CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #47 *ARREST*

[Kapua]

I believe finger printing is the norm for some occupations/licenses but I'm also not aware of DNA profiles on file for pilots.

I believe investigators would be able to extract DNA from test samples of KB's toothbrush or hairbrush. MOO

Fingerprinting is the norm for government civilians and contractors.

 

[MsBetsy]

The cadaver dogs hit on the one, discolored hay bale. I think she was burned in the tote, as bizarre as that seems. LE must think so, too, because they are searching the landfill. MOO

Yes, I thought so too. But I guess it's possible that he could have removed the body at some point before the fire. Imo

 

[Livelove61364]

The only real challenge I see to your theory is that if they managed to successfully poison her, there would be no reason to hide her body -- it would then look like a suicide like they supposedly wanted. So no tote nor burning needed.

Also I think we know with pretty high certainty that LE found far more blood than a menstrual period could produce, not to mention that menstrual blood can be distinguished chemically from vein/artery blood. If LE knew that the blood found was menstrual blood, I don't think they would have said with such confidence that KB was dead.

The whole thing is so bizarre...

The blood is the only place I have issues explaining. Unless KK decided that her rage needed to be expressed as well! And then its a whole new ball game. As for the "staged suicide theory" the only reason to hide the body/burn the body is so that a medical examiner wouldn't find rhat her meds were switched or she was actually poisoned

Furthermore in no relation to this part...

"Cremation of a dead body is carried out at a temperature ranging between 1400 to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit. The intense heat helps reduce the body to its basic elements and dried bone fragments...

There is usually no smell because the emissions are processed to destroy the smoke and vaporize the gases that would smell...

On an average, it takes about one to three hours to cremate a human body,"

Please note this is typically what is done at a crematorium. As for if PF would be able to achieve that amount heat with gasoline, motor oil, & a 100 gallon trough... My brain says no, but I'm no expert

Citations:
How Is A Body Cremated? – Cremation Resource


This could be part of the reason why "Google records" are being kept under strict confidence ?

 

[Snowsnake]

The burn ring is visible in the KOAA TV drone wideo of PF's ranch taken December 14th, and that exact trough, or one of the others that he had just like it, is also visible. It was of similar construction to this sales page:
Hastings 22GA Steel Round Stock Tank - 3' x 2' - 101 Gallon
The burn spot was the faint round ring below the point of the arrow in this still shot from the KOAA drone video:

The 3 foot tank would not hold a lot of wood but old drain oil would make for a much hotter fire. All round tanks have a drain plug in the bottom. Some are made of plastic and would rapidly burn and leak. In any event the bottom is 20 gauge steel which you can flex with your hand. There is also a cheaply welded seem in the middle of the tank with some coating over it to help prevent water leakage not fire. I think their would be an abundance of evidence around the burn site using this type of tank which is a standard Galvanized stock tank.

 

[GordianKnot]

It just amazes me sometimes how many monsters live among us

The thought of all these monsters roaming the earth dismays and disheartens me, too.

But, then I remember all those searchers out there at that landfill, working diligently to find KB.

And the LEOs who worked so hard to ferret out the truth despite all of PF's and KK's (brilliant!) efforts to conceal their crimes.

And DA Dan May, who is going to make sure KB receives whatever justice he can afford her, which is to say, he's going to nail PF's hide to a cell wall for the rest of his miserable, evil, unholy life.

And all of the good people here who have invested so much time and emotional energy into KB's case.

Goodness does ultimately prevail over evil.
"The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it."

JMO.

 

[ajaylee]

The 3 foot tank would not hold a lot of wood but old drain oil would make for a much hotter fire. All round tanks have a drain plug in the bottom. Some are made of plastic and would rapidly burn and leak. In any event the bottom is 20 gauge steel which you can flex with your hand. There is also a cheaply welded seem in the middle of the tank with some coating over it to help prevent water leakage not fire. I think their would be an abundance of evidence around the burn site using this type of tank which is a standard Galvanized stock tank.

I don't know how this bit of data fits into that scenario. LE found bits of black plastic and evidence of accelerant at the site where KK told them the burn took place.

That sounds like the tank 'leaked' at some point?

eta: I decided to google 100-gallon stock tanks to see what's out there. I don't know how to post a picture and it was news to me, but Rubbermaid makes black plastic stock tanks.

Rubbermaid Structural Foam Stock Tanks, 100 gal. Capacity at Tractor Supply Co.

Here is a 100-gallon galvanized stock tank that is oval: 2'x4'x2'.

CountyLine Oval Galvanized Stock Tank, 2 ft. W x 4 ft. L x 2 ft. H, 100 gal. Capacity , WT224 at Tractor Supply Co.

 

[GordianKnot]

Without any question, I absolutely believe KK's account that PF burned KB's body.
The sweetie beauty of a deal saving her well-worn hide depends on her giving a truthful recitation of events.

I think there were physical remains that remained, which he disposed of after the fire.
Hence the landfill search.

JMO.

 

[enelram]

The 3 foot tank would not hold a lot of wood but old drain oil would make for a much hotter fire. All round tanks have a drain plug in the bottom. Some are made of plastic and would rapidly burn and leak. In any event the bottom is 20 gauge steel which you can flex with your hand. There is also a cheaply welded seem in the middle of the tank with some coating over it to help prevent water leakage not fire. I think their would be an abundance of evidence around the burn site using this type of tank which is a standard Galvanized stock tank.

Great points, thank you. I forgot about the drain plug but
you're right. And about leaking, I've had to use JB Weld on
a couple of fairly new tanks that leaked at the seam.

 

[susiQ]

I know, SusiQ, the thought of all these monsters roaming the earth dismays and disheartens me, too.

But, then, I remember all those searchers out there at that landfill, diligently working to find KB.

And the LEOs who worked so hard to ferret out the truth despite all of PF and KK's (brilliant!) lies.
And DA Dan May, who is going to make sure KB receives whatever justice he can afford her, which is to say, he's going to nail PF's hide to a cell wall for the rest of his miserable, evil, unholy life.
And all of the good people here who have invested so much time and emotional energy into KB's case.

Goodness does ultimately prevail over evil.

"The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it."

JMO.

Absolutely agree! Well said, indeed.

 

[ilovechili]

Another bit of data that makes zero sense to me: KK took the metal rod back to the ranchette and left it by the gate, IIRC.

??? OK, for someone who is driving 800 miles roundtrip to see her guy, I guess an extra round trip from WP to the ranchette is nothing, but why did she return the metal rod? There was no 'evidence' on it because she hadn't used it.

Yes, I find that odd too. Extremely odd. It makes me think of the mop and bleach. Found at the ranch with blood. No conclusions yet. Almost like anything loaned by a Frazee must be returned? I know it may sound ludicrous but I have known the type that would have a fit if you did not return a paper clip. One thought anyhow.

Otherwise, what would be the reason? Was it maybe a tire iron or a cattle prod he wanted back?

Very strange like everything else in this case...

 

[PommyMommy]

It is alleged that KB’s body was burned in a water trough in the front yard while KK and SF watched. Was baby K brought outside to watch her mother’s body burn? We have not yet found the bottom of this groups deprivity. I don’t think PF looked at baby K as nothing more than any of his possessions. Same level as his cattle, horses , or dogs. In my opinion he is that deprived of any human spirit.
I would like to know more about the water trough used. Typically they are of thin sheet metal construction with a cheaply welded seam down the middle of the bottom. Not built for heat and would probably leak during the fire. It has to be a treasure trove of evidence. What he did with it is very important. I also do not believe PF was able to get the fire hot enough for complete cremation. There were most likely a lot of remains and not dust to dispose of.
Finally I don’t think he will plead guilty. He has nothing but time on his hands for the rest of his life so he will play it for all it is worth.

Have you seen PF's dog videos? I think there's a round trough shown in every one.

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I do not think it has been talked about but are there any thoughts on what the warrants that had no returns pertain to? My first thought was they were maybe for searches of various landfills where they found nothing, or businesses for video? But then I thought maybe they are search warrants where they are still awaiting results like phone records, email records, etc.?

Any thoughts?

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Judge says he’s willing to release the search warrants with returns, noting they’re public records. He says the majority of them are Facebook, Google and Verizon records, dating back to Dec. 19. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Judge also points out that these warrants came out in the Feb. 19 preliminary hearing. He authorizes their release, but says it won’t happen today, citing the need for redaction (bank account numbers, social security numbers, etc) @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Clarification on the search warrants. The search warrants with returns refer to police filing paperwork after the search. Essentially, they explain what they searched & what they found. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

 

[Snowsnake]

T

I don't know how this bit of data fits into that scenario. LE found bits of black plastic and evidence of accelerant at the site where KK told them the burn took place.

That sounds like the tank 'leaked' at some point?

eta: I decided to google 100-gallon stock tanks to see what's out there. I don't know how to post a picture and it was news to me, but Rubbermaid makes black plastic stock tanks.

Rubbermaid Structural Foam Stock Tanks, 100 gal. Capacity at Tractor Supply Co.

Here is a 100-gallon galvanized stock tank that is oval: 2'x4'x2'.

CountyLine Oval Galvanized Stock Tank, 2 ft. W x 4 ft. L x 2 ft. H, 100 gal. Capacity , WT224 at Tractor Supply Co.

The only stock tank that makes sense is the round galvanized. Three foot round holds 101 gallons of water and the four foot round holds 180 gallons of water. The oval tanks are only two feet wide which could present a immediate containment problem. I don’t think PF thought the whole burn process all the way through. The tank may have been disposed off at a place in Colorado Springs called American Recyle. It would have been crushed up ASAP.
As a side note outside cremation is allowed in Colorado usually by permit from the Coroner. It seems to be more common in the Crestone area.

 

[Hatfield]

I continue to hope they will find that "blob" of black plastic at the landfill. Surely, if they find what's left of the black tote the question of whether or not they burned the body will be laid to rest. Kelsey's bones will be embedded in it.

With respect to the metal trough used, if it was disposed of at the transfer station it would have gone into the metal bin for recycling and not to the landfill, right? At least that is how we do it where I live.

Totally agree about the landfill search will hopefully resolve any questions about what they burned if LE can just find the plastic melted blob of the tote. There should be enough evidence left in and around the melted plastic to prove whether she was part of it or not.

Not sure about deposit of metal container if he dumped that at landfill or not, but it sounds right if he took that to landfill then it likely got separated for recycle of metal since it would have been large enough to salvage for recycle.

 

[Snowsnake]

Have you seen PF's dog videos? I think there's a round trough shown in every one.

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Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Judge says he’s willing to release the search warrants with returns, noting they’re public records. He says the majority of them are Facebook, Google and Verizon records, dating back to Dec. 19. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Judge also points out that these warrants came out in the Feb. 19 preliminary hearing. He authorizes their release, but says it won’t happen today, citing the need for redaction (bank account numbers, social security numbers, etc) @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Clarification on the search warrants. The search warrants with returns refer to police filing paperwork after the search. Essentially, they explain what they searched & what they found. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

The tank in the video appears to me to be a 5 foot round. You can also hear a women’s voice in the back ground calling to Penny.

 

[susiQ]

Totally agree about the landfill search will hopefully resolve any questions about what they burned if LE can just find the plastic melted blob of the tote. There should be enough evidence left in and around the melted plastic to prove whether she was part of it or not.

Not sure about deposit of metal container if he dumped that at landfill or not, but it sounds right if he took that to landfill then it likely got separated for recycle of metal since it would have been large enough to salvage for recycle.

Where I live, we take all our trash to the transfer station and before going in are required to state what we're dumping and then we are directed to the appropriate area or bin #. The metal never goes to the landfill. Once the bin is full it's taken to the recycling company where it is sorted. @Snowsnake mentioned American Recyclers in Colorado Springs as a possibility. I'm guessing PF got rid of it during the 10 days he was NOT a suspect.

 

[enelram]

The tank in the video appears to me to be a 5 foot round. You can also hear a women’s voice in the back ground calling to Penny.

Hatfield!! See the tanks in Pommy's video above. Both tanks
have what looks like 'shot' holes in the sides of tanks.
Maybe they were used for burning before this.
Check at .47 and 2.10 and 3.09 on the video.
that's why there's no water in the tanks.

 

[Kapua]

Where I live, we take all our trash to the transfer station and before going in are required to state what we're dumping and then we are directed to the appropriate area or bin #. The metal never goes to the landfill. Once the bin is full it's taken to the recycling company where it is sorted. @Snowsnake mentioned American Recyclers in Colorado Springs as a possibility. I'm guessing PF got rid of it during the 10 days he was NOT a suspect.

I'm guessing that PF got rid of it at his earliest opportunity, because he had no idea that he was going to have a full 10 days before LE started poking around and asking questions, despite his and KKL's pathetic attempts at subterfuge.

 

[yawningreyhound]

Yes, I find that odd too. Extremely odd. It makes me think of the mop and bleach. Found at the ranch with blood. No conclusions yet. Almost like anything loaned by a Frazee must be returned? I know it may sound ludicrous but I have known the type that would have a fit if you did not return a paper clip. One thought anyhow.

Otherwise, what would be the reason? Was it maybe a tire iron or a cattle prod he wanted back?

Very strange like everything else in this case...

Further, how do we know SF found the rod, as stated in the hearing, outside the fence at the Frazee ranch?

 

[susiQ]

Further, how do we know SF found the rod, as stated in the hearing, outside the fence at the Frazee ranch?

My guess is that Ma F found it and questioned PF about it and PF called KK to tell her that Ma F found it and it became part of KK's interview when she decided to start telling the truth, or at least some of the truth. I somehow doubt we'll ever know the ENTIRE truth.

 

[susiQ]

I'm guessing that PF got rid of it at his earliest opportunity, because he had no idea that he was going to have a full 10 days before LE started poking around and asking questions, despite his and KKL's pathetic attempts at subterfuge.

And considering that KK didn't start cooperating until her Dec. 20th interview when she revealed all this info, it's possible the metal bin at the transfer station had already been taken to the recyclers. Really though, the most important piece that needs to be recovered now is the melted tote. This will surely seal the case if it contains KB's remains. I still think they have a strong case but it only takes one not so intuitive juror to spoil it.
ed:gr