CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #49 *ARREST*

[AgeofAquaruis]

If if makes you feel any better, I think you are.

I definitely understand that it's really hard to shake off feelings of doubt when you're experiencing them.

Feelings aren't facts.

I tell myself this all the time, especially when I think my feelings might be clouding my vision and/or leading me to jump to conclusions.

The DA Dan May has made the determination that he needed KK's testimony in order to cement a conviction against PF. The DA's priority is making sure that PF goes away forever.
He's a violent, evil, dangerous monster.

If the DA didn't need KK, he wouldn't have made such a sweetie beauty of a deal with her. To do so would be totally illogical.

The DA has vetted her story.
I have no doubt she has directly led them to additional evidence in the case, which has doubtless been invaluable.

KK's testimony is absolutely critical to securing a conviction in this case.
Her testimony will be supported by the overwhelming mountain of circumstantial evidence that the DA will bring forward to corroborate KK's account of events, and PF's guilt.

It is KK alone who can and will testify to PF's calling her to tell her she needed to get her keister to CO because she "had a mess to clean up."

It is KK alone who can and will testify to the scene she walked into at KB's townhome when she went to clean up PF's bloody mess.

It is KK alone who can and will testify to the bonfire at the Frazee ranch and the burning of the black tote which is purported to have contained KB's body.

It is KK alone who can and will testify to the multiple solicitations that PF made of her, and the specific plans he asked her to execute, e.g. poison Starbucks, baseball bat attack, etc.

The proverbial fat lady's gonna' be singing like a canary on the stand.

And after she's warbled her last note, it's all over for PF.

Gavel. Drop.

JMO.

She also has to cooperate with all court proceedings. Mays was very clear about the possibility of more arrests. Plural. He put great emphasis on that statement. She also has to tell truth.
I have a strong feeling PF isn't the only one who will be facing charges.
Any other characters who did dirty deeds for him are on notice. They must be messing their britches.
MOO

 

[ilovechili]

It seems, poor KB had to endure torture all the way from 2016 until her sad terrible end. One could cry.

For sure. And when I think of how probably she was trying and how she was surrounded by what appear to be diabolical people and had a child involved, I think she had never run into such a strange bunch in her life and never could have understood them but tried--like most of us never could nor still can understand some of these characters... jmo.

 

[MassGuy]

She also has to cooperate with all court proceedings. Mays was very clear about the possibility of more arrests. Plural. He put great emphasis on that statement. She also has to tell truth.
I have a strong feeling PF isn't the only one who will be facing charges.
Any other characters who did dirty deeds for him are on notice. They must be messing their britches.
MOO

I think his friend is in the most jeopardy, with his mom coming in a distant second.

The longer this goes without further arrests though, the less likely I think additional charges are.

 

[acutename]

This^ is a very good post. I checked the temps in the area 11/22-24 and while it was cool enough at night, the day temps were pretty warm. This point about the smell after 2 days of a body stored in a plastic tote in a barn is one of the reasons I don't believe KK's story about burning the body at the F ranchette. To get there, they would have to drive the smelly, decomposing body at least through the town of Florissant, on a Saturday afternoon/evening! The other route has them also passing through CC and Divide. Small places yes, but there are cars, cops, stop lights - too risky with that smell.

any back roads he could take?

could also drive some manure around... farmers do that.

 

[acutename]

A few random thoughts ... Even if PF thought he knew what he was doing when killing KB (eg thought it wouldn’t be overly messy/bloody), there would be no way to completely ensure that. I would think he had to have been a mess and cleaned himself up during those two hours inside KB’s condo. Well enough that he could then show up for thanksgiving dinner at his families and not have missed spatter on himself somewhere.

I’m also wondering ... perhaps he did have an issue the night before thanksgiving with his cattle or his stomach. But do you guys suspect this ‘till 4am’ thing could have been him thinking about killing KB that night before thanksgiving instead, or at least trying to wear KB down and make her tired? But then he decided to wait until thanksgiving?

I would not assume that he is rational... maybe a bit manic (if I can use that term as a lay person)... keyed up. Not feeling well, but not tired. I am surprised he spent as much time as he did with KB. Maybe he was full of big ideas, directing her here and there - check cattle, get meds, do this, do that. (speculating)

 

[k-mac]

any back roads he could take?

could also drive some manure around... farmers do that.

these both would have been a great idea.
farmers know farmers and farms all over. he would have known every back road for 50 mile radious imo especially being a farrier.
and access to rotting manure easy peasy.

 

[Ccging]

He is the type who would plant the teeth on her thinking it would point the finger her way. Or someone else even if it did not work to do it to her. Let's face it, he lied to LE but video showed he lied. He was pretty full of it and things were not well thought out at all by PF. He tried to get her to do the murders. He had her take the gun and phone. I can see it and his not well thought out thoughts--whether it would have worked or not is another thing. I can see him thinking exactly that. And he clearly never thought he would be looked at for some very full of it reason...

And like you say that is if they are her teeth.

Maybe they would have taken teeth with a search warrant regardless, but I do find it interesting that they did so after hearing KK's story which included teeth...

We shall see I guess.

What I found interesting is that per the search warrant 4 teeth were in an envelope together, 1 tooth was separate. Could mean nothing, but....

IF these are KB’s it actually makes some sense, the 4 PF took are together, the one he made KK collect is separate as it was brought to him by her later. Maybe he demanded proof she retrieved it??

Again, pure speculation, but kind of interesting if you piece it together that way.

I’m questioning if PF’s plan was initially to dispose of KB differently (according to KK he wanted her to take the body). She declined. I’m now under the impression burning KB was a back up plan he/or they came up with.

 

[GordianKnot]

in theory, KK does not know what he was wearing during the murder because she was 2 states and 2 days away. of course he might have said something or left soiled clothing at the condo. would be surprised if he took extra clothing- just seems like an easy thing to forget if you are going to kill some one because you would have a lot on your mind, IMO

Exactly right.

Clearly, LE had an interest in any/all gray shirts PF had in his possession for some reason.
If they have PF on camera or video in a gray shirt on the 22nd, that would account for their getting a warrant for his gray shirts.

As part of the terms of her sweetie beauty of a deal with the DA, KK would definitely have been required to give them a detailed description of what PF was wearing every time she saw him once she rolled into CO on her expired bags, I mean, tags. It's possible that she described PF as wearing a gray shirt during the clean up at the townhome and/or the transportation of KB's body, and/or the disposal of KB's remains pre-and-post fire.

It's also possible his Ma dresses him a gray shirt every day, to keep it simple for him.

JMO.

 

[acutename]

Something that I noticed was that Kelsey's Toyota car was registered to both Patrick and Kelsey. The truck she drove was registered to Cheryl. The Corolla was a 2006 model. This was not an expensive vehicle. Why was Patrick shown as a part owner? He also owned her phone service. Now let's say that Patrick was helping to finance this car, that does not mean that he had to be shown as the owner. It really seems to me that Patrick tried to legally entwine himself in everything that Kelsey had and they were not even married. Of course his family denies that they were ever engaged. This also attests to the fact that their relationship was at least originally geared toward marriage. It definitely was not as casual as some made it to seem. What is really troubling is how he tried to own everything she owned which put her in a weak position and would have made it difficult to leave him without him taking many of her possessions. It sort of makes sense why her mother had the truck and townhouse in Cheryl's name so that he couldn't control that, too. By the way, when he went to Safeway, he took Kelsey's truck...not his. The Safeway receipt was in the floorboard showing the time (a little before 2:00) and the purchase was Tums.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/002/18-107 Search Warrant.pdf

as per SF, PF was paying some of K's insurance too. Assume there was some time before or after the baby that she was not working- she also worked in a coffee shop too so she did not have the "good" Doss job right away. He may also have been (or seemed to be) initially generous and supportive.

 

[acutename]

What I found interesting is that per the search warrant 4 teeth were in an envelope together, 1 tooth was separate. Could mean nothing, but....

IF these are KB’s it actually makes some sense, the 4 PF took are together, the one he made KK collect is separate as it was brought to him by her later. Maybe he demanded proof she retrieved it??

Again, pure speculation, but kind of interesting if you piece it together that way.

I’m questioning if PF’s plan was initially to dispose of KB differently (according to KK he wanted her to take the body). She declined. I’m now under the impression burning KB was a back up plan he/or they came up with.

if these are KB's teeth, where are the other 27?

 

[MassGuy]

Exactly right.

Clearly, LE had an interest in any/all gray shirts PF had in his possession for some reason.
If they have PF on camera or video in a gray shirt on the 22nd, that would account for their getting a warrant for his gray shirts.

As part of the terms of her sweetie beauty of a deal with the DA, KK would definitely have been required to give them a detailed description of what PF was wearing every time she saw him once she rolled into CO on her expired bags, I mean, tags. It's possible that she described PF as wearing a gray shirt during the clean up at the townhome and/or the transportation of KB's body, and/or the disposal of KB's remains pre-and-post fire.

It's also possible his Ma dresses him a gray shirt every day, to keep it simple for him.

JMO.

I imagine that he showered after bludgeoning Kelsey to death.

I can just picture him standing in the bathroom, arms raised, wondering why his shirt wasn’t being lifted off by mommy.

That would explain the length of time he spent in that house.

 

[ilovechili]

any back roads he could take?

could also drive some manure around... farmers do that.

What I found interesting is that per the search warrant 4 teeth were in an envelope together, 1 tooth was separate. Could mean nothing, but....

IF these are KB’s it actually makes some sense, the 4 PF took are together, the one he made KK collect is separate as it was brought to him by her later. Maybe he demanded proof she retrieved it??

Again, pure speculation, but kind of interesting if you piece it together that way.

I’m questioning if PF’s plan was initially to dispose of KB differently (according to KK he wanted her to take the body). She declined. I’m now under the impression burning KB was a back up plan he/or they came up with.

I agree this fits. If true, however, either KK lied to LE or LE lied to us because she said she threw it away... So there is that... Not sure what to make of it.

 

[ab01]

if these are KB's teeth, where are the other 27?

With her body?

 

[ilovechili]

as per SF, PF was paying some of K's insurance too. Assume there was some time before or after the baby that she was not working- she also worked in a coffee shop too so she did not have the "good" Doss job right away. He may also have been (or seemed to be) initially generous and supportive.

Triple A I think was one. And since the car was in his name as well and I believe covers any driver well then it covers his arse... I would have to look back but I think the other was car insurance which again covers his arse (joint vehicle)...

IIRC.

 

[Ccging]

if these are KB's teeth, where are the other 27?

No idea, I can’t figure out IF they ARE why he would take only 4 or 5.....so I’m not a fan of the theory that he took them or that they will turn out to be KB’s.

If he only took 4 or 5, he could have either wanted them as some sort of sick trophy, or to plant them somewhere or with someone? Maybe.

Taking some of her teeth truly makes no sense...BUT this is PF....and clearly sense was lacking in many other things he did.

 

[acutename]

Such great points. I see paragraph one a bit different but it is really the same. To me, she had no problem moving onto the ranchette in her limited vision. She already traveled miles upon miles to Colorado time and again, we know I think of at least two Vegas area trips (just in the time frame we have info on), etc. This woman and ma may have well got along (thus far). She may well have met her when she was 19 and now again. KK was not home playing mom well but who knows, maybe she did on occasion, but I would even wonder how involved that was except when she had to. I suspect she would have told herself her children were fine with her ex/their daddy and justified that and traveled to see them every so often after moving in with PF and ma. Or thought in her limited vision her own children would come to the ranchette and ride the range with her every summer and do an occasional trip to Sonic. Don't ask me where her 13 year old fantasies come from but it is not real world. I do agree she had not thought about a five year plan that was realistic but I would bet she had one that was very unrealistic.

She seemed to have an ex that whenever she needed she could come up with a lie and go and fly as she pleased. She lives no real life except for maybe her job and even with that, she is not the type that could sit home bored. She has never been able to handle real life. Too many princess movies, then Harlequin romances (where suspected bad guy often turns out to be a good guy and horses are often involved). She had rodeo queen and then started getting a taste of what real life was.

There is some reason her ex was still with her. I know the easy answer is parenting. I wonder though if he had reason to worry and it was better for the kids if he was around as much of possible because of her flighty ways (or more).

I actually agree I just think she did have a vision in her head that was very unrealistic nor thought out past juvenile dreams but it is basically the same thing.

The second paragraph, no kidding. I would have called LE in an instant if KK refused to. The attorneys said the friend came to them pretty upset so we know she took it seriously. Her friend failed, so did the attorneys. In degrees though KK failed, she knew the PF, the where, who KB was, that there was a baby involved, etc. Maybe they did too (from KK) but we have no indication of that.

Apologize for the longwinded post and all of it is jmo and speculation.

we really know very little of the folks around KK and we cannot sleuth them. so we really do not know her situation.

 

[GordianKnot]

I imagine that he showered after bludgeoning Kelsey to death.

I can just picture him standing in the bathroom, arms raised, wondering why his shirt wasn’t being lifted off by mommy.

That would explain the length of time he spent in that house.

I think it's a virtual certainty that PF showered at KB's after the murder.
All the evidence in that bathroom points to it.

By an amazing coincidence, you and I had an almost identical vision of the bathroom scene!
Like you, I'm not even sure how he managed to get undressed without Ma F's assistance.

I'm guessing there were no buttons, snaps, laces or zippers to be managed.
Pullover tee and sweatpants, is what I'm thinking. Slip-on shoes.

It's the only way he could have managed it.

We won't even talk about what the actual bathing routine itself must have looked like sans Ma F. there to help him lather, rinse and repeat.

JMO.

 

[acutename]

During those years (college 'breakup' to 2016) both of them were in relationships at times. KK got married and presumably was in love and faithful, at least for a while, and PF had at least two relationships before KB, IIRC - the woman he cheated on while she was in hospital and the woman who was on Dateline a few days ago.

I'm curious about the 2016 to March 2018 period. KK's ex-husband says KK was seeing PF during 2016 and possibly (his word, IIRC) into 2017. KK says she and PF started hooking up again in March, 2018.

Was there a period from sometime in 2017 and March 2018 when KK and PF weren't 'seeing' each other?

I looked to see when 'rodeo season' is - I didn't get a solid answer, but generally, it seems to run from March to September. If there was a period when PF and KK weren't seeing each other, it might have coincided with the rodeo off-season. I'm wondering if she wasn't a rodeo hookup until he decided to enlist her to kill KB.

maybe she only has a certain amount of chances because it will be bad weather and she cannot reliably drive back and forth and PF cannot easily dispose of evidence. I have always been perturbed by his statements about "well, you'll have another chance on x day...."
was that based on times she was not watching her children (alternate weekends, etc.)?

 

[acutename]

Per CB it didn’t sound as if he had a lot citing that they were having financial difficulties due to the price of livestock.

there are old posts about how he qualified for a Public Defender and what he could possess...

 

[MsBetsy]

Yeah, my guess is that it came from Kelsey. It doesn’t sound to me like CB was present at the time.

If she played it down, which I think is absolutely possible, then it begs the question: how much worse was it?

Because that sounds pretty damn bad to me.

It must have been very bad. Doctors and nurses are used to people getting emotional or losing their temper in the delivery room. If they felt threatened enough to call Social Services, he must have been very intimidating. Imo