CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #49 *ARREST*

[AgeofAquaruis]

I think his friend is in the most jeopardy, with his mom coming in a distant second.

The longer this goes without further arrests though, the less likely I think additional charges are.

Not so sure. They're just getting started dotting I s and crossing t s, getting their ducks in a row. Mays has the CBI,and FBI too,and we only know a portion of what they know,and have.
The other players would be wise to just give up the ghost, they gotta weigh how much of their freedom they are they willing to sacrifice. How far down are they willing to go.

 

[MassGuy]

Not so sure. They're just getting started dotting I s and crossing t s, getting their ducks in a row. Mays has the CBI,and FBI too,and we only know a portion of what they know,and have.
The other players would be wise to just give up the ghost, they gotta weigh how much of their freedom they are they willing to sacrifice. How far down are they willing to go.

The problem is proving that these people knew what they were doing, was in furtherance of a crime.

PF ain’t going to implicate them, so it’ll be very difficult to make a case against either of them.

This guy could claim that he believed PF, and was just helping out a friend.

Mommy could just feign ignorance.

 

[acutename]

Exactly right.

Clearly, LE had an interest in any/all gray shirts PF had in his possession for some reason.
If they have PF on camera or video in a gray shirt on the 22nd, that would account for their getting a warrant for his gray shirts.

As part of the terms of her sweetie beauty of a deal with the DA, KK would definitely have been required to give them a detailed description of what PF was wearing every time she saw him once she rolled into CO on her expired bags, I mean, tags. It's possible that she described PF as wearing a gray shirt during the clean up at the townhome and/or the transportation of KB's body, and/or the disposal of KB's remains pre-and-post fire.

It's also possible his Ma dresses him a gray shirt every day, to keep it simple for him.

JMO.

maybe if we look at the stock in the WP Walmart, we will find that the gray brand x shirts (Hanes? house brand? whatever) come in 3 packs or 6 packs and one of PF's is missing.

 

[acutename]

With her body?

Effects of high temperature on different restorations in forensic ...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3009553/
by KA Patidar - ‎2010 - ‎Cited by 40 - ‎Related articles
Identification of burned bodies starts with the objects that have remained with the body. Teeth are considered to be the most indestructible components of the

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

The problem is proving that these people knew what they were doing, was in furtherance of a crime.

PF ain’t going to implicate them, so it’ll be very difficult to make a case against either of them.

This guy could claim that he believed PF, and was just helping out a friend.

Mommy could just feign ignorance.

Maybe. But The FBI isn't anything to mess with. Especially not for these Einsteins.

 

[GordianKnot]

You know, I try not to think of this too often, but for some reason, tonight I'm thinking a lot about the actual horror of the murder itself.

A baseball bat was the murder weapon.
An aluminum bat.
PF beat KB to death with an aluminum baseball bat.

He beat her so badly he knocked her teeth out.
There was blood splattered everywhere in that living room.
Floor, walls, fireplace, television...KB's blood was everywhere.
There is no way she was killed with one swing of the bat.
I wish she were, but there's no way one swing would have created that scene.
The sights, sounds and smells of that scene are beyond one's worst imaginings.

KB's last moments were terrifying, and horrific, and painful.
I can't imagine what she said as she cried out...what her last thoughts were.
KB's final thoughts were almost certainly of her baby girl, in the next room.
This was her cruel ending.

PF swung the bat.
PF swung the bat repeatedly.
Like a remorseless, wicked Babe Ruthless.

There is nothing KK did that rivals that level of violent malevolence.
There is no moral equivalency b/t what she did and what PF did to KB.

PF is evil incarnate.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

You know, I try not to think of this too often, but for some reason, tonight I'm thinking a lot about the actual horror of the murder itself.

A baseball bat was the murder weapon.
A bat.
PF beat KB to death with a baseball bat.

He beat her so badly he knocked her teeth out.
There was blood splattered everywhere in that living room.
Floor, walls, fireplace, television...KB's blood was everywhere.
There is no way she was killed with one swing of the bat.
I wish she were, but there's no way one swing would have created that scene.

KB's last moments were terrifying, and horrific, and painful.
I can't imagine what she said as she cried out...what her last thoughts were.
KB's final thoughts were almost certainly of her baby girl, in the next room.
This was her cruel ending.

PF swung the bat.
PF swung the bat repeatedly.
Like a remorseless, wicked Babe Ruthless.

There is nothing KK did that rivals that level of violent malevolence.
There is no moral equivalency b/t what she did and what PF did to KB.

PF is evil incarnate.

JMO.

Exactly. He wanted her dead, and he it in one of the most horrific ways imaginable.

KK is gross and evil, but her actions pale in comparison to the brutal violence that PF inflicted upon Kelsey’s body.

They are not equal, which is why one is a witness, and one is looking at life in prison.

 

[GordianKnot]

The problem is proving that these people knew what they were doing, was in furtherance of a crime.

PF ain’t going to implicate them, so it’ll be very difficult to make a case against either of them.

This guy could claim that he believed PF, and was just helping out a friend.

Mommy could just feign ignorance.

I agree with this. Since PF ain't talking, he won't be putting anybody else in the frame as far as aiding, abetting or otherwise being involved with the murder.

Isn't the "father figure's" place where the black tote was stored also? Or have I got that part wrong? Because if so, that's extremely problematic for him. Especially if they have evidence of human decomp there up on that hay loft or whatever thingy PF hoisted that tote up onto there.

 

[GordianKnot]

Exactly. He wanted her dead, and he it in one of the most horrific ways imaginable.

KK is gross and evil, but her actions pale in comparison to the brutal violence that PF inflicted upon Kelsey’s body.

They are not equal, which is why one is a witness, and one is looking at life in prison.

I could not agree with more with what you and I just said!

There is no moral equivalency between KK and PF's actions.

As human beings, well, they're both not human beings, by any true definition.

Having said that, what KK did is NOT "just as bad" as what PF did.

Not by a long shot!

JMO.

 

[Trocroc9]

I know some have speculated that there must have been more than 1 camera outside KB’s condo. I have to agree with that but still I found it strange the way it was presented in SW that they could not recover tape before 11/29 (which is how LE saw RS pick up package on 12/2). They then state they were able to see PF, KB and baby on 11/22 outside condo and PF return later on same day . So if they get that could they possibly have seen KK there as well but have not released that info to save as proof she was there on 11/24? Is that information that could be withheld until trial ?

 

[MemPat]

There would still be enough of a scent emitted from the plastic tote, as even with a lid they are not air tight.

That sent would stay absorbed into the hay long after the tote was removed imo

It takes very little scent for a cadaver dog to hit on. Moo

Yes, the dog might have hit on the area even if there was no "spot" if the air in the barn had been still.

maybe if we look at the stock in the WP Walmart, we will find that the gray brand x shirts (Hanes? house brand? whatever) come in 3 packs or 6 packs and one of PF's is missing.

Oh! You made me think about PF in Walmart again....

I keep wondering why a baby that old stayed asleep in the middle of the day while being moved in and out of the truck and with all the noise in Walmart (squeaky wheels, etc.).

Notice that you never see a baby...everything totally covered..

I'm thinking PF has pilfered a few things that are in the no-baby baby carrier....

Scented candles? Extra clothes to change into after the deadly game?

Pilfering Patrick!

 

[Irmese]

Maybe! I didn't even think there would be heat in a hayloft, or even a barn for that matter. Imo

No, I mean in KB's home. If he turned down the temp, it would have helped keep the blood from smelling as quickly. Also, it would have helped slow decomposition a little and cool the body quicker if the temp was turned down.

 

[Irmese]

Something that never crossed my mind until just now. So PF and KK reconnected in whatever, like 2018 or some such right and before that a bit on a fundraiser before "reconnecting". Didn't Chad say something about 2016 she was cheating with PF on him? This would be when KB first showed on the scene in Colorado wouldn't it?

From the little we know, they were both rodeo circuit which is a circuit. He was her "first love". So I am now thinking I am having a bit of trouble believing this was the first encounter on the circuit after so many years. At least in even passing or recognizing each other and probably talking (KK and PF). How often did KB attend with him in her early days in Colorado? If, as relationships typically go, you do more of that in the "dating" phase/early on, involving yourself in the other's interests... And KK never knew about her...? Or knew she was with PF?

This is what I thought as soon as I heard about PF being her "first love."

 

[ilovechili]

You know, I try not to think of this too often, but for some reason, tonight I'm thinking a lot about the actual horror of the murder itself.

A baseball bat was the murder weapon.
An aluminum bat.
PF beat KB to death with an aluminum baseball bat.

He beat her so badly he knocked her teeth out.
There was blood splattered everywhere in that living room.
Floor, walls, fireplace, television...KB's blood was everywhere.
There is no way she was killed with one swing of the bat.
I wish she were, but there's no way one swing would have created that scene.
The sights, sounds and smells of that scene are beyond one's worst imaginings.

KB's last moments were terrifying, and horrific, and painful.
I can't imagine what she said as she cried out...what her last thoughts were.
KB's final thoughts were almost certainly of her baby girl, in the next room.
This was her cruel ending.

PF swung the bat.
PF swung the bat repeatedly.
Like a remorseless, wicked Babe Ruthless.

There is nothing KK did that rivals that level of violent malevolence.
There is no moral equivalency b/t what she did and what PF did to KB.

PF is evil incarnate.

JMO.

We can all have some differing opinions but this is an excellent post and is the point that most would agree with I think.

Exceptional post.

KB died most likely having no idea if her daughter was next and at the very least having no idea what would happen to her with her mother not there and knowing she would never see her again most likely. I don't know that there is anything more evil one can do to a mother, or for that matter to a parent, male or female.

He is evil incarnate. No iota of doubt about it.

And she is no better. She cannot say she had no idea, or of the brutality possible that he may inflict because she herself had already had been told to use a bat, a pipe, etc. No one is going to convince me of her being convinced that would be easy with no blood or humane. It belies a stupidity that does not exist when one looks at her attempts at cover up. She knew what you have a mess to clean up meant.

Afraid of him? BS. There is plenty to show otherwise straight from LE facts. Deserves a break because he somehow influenced a poor in puppy love woman? BS. Plenty to show that is false as well and she is no flippin' teenager. Couldn't stop it or do anything? BS. Ditto reasons. She may not have wielded the bat but she is evil incarnate as well. In degrees since he did it and KB probably trusted him, at least to a point, he is worse. But they both are evil.

I probably have a hopeless wish but I hope someone in her circle of friends or his have some regret or realization of what happened to this beautiful young mother or can empathize. Because KK and PF sure don't and cannot. It would show a lot to the Berreth family I feel and the country that some as they learn the facts that defended either of these two are not blind to this evil.

There is no excuse. None. Bad childhood as PF played to a former gf? Hardly the only one in life and many never do that. He has no excuse, if anything he looks totally enabled, whatever his childhood. Her gullible or in puppy love? No excuse! Lying to LE both of them!

They lack souls.

Speaking for my opinion only. Your post got to me and is what it truly is about. A helpless victim, her motherless baby and her family.

Edited to clarify.

 

[Kapua]

If if makes you feel any better, I think you are.

I definitely understand that it's really hard to shake off feelings of doubt when you're experiencing them.

Feelings aren't facts.

I tell myself this all the time, especially when I think my feelings might be clouding my vision and/or leading me to jump to conclusions.

The DA Dan May has made the determination that he needed KK's testimony in order to cement a conviction against PF. The DA's priority is making sure that PF goes away forever.
He's a violent, evil, dangerous monster.

If the DA didn't need KK, he wouldn't have made such a sweetie beauty of a deal with her. To do so would be totally illogical.

The DA has vetted her story.
I have no doubt she has directly led them to additional evidence in the case, which has doubtless been invaluable.

KK's testimony is absolutely critical to securing a conviction in this case.
Her testimony will be supported by the overwhelming mountain of circumstantial evidence that the DA will bring forward to corroborate KK's account of events, and PF's guilt.

It is KK alone who can and will testify to PF's calling her to tell her she needed to get her keister to CO because she "had a mess to clean up."

It is KK alone who can and will testify to the scene she walked into at KB's townhome when she went to clean up PF's bloody mess.

It is KK alone who can and will testify to the bonfire at the Frazee ranch and the burning of the black tote which is purported to have contained KB's body.

It is KK alone who can and will testify to the multiple solicitations that PF made of her, and the specific plans he asked her to execute, e.g. poison Starbucks, baseball bat attack, etc.

The proverbial fat lady's gonna' be singing like a canary on the stand.

And after she's warbled her last note, it's all over for PF.

Gavel. Drop.

JMO.

I don't know that the DA "needed" KKL's testimony to secure a conviction. However, I do think that the prosecution's case is pretty much bulletproof with her testimony, for the reasons you cite. I can't imagine anyone wanting someone capable of such a brutal murder walking the streets as a free man ever again. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

No, I mean in KB's home. If he turned down the temp, it would have helped keep the blood from smelling as quickly. Also, it would have helped slow decomposition a little and cool the body quicker if the temp was turned down.

A guy who is willing to leave a bloody crime scene for two days, is almost certainly not the type of guy to touch the thermostat.

That’s some advanced thinking, and that ain’t PF.

Kelsey’s body probably only spend an hour or two in that house.

 

[ilovechili]

I know some have speculated that there must have been more than 1 camera outside KB’s condo. I have to agree with that but still I found it strange the way it was presented in SW that they could not recover tape before 11/29 (which is how LE saw RS pick up package on 12/2). They then state they were able to see PF, KB and baby on 11/22 outside condo and PF return later on same day . So if they get that could they possibly have seen KK there as well but have not released that info to save as proof she was there on 11/24? Is that information that could be withheld until trial ?

I understood it came out in the preliminary that there is video of her. One of the many reasons I would like to see the transcript. Some caught one thing and others caught other things. Giving up on that thought with the transcript being likely though

 

[Seattle1]

I agree with this. Since PF ain't talking, he won't be putting anybody else in the frame as far as aiding, abetting or otherwise being involved with the murder.

I do think the "father figure" does have some cause for concern as he was on video going and stealing one of KB's packages off her doorstep. I don't think that package arrived with PF's name on it at her townhouse. Isn't stealing mail a federal crime? I'm being half-facetious.

Isn't the "father figure's" place where the black tote was stored also? Or have I got that part wrong? Because if so, that's extremely problematic for him. Especially if they have evidence of human decomp there up on that hay loft or whatever thingy PF hoisted that tote up onto there.

Actually, I don't believe RS was stealing the package.

CB had made the request of PF to collect this package, and he told her he was in Westclife and would do it later.

PF was waiting inside RS vehicle when they stopped to collect the package from KB's doorstep. RS made a big deal about telling investigators he didn't want PF on the surveillance camera, and confirmed it was himself on the neighbors surveillance.

 

[GordianKnot]

Actually, I don't believe RS was stealing the package.

CB had made the request of PF to collect this package, and he told her he was in Westclife and would do it later.

PF was waiting inside RS vehicle when they stopped to collect the package from KB's doorstep. RS made a big deal about telling investigators he didn't want PF on the surveillance camera, and confirmed it was himself on the neighbors surveillance.

RATS! I thought we had him, Seattle.

Thanks for that clarification, though, I didn't know CB had asked PF to retrieve the package.

*Edited to say I edited my original post to remove that part about the package.

 

[justme11]

Actually, I don't believe RS was stealing the package.

CB had made the request of PF to collect this package, and he told her he was in Westclife and would do it later.

PF was waiting inside RS vehicle when they stopped to collect the package from KB's doorstep. RS made a big deal about telling investigators he didn't want PF on the surveillance camera, and confirmed it was himself on the neighbors surveillance.

That's how I heard it. My question is...why? Why was RS worried about PF not getting caught on camera? Because he knew something?
Things that make you go ummmm!