CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #48 *ARREST*

[Mom24]

They are searching the landfill because they need evidence IMO.

RSBM
They are searching the landfill because they know she's there. The fact is, landfill searches are incredibly difficult and extremely expensive. They won't search a landfill based on a hunch, or even on one person's word.

 

[ilovechili]

Oh, yes, definitely agree, the defense will get to use their peremptory challenges, too...they'll be able to get rid of potential jurors they see as likely to convict, but they won't be able to stop the prosecution from weeding out the wackadoodle conspiracy theorist, "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts" types.

I strongly disagree that the DA is going to want a lot of emotionally-based decision makers on that jury. The facts of this case are really damning against PF. He is going to want jurors that will stay focused on each and every one of those damning pieces of evidence that squarely and solely identify PF as KB's murderer.

JMO.

We actually do not disagree, I do not think.

The prosecution will likely lay out a very methodical somewhat or mostly corroborated case and not get into the weeds. Then, however, will come the defense with each and every witness who will. And then the defense will call their own.

I am trying really hard to look at this from a distance and where are the facts damning with PF? I mean there are plenty, do not get me wrong, as far as hearsay, KK, his being seen on video and I think the most damning from what we know so far is his alleged texting from KB's phone to his and back and forth and his lies. That is big, no doubt.

I agree, I just worry that this is not a slam dunk and as many say, it only takes one juror. There is no body, there is no murder weapon, etc. There is another person with as much or more motive.

I want the same thing, a conviction. But then OJ went free and so did Casey Anthony. This case got off to a late start. The two players especially KK (interesting) destroyed evidence, phones, etc.

Again, it is not a knock at LE, it is simply a fact. I have heard jurors say they wanted to convict but based on their instructions, the law, etc., they could not do it, they knew he was guilty but from what they were told... Reasonable doubt is another. A logical moral juror will follow that....

Sorry for going on. I want a conviction. However, I do see reason to worry.

 

[Mom24]

Normally, ilc, I would agree with you.
There are 2 things we have to keep in mind at all times throughout this case.

This is PF we're talking about. He's incredibly, mind-blowingly stupid.
This is KK we're talking about. Turns out, she's also incredibly, mind-blowingly stupid.

Normal rules of logic and reasonable behavior do not apply to this crime.
PF and KK haven proven that neither of them have any executive functioning skills whatsoever.

This is the most poorly planned and executed crime I've ever heard of or read about.
PF is dumber than a box of rocks. His side piece is no better.

JMO.

The phone thing was especially stupid. Texting himself and calling between KB's phone and his own while in the same spot was incredibly stupid. He didn't know they would check phone records or be able to triangulate the area the calls were made. He also had no idea that phone would ping as long as it was on.
I don't think KK left blood evidence on purpose. I think KK is like PF, she's lazy and not real bright and didn't realize she had left a splotch on the toilet.

 

[GordianKnot]

Exactly. I’m trying to think of a viable defense, but it certainly ain’t gonna be easy.

They can’t really shift the timeline, because PF said the last time he saw her was when he and KB exchanged the baby.

So him having her phone right beside his, simply does not work.

We’re not talking mere hours here, but more than two days.

Thank God he was forced to think, because when he does, he makes huge mistakes.

The kind of mistakes that send people to prison for life.

BBM:

I couldn't agree more.

PF has completely hamstrung his defense team.

How do you mount a viable defense in the face of so much damning evidence left like neon flashing bread crumbs by your own client, which leads everyone in a straight line right up to his doorstep????

I mean, the only defense you could possibly try is the ole' "Nobody could be so stupid as to ...." argument, except it won't work in this case.

Because this is PF we're talking about here.

 

[MassGuy]

The phone thing was especially stupid. Texting himself and calling between KB's phone and his own while in the same spot was incredibly stupid. He didn't know they would check phone records or be able to triangulate the area the calls were made. He also had no idea that phone would ping as long as it was on.
I don't think KK left blood evidence on purpose. I think KK is like PF, she's lazy and not real bright and didn't realize she had left a splotch on the toilet.

Exactly. On top of that, he has her phone with him, for two days after he claims to have last seen her.

There is NO innocent explanation for that.

And I also agree, she didn’t intentionally leave anything.

 

[MyBelle]

RSBM
They are searching the landfill because they know she's there. The fact is, landfill searches are incredibly difficult and extremely expensive. They won't search a landfill based on a hunch, or even on one person's word.

I think LE is searching the landfill based only on KK's "word." Landfills have kept meticulous records for years. If KB is there, they will find her. If not, KK lied.

JMO

 

[ilovechili]

They don't need to prove the bat was there.
They just need to prove KB was murdered, and that PF is the one who murdered her.
Her blood is all over that townhome.
It was a violent death.
PF told KK to get over there as she "had a mess to clean up."
His mess. His bloody mess.

I don't think jurors are going to get too hung up on whether it was a Louisville slugger or some other blunt instrument that did the damage.

The prosecution doesn't need to produce the murder weapon.

They have a mountain of circumstantial evidence courtesy of PF's utter PFery.
And KK's big mouth testimony, which the evidence will corroborate.
It won't just be her word...it will be her word as backed up by the circumstantial evidence.

JMO.

Okay. I truly hope you are right. I have seen some cases lately that do not go that way at all. Solid proof but a procedural error or technicality.

 

[GordianKnot]

We actually do not disagree, I do not think.

The prosecution will likely lay out a very methodical somewhat or mostly corroborated case and not get into the weeds. Then, however, will come the defense with each and every witness who will. And then the defense will call their own.

I am trying really hard to look at this from a distance and where are the facts damning with PF? I mean there are plenty, do not get me wrong, as far as hearsay, KK, his being seen on video and I think the most damning from what we know so far is his alleged texting from KB's phone to his and back and forth and his lies. That is big, no doubt.

I agree, I just worry that this is not a slam dunk and as many say, it only takes one juror. There is no body, there is no murder weapon, etc. There is another person with as much or more motive.

I want the same thing, a conviction. But then OJ went free and so did Casey Anthony. This case got off to a late start. The two players especially KK (interesting) destroyed evidence, phones, etc.

Again, it is not a knock at LE, it is simply a fact. I have heard jurors say they wanted to convict but based on their instructions, the law, etc., they could not do it, they knew he was guilty but from what they were told... Reasonable doubt is another. A logical moral juror will follow that....

Sorry for going on. I want a conviction. However, I do see reason to worry.

I completely agree with you that the jury selection is going to be really critical to securing a conviction in this case.

The facts and the weight of the evidence are going to be there for 12 reasonable people to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that PF is guilty of KB's murder.

It is going to be up to the DA to make sure that jury is comprised of 12 reasonable people.

He's going to be up to that task.

I'm not worried.

PF, on the other hand, should be crapping his pants right now.
And probably is, without Ma F. there at the jail to help him change his pull-ups.

JMO.

 

[ilovechili]

I think LE is searching the landfill based only on KK's "word." Landfills have kept meticulous records for years. If KB is there, they will find her. If not, KK lied.

JMO

KK would never lie. She had a deal and she is a very rational human being . She only lost it when driving miles in fear to get closer to who she was afraid of to kill for him. Tongue in cheek lol.

 

[MassGuy]

I think LE is searching the landfill based only on KK's "word." Landfills have kept meticulous records for years. If KB is there, they will find her. If not, KK lied.

JMO

KK said that she didn’t know. Just that he mentioned a landfill, and a river.

If she’s not there, that doesn’t prove that she lied.

And if they don’t find her, that doesn’t mean she isn’t there.

Just look at the Michael Blagg case. They found his wife’s body, but not his child’s.

 

[MyBelle]

We actually do not disagree, I do not think.

The prosecution will likely lay out a very methodical somewhat or mostly corroborated case and not get into the weeds. Then, however, will come the defense with each and every witness who will. And then the defense will call their own.

I am trying really hard to look at this from a distance and where are the facts damning with PF? I mean there are plenty, do not get me wrong, as far as hearsay, KK, his being seen on video and I think the most damning from what we know so far is his alleged texting from KB's phone to his and back and forth and his lies. That is big, no doubt.

I agree, I just worry that this is not a slam dunk and as many say, it only takes one juror. There is no body, there is no murder weapon, etc. There is another person with as much or more motive.

I want the same thing, a conviction. But then OJ went free and so did Casey Anthony. This case got off to a late start. The two players especially KK (interesting) destroyed evidence, phones, etc.

Again, it is not a knock at LE, it is simply a fact. I have heard jurors say they wanted to convict but based on their instructions, the law, etc., they could not do it, they knew he was guilty but from what they were told... Reasonable doubt is another. A logical moral juror will follow that....

Sorry for going on. I want a conviction. However, I do see reason to worry.

Well said. It absolutely isn't a slam dunk and that's a problem because I think PF is guilty.

JMO

 

[Mom24]

So, I agree with you that once they know her actions relative to the prior solicitations, the cleanup, etc., the jury is going to actively dislike KK, which is to say, they're going to hate her guts. She will not be viewed as a sympathetic witness in any respect.

Having said that, being an unsympathetic witness does not mean she will not be a credible witness in the jurors' eyes.

I do not think the Prosecution will hold her hand and treat her like a victim.
I think the DA will force KK to detail in cold, meticulous, precise fashion exactly what she said and did, and exactly what PF said and did, as relates to KB's murder.

There will be no hankies being proffered. KK will have to wipe her nose on her sleeve if she manages to muster up any crocodile tears.

The DA isn't interested in drumming up sympathy for KK.
He wants justice for KB.
Period.

I think the DA will be every bit as hard on KK on the witness stand as the defense will be on her.
KK's sweetie beauty of a deal is contingent upon her giving a truthful account of both hers and PF actions.
She knows that her deal is contingent on her getting on that stand and telling the truth.

Dan May is going to make sure that the jury sees what a horrible human being KK is, because that is part of showing the jury how awful the entire plot against KB was, and how truly helpless she was in the face of so much evil surrounding her.

After forcing KK to provide a full recitation of her despicable actions, the DA will then go on to show how, reprehensible a character as KK is, she pales in comparison to the evil machinations of PF. It is PF who planned, solicited, and viciously executed KB's murder.
After which, he desecrated her remains and tossed her in a landfill.

PF is toast. The jury is going to serve him up extra crispy.

JMO.

Add to that, I hope they call CC to the stand as well. Have him continue to tell the stories PF told him- they had broken up in January, they had split custody 50/50, KB was an alcoholic who abandoned her baby and had disappeared before "for a time". Let the jury hear how PF had attempted to lay the groundwork for months with his community so they'd be his defense. CC said in the dateline interview that PF had told him KB had lost her job due to her drinking. Huge lie that is easily disputed.

 

[ilovechili]

I completely agree with you that the jury selection is going to be really critical to securing a conviction in this case.

The facts and the weight of the evidence are going to be there for 12 reasonable people to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that PF is guilty of KB's murder.

It is going to be up to the DA to make sure that jury is comprised of 12 reasonable people.

He's going to be up to that task.

I'm not worried.

PF, on the other hand, should be crapping his pants right now.
And probably is, without Ma F. there at the jail to help him change his pull-ups.

JMO.

Love the pull-up remark! Chuckle.

But again, it is not up to the DA to comprise the jury. The defense has just as many chances/options. Unless Colorado only allows one side to do that. I seriously doubt it as there seem to be more rights these days for the accused than the victims...

ETA: The prosecution need 12 to agree. The defense needs one to disagree right? While it is not an acquittal, it results it having to be retried...

 

[MyBelle]

KK would never lie. She had a deal and she is a very rational human being . She only lost it when driving miles in fear to get closer to who she was afraid of to kill for him. Tongue in cheek lol.

Indeed, lol. KK had a greater motive than PF.

JMO

 

[Mom24]

I absolutely think the proof is there. After seeing some of those search warrants, I am more convinced than ever.

This case is solid.

I ain’t worried. And I’m usually worried.

The only thing I'm worried about is whether they'll be able to yank the deal on KK. I really hope she somehow steps in it so they can pull the deal and charge her with more. I have a strong suspicion she did more than she claims and I'm hoping PF talks.

 

[ilovechili]

Add to that, I hope they call CC to the stand as well. Have him continue to tell the stories PF told him- they had broken up in January, they had split custody 50/50, KB was an alcoholic who abandoned her baby and had disappeared before "for a time". Let the jury hear how PF had attempted to lay the groundwork for months with his community so they'd be his defense. CC said in the dateline interview that PF had told him KB had lost her job due to her drinking. Huge lie that is easily disputed.

I wonder if it would be allowed. Hearsay generally is not but there are exceptions. Hearsay is allowed on Dateline though...

 

[GordianKnot]

Love the pull-up remark! Chuckle.

But again, it is not up to the DA to comprise the jury. The defense has just as many chances/options. Unless Colorado only allows one side to do that. I seriously doubt it as there seem to be more rights these days for the accused than the victims...

No, you're absolutely correct, in CO, both the DA and the defense team get the same number of peremptory challenges. In non-capital cases, that number is 5. In capital cases, the # is 10.

Which is yet another reason for the DA to go for the death penalty in this case.
He'll get plenty of chances to strike people who strike him as a few fries short of a Happy Meal from the jury without cause.

 

[MassGuy]

The only thing I'm worried about is whether they'll be able to yank the deal on KK. I really hope she somehow steps in it so they can pull the deal and charge her with more. I have a strong suspicion she did more than she claims and I'm hoping PF talks.

I’m confident that deal isn’t going anywhere.

She’s going to get off light.

Unfortunately, PF won’t talk. He can’t point the finger at her, and not point it directly at himself.

I hope that really gets under his skin.

 

[ilovechili]

Indeed, lol. KK had a greater motive than PF.

JMO

Just for the record, he is guilty as well imo, I do not think KK framed him or they both were not part and parcel. Yet to a jury, her motive is easily discernible and she drove long distances to carry that motive out... With PF for all intents and purposes they were getting along, he and KB, bringing meds, offering sweet potato casserole, etc. KK though, while claiming to be afraid of him while calling him the love of her life/first love drove to take out her competition and nearer to the man she was afraid of... What a bunch of psychos.

 

[Mom24]

I wonder if it would be allowed. Hearsay generally is not but there are exceptions. Hearsay is allowed on Dateline though...

It's not hearsay. PF told these things to CC, it goes to why PF would say such things about his fiance. It goes to distancing behavior, making excuses for plausible for his lack of concern after KB goes missing.