosecution not wanting the defense around for testing if that evidence was something like a speck of blood on Krystal's baseball bat. Just some wild speculation there. In such a case, if the DNA belonged to Kelsey, it would not necessarily implicate KK as the killer but it would show that she brought the bat back with her. However, it could create doubt for a jury as to whether KK might have been the killer. If there aren't phone pings from her, in Idaho, prior to and on Thanksgiving and, we know she turned off the Google location app, it might give the defense an opening to finger KK as the one who swung the bat.

If the evidence came from ID, I would guess the guns or one of them, something that came from a vehicle she used (can ash be tested?), or something she kept or they found that we are unaware of... Blowback from a gun has been theorized by some experts...

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I've read over the numerous threads over the past week, and formed a somewhat theory. I have a kind of wild imagination that tends to run rampant, so please, take a small jog with me. Just go easy on me, with the rebuttals I KNOW I will receive!



This is where things immediately get interesting for me! We know KB liked her once a week Chai Latte (don't we all?). WHAT IF, PF had her so worn out and met her with said drink, during his pickup for baby K? With the price for them, I know I would accept! Could he have drugged it? Could KKL have given him enough Xanax, Soma, or the like to put in it that KB's body couldn't handle it? OR could he have switched up any of the medication she may have been on for anxiety/depression for something that appeared similar? With KKL's background she would have had the knowledge of the appearance of a good amount of prescriptions.

IMO it's REALLY DIFFICULT & extreem to go from poisoning someone to an all out blood bath murder. I don't see it!

My personal theory: PF figured out how to poison her (something in the Chai) and incapacitate her until KKL got there(ie: "you have a mess to clean up"). (black tote w/silver handles) PF & KKL weren't counting on the tote being air tight, KB dies from a mixture of overdose, lack of oxygen, & carbon monoxide poisoning. There is no blood (let's face it KKL is a pathological liar), aside from tampons and typical menses blood found in the home of a typical "child bearing-aged female"!

Ok you all can start your hole punching now. We all know PF & KKL are neither smart nor very good at hiding ANYTHING. Although, my sights are aimed on KKL for this. She jumped WWAAAAAAYYY too quickly at a plea deal for comfort, for just evidence tampering JMO of course.

They may have poisoned KB successively since September perhaps with KKL giving the tips re medication and PF as the performer, for testing purposes (or not only for that). Bat or steel rod always ready somewhere for the "finish". (Sorry) If you imagine KB's exhausted and sick condition, IF it had been like that! And if you imagine her dangerous JOB, where KB had to be as fit as possible!
I don't find the idea totally absurd. Not with this nasty couple. MOO

 

[ilovechili]

I've read over the numerous threads over the past week, and formed a somewhat theory. I have a kind of wild imagination that tends to run rampant, so please, take a small jog with me. Just go easy on me, with the rebuttals I KNOW I will receive!



This is where things immediately get interesting for me! We know KB liked her once a week Chai Latte (don't we all?). WHAT IF, PF had her so worn out and met her with said drink, during his pickup for baby K? With the price for them, I know I would accept! Could he have drugged it? Could KKL have given him enough Xanax, Soma, or the like to put in it that KB's body couldn't handle it? OR could he have switched up any of the medication she may have been on for anxiety/depression for something that appeared similar? With KKL's background she would have had the knowledge of the appearance of a good amount of prescriptions.

IMO it's REALLY DIFFICULT & extreem to go from poisoning someone to an all out blood bath murder. I don't see it!

My personal theory: PF figured out how to poison her (something in the Chai) and incapacitate her until KKL got there(ie: "you have a mess to clean up"). (black tote w/silver handles) PF & KKL weren't counting on the tote being air tight, KB dies from a mixture of overdose, lack of oxygen, & carbon monoxide poisoning. There is no blood (let's face it KKL is a pathological liar), aside from tampons and typical menses blood found in the home of a typical "child bearing-aged female"!

Ok you all can start your hole punching now. We all know PF & KKL are neither smart nor very good at hiding ANYTHING. Although, my sights are aimed on KKL for this. She jumped WWAAAAAAYYY too quickly at a plea deal for comfort, for just evidence tampering JMO of course.

Welcome!

I am not going to punch holes. Your theory is as good as any. Considering the number of lies in this case by both players, nothing would surprise me. I too have thought of her being incapacitated and even just moved while incapacitated (and not yet dead). My thoughts do not match yours exactly but there are elements of it that have crossed my mind. For some reason, my instinct tells me both were involved in the actual murder but I can't say that is a fact, I just see KK having either a need to be present or at the very least a need to see the body.

jmo.

 

[ilovechili]

They may have poisoned KB successively since September perhaps with KKL giving the tips re medication and PF as the performer, for testing purposes (or not only for that). Bat or steel rod always ready somewhere for the "finish". (Sorry) If you imagine KB's exhausted and sick condition, IF it had been like that! And if you imagine her dangerous JOB, where KB had to be as fit as possible!
I don't find the idea totally absurd. Not with this nasty couple. MOO

I too have thought of this. Dealing with PF alone is enough for exhaustion and depression, add in a young child and a full time job and long commute. However, when I think of his efforts to make her sound as if she was in rehab, convince people she has issues, etc., I think of other cases where that is exactly what they were doing is slipping something into the bottle of soda in the refrigerator or into their coffee, etc. and making their wife or gf look crazy or drunk or on something, etc. Or like an unfit mother...

It would not even have to be constant/continual depending on the goal...

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm thinking the burn is a lie to throw them off.
She is probably buried or her intact body was dumped.
I dont even believe the baseball bat anymore.
Grandiose embellishments in tale telling is my opinion.
PATHOLOGICAL LIAR COMES TO MIND. (KK)
Moo

It makes sense that the body may not have been burned with the storage container. She claimed she never saw the body so she really can't get caught in a lie. It never made sense to me that they would burn the body right in the tote.
If they do find the body unburned, they can determine whether or not she was struck with a baseball bat, and they won't need her testimony so much after all.
The question is would they be able to prove she was lying. I guess that would depend on the phone data. If they spoke about it on the burner phones it would likely be hard to prove.

 

[Hatfield]

For some reason I don’t think he burned her body. I think it may have been clothes from the crime and other things from the crime

JMO
I am with you on this right now. I am leaning to either PF or both of them dumped or buried her body somewhere near Nash farm. I think KK conveniently says she never saw the body in the tote as it was being burned so she can never be caught in that lie because its her word against his, and she can always claim she thought the body was in the tote as it was being burned.

Also I have burned tons of tree limbs and based on experience of burning I know how difficult it would be to try to burn a body down completely and I know PF would know that too so I dont think he would even attempt it because it would hardly ever burn cleanly down and he would just create more of a mess. But I have never used oil in my fires so if that works better than I think it would then I suppose its possible he did try to burn her but right now I am thinking they only burnt the tote and the last of the evidence.

The tote needed burning anyway since it would have had blood stains and body fluids (sorry so gross).

 

[lindaromas]

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Sam Kraemer Retweeted **********

Nope. Same rules as last time

Sam Kraemer added,
@*********
Replying to @SamKraemerTV @KOAA
Will there be camera's in the court tomorrow for the consumptive testing hearing?

6:01 PM - 3 Mar 2019 pst

Did I read cameras will be allowed April 5th?

 

[enelram]

Someone asked earlier about whether or not KB would have had a DNA sample on file due to her Pilots licensing.
I believe it was DaveF asking.
I checked with my family member who is a career commercial
pilot of 30+ years and he said: He has never been asked to
submit a DNA sample for licensing or employment. He's
worked for numerous employers flying passenger airliners
as well as cargo and service providers as well as being a former
military pilot.
So it's not likely KB's DNA is on file unless it's now customary
when one gives birth in a hospital. I'm too old to know about that.

 

[Seattle1]

Did I read cameras will be allowed April 5th?

Hope so. Unless the Court objects, "Arraignments" are permitted for expanded media coverage (EMC).