CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

[MCDRAW]

I've always understood that expression as meaning, "to be blunt," but maybe I was being naive. Maybe the person had been lying previously and was coming clean, or proceeding to lie yet again.

I have no idea what others mean when saying it. I only know what I mean when I say it.

 

[MassGuy]

There are cases of convicting a murderer without a body or remains from the victim.

In this case they have evidence that KB was murdered from blood spatter and teeth.

They also have evidence from KK.

They have motive means, witness testimony of the clean up. If it was not KB's body then whose blood, teeth and other evidence was found in KB's condo? That blood etc is evidence of a violent battering.

I think there will be enough evidence to convict PF even if they do not find any further remains of KB.

moo

I agree, although I strongly believe that the teeth are going to be unrelated.

They don’t need a body to prove murder.

 

[nwmouse]

I agree, although I strongly believe that the teeth are going to be unrelated.

They don’t need a body to prove murder.

Didn't KK say that she had to remove a tooth from an air-vent in KB's condo when she was ordered by PF to help with the clean up? Edited to add: I guess she didn't keep that tooth and disposed of it.

 

[MemPat]

if there is no DNA, finding black plastic blobs in the landfill will not prove murder- illegal burning of plastic, maybe but not murder

I'm just a Junior Sleuther here to learn from the wise.

 

[MassGuy]

Didn't KK say that she had to remove a tooth from an air-vent in KB's condo when she was ordered by PF to help with the clean up?

Yes, but they never recovered that tooth.

So it all depends on if the jury believes her.

I thought you were referring to the teeth that were recovered as part of the search warrant executed at the Frazee ranchette.

 

[nwmouse]

Yes, but they never recovered that tooth.

So it all depends on if the jury believes her.

I thought you were referring to the teeth that were recovered as part of the search warrant executed at the Frazee ranchette.

No, I was thinking of KK trying to get KB's tooth out an air vent after Frazee's fat fingers couldn't get into the crevice.

Its a small but significant detail she gave that rings true to me.

I always thought the teeth found at the Ranchette belonged to little PF or his siblings. The tooth fairy just forgot about them!

moo

EBM for spelling.

 

[MassGuy]

No, I was thinking of KK trying to get KB's tooth out an air vent after Frazee's fat fingers couldn't get into the crevice.

Its a small but significant detail she gave that rings true to me.

I always though the teeth found at the Ranchette belonged to little PF or his siblings. The tooth fairy just forgot about them!

moo

Yeah, it absolutely rings true to me as well.

It’s too vivid a detail just to be made up.

Especially because it makes KK look worse, as she knew exactly what she was helping with.

 

[MemPat]

No, I was thinking of KK trying to get KB's tooth out an air vent after Frazee's fat fingers couldn't get into the crevice.

Its a small but significant detail she gave that rings true to me.

I always thought the teeth found at the Ranchette belonged to little PF or his siblings. The tooth fairy just forgot about them!

moo

EBM for spelling.

These people are such dummies I expect the tooth to fall out of KK's cowboy boot as she makes her way up to testify!

 

[jewelsmac]

I believe they burned the tote with KB in it. If PF didn't trust KK, and wanted to fool her about where the body was...why pull her into the murder clean up at all?
Why make her privy to every detail...details that will come back to bite you in the ass?

If he didnt trust her I think he would have just killed KB when they were out in the middle of nowhere, tending to cattle...or on a hike ...or whatever, and then disposed of her.

I believe the whole "you have a mess to clean up" was about power and punishment for not doing what he wanted with the other attempts to kill KB.
It was a "get your ass down here and do what I say" move..and she did it.

If he really doubted her , I don't think he would have given her the phone to take with head send the texts and ultimately destroy it. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

I believe they burned the tote with KB in it. If PF didn't trust KK, and wanted to fool her about where the body was...why pull her into the murder clean up at all?
Why make her privy to every detail...details that will come back to bite you in the ass?

If he didnt trust her I think he would have just killed KB when they were out in the middle of nowhere, tending to cattle...or on a hike ...or whatever, and then disposed of her.

I believe the whole "you have a mess to clean up" was about power and punishment for not doing what he wanted with the other attempts to kill KB.
It was a "get your ass down here and do what I say" move..and she did it.

If he really doubted her , I don't think he would have given her the phone to take with head send the texts and ultimately destroy it. MOO

That’s where I’m at.

He demonstrated complete trust in her, as he put his freedom in her hands.

I think this was a pattern, one in which he did not deviate from.

Dumbass.

 

[jewelsmac]

That’s where I’m at.

He demonstrated complete trust in her, as he put his freedom in her hands.

I think this was a pattern, one in which he did not deviate from.

Dumbass.

Indeed

 

[MemPat]

Yeah. She was for all intents and purposes, his partner in this.

He trusted her enough to ask her to kill, clean the crime scene, and take Kelsey’s phone; thereby misleading the investigation.

She was so involved, that I think he trusted her completely, especially because she had a lot to lose as well.

He never imagined that she’d talk, because that would mean a lengthy prison sentence.

Or so he thought.

That’s why I don’t think he faked the burning of Kelsey’s body.

MG, your phrase, "for all intents and purposes" made me remember someone a bit less wordsmith-y than you writing "for all in tents and porpoises". Thanks for the chuckle!

 

[MemPat]

That’s where I’m at.

He demonstrated complete trust in her, as he put his freedom in her hands.

I think this was a pattern, one in which he did not deviate from.

Dumbass.

At the stroke of midnight the word that sums up PF's attempt at committing the perfect crime:
Dumbass.

 

[justpeachy22]

Like maybe another close friend of his?

Highly unlikely imo. I think he used and preyed on a particular kind of woman that he had groomed. I think by the time he was finished grooming Kk, she was an entirely different person than the young rodeo queen from youth. Jmo.

 

[Oregon]

I feel confident KK felt sure KB's body was in the tote.

She would have noticed that the tote was heavy as PF lifted it into the trough, much heavier than just towels and such. (She also knew he had to use the forklift to remove it from the hay bale.)

She described the "lump" as they watched the fire burn away the tote.

Towels, her own coverings and the purse would have burned in a very short time while the body would have taken much longer. (I think PF fed that fire all night long.)

I believe PF wouldn't have been concerned about removing the remains of the fire if KB's body had not been there.

I also have some confidence that KB's DNA has shown up in the black melted plastic.

I think the odor would have been convincing enough. There were several times in the transport of the tote and body where KK have been up close and possibly in contact with tote. It was not the type of tote that would have sealed in odors.

Saying she saw the “lump” was her way of distancing herself from the reality and making herself seem less culpable to LE.

 

[MemPat]

I think the odor would have been convincing enough. There were several times in the transport of the tote and body where KK have been up close and possibly in contact with tote. It was not the type of tote that would have sealed in odors.

Saying she saw the “lump” was her way of distancing herself from the reality and making herself seem less culpable to LE.

Oregon, I think you're exactly right!

 

[justpeachy22]

And why would ma leave particularly if she had no involvement? Who warned them? Along with her taking the 5th... Certainly food for thought... I don't believe his phone call to her had anything to do with dinner either. Finally, I have a big problem with him coming back to ma's property to burn KB, a body and evidence. She is not exactly 80 and immobile and his child was there as well. It was not like it was at midnight nor a small fire, nor a short fire per KK. And with KK with him, that was no surprise to ma? I will just say if I killed someone (and I never would) and my ma did not know and I did not want her to know, I would certainly not go get the body that was already and bring it back to burn at my own ma's house to burn... And it "ain't" like this fire was way out at the back of the 35 acres... If KK could see ma on the porch, well then...

ETA: I almost forgot a mop and bleach at ma's which may or may not have related to the clean-up...

I believe he had no problem whatsoever showing Ma F that the job was done. He knew she was home when he burned the body. I believe she very heavily influenced his opinions of kB. I’d even go so far as to say it may have been her idea.

 

[MemPat]

I believe he had no problem whatsoever showing Ma F that the job was done. He knew she was home when he burned the body. I believe she very heavily influenced his opinions of kB. I’d even go so far as to say it may have been her idea.

justpeachy, I don't think we're allowed to say that here but if we were I probably would but we're not so I won't.

 

[travelbug]

I believe he had no problem whatsoever showing Ma F that the job was done. He knew she was home when he burned the body. I believe she very heavily influenced his opinions of kB. I’d even go so far as to say it may have been her idea.

ITA, she had figured out the perfect way to get rid of KB and if anything went wrong KK would take the rap and be the one in jail. She obviously didn't recognize the actual # of functional brain cells between PF and KK.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV Vor 8 Stunden
Absolutely, but they interviewed her & deemed she wouldn’t be charged
^^
SK's answer to someone, who said, the connection with SR/phone would be still interesting.