CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

[MemPat]

Could SF possibly be a witness for the defense?

For all we know LE has texts sent to and from Mama SF's phone concerning what happened to KB.

Would you be surprised since she and KK are the calls he made right after the murder?

I can't imagine why the defense would choose to call her as a witness.

If she had nothing but words that would exonerate PF why did they have her plead the 5th at the hearing?

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

I think SF could be called as a hostile witness by the prosecution team.

DA May will probably weigh the benefits vs. the risks of having Ma F. up there on the stand lying her leathery hide off. If he calls her and she lies under oath, though, he can charge her with perjury, so there's that.

The DA may decide they have enough already to slip the knot over PF's neck in terms of securing a conviction that he doesn't even need to call SF.

JMO.

I know it’s a long ways away, but dang I hope they allow cameras in the courtroom for this trial.

 

[MassGuy]

I know it’s a long ways away, but dang I hope they allow cameras in the courtroom for this trial.

Typically, they don’t in Colorado.

I think we are all hoping that they do in this case.

If not, I hope the courtroom sketch artist is the same one who sketched Tom Brady, in that widely panned image that made him look like he was melting.

KK and PF would hate that.

 

[GordianKnot]

For all we know LE has texts sent to and from Mama SF's phone concerning what happened to KB.

Would you be surprised since she and KK are the calls he made right after the murder?

I can't imagine why the defense would choose to call her as a witness.

If she had nothing but words that would exonerate PF why did they have her plead the 5th at the hearing?

Exactly.
You don't plead the 5th to protect someone else.
You can only plead the 5th to to protect yourself.

So the overwhelming likelihood is that SF has some level of self-incriminating information, or involvement, or both, in KB's murder and/or coverup.

The difficulty lies in proving what SF knew, or did.
If the DA could prove it today, she'd be sitting alongside PF in the pokey.

JMO.

 

[nwmouse]

How on earth would SF's mother know when KK arrived? She may have been busy caring for baby K or may not have been at home. Good luck to the DA in proving she knew.

Just because KK claimed SF came on to the porch during the fire doesn't mean it is true or that SF knew what was being burned. This case isn't some kind of formula fiction where we get to decide the ending. LOL

JMO

BBM:

If Ma Frazee wasn't on the porch and never witnessed the fire, then why did she plead the 5th?

Surely it would have been easier for her to tell the truth - to say that she had not witnessed the fire and had no clue what PF was burning if that was the case?

moo.

 

[MyBelle]

I disagree that she wouldn't know if someone was in her home. A jury wouldn't buy that. I wouldn't. I'm 62, have watched all 3 of my grandkids at the same time in my home, the youngest being 2 years old. I'm even more aware of anyone being in my home with the kids around than if I'm alone.

SF didn't live alone. Her adult son also lived there and I think he came and went as he pleased knowing that his mother could and would watch his child if she was available.

JMO

 

[mtnlites]

BBM. KK wasn't SF's "guest." PF is her adult son living in a multi-generational household. I doubt SF logged in or out the adult friends her son invited over or paid much attention to them at all considering there was an infant who required care and supervision.

There likely will be a grandparent on the jury who prioritizes care of their infant grandchild over playing hostess to the adult friend. If the DA thinks badgering a grandmother is a good trial strategy, by all means, he should do it..

JMO

One doesn't have to "play hostess" to be aware of the people who are in their house or yard. Even those of us with large properties (and I don't consider the ranchette to be "large") are still aware of who is on our land and when. It is still highly possible to know that someone is on your property without shirking your child-watching responsibilities. IMO most clear-thinking jurors would understand that.

If PF's mother was honestly unaware of what was happening then why did she plead the 5th? Why not just answer honestly if she had nothing to hide? I think most jurors would question that as well.

 

[MyBelle]

One doesn't have to "play hostess" to be aware of the people who are in their house or yard. Even those of us with large properties (and I don't consider the ranchette to be "large") are still aware of who is on our land and when. It is still highly possible to know that someone is on your property without shirking your child-watching responsibilities. IMO most clear-thinking jurors would understand that.

If PF's mother was honestly unaware of what was happening then why did she plead the 5th? Why not just answer honestly if she had nothing to hide? I think most jurors would question that as well.

iirc, SF's lawyer advised the judge SF would take the 5th if she was required to testify at the prelim. The judge then ruled in her favor and excused her from the courtroom. I don't see it as a big deal.

<modsnip - personal information unrelated to the case>

JMO

 

[MemPat]

Exactly.
You don't plead the 5th to protect someone else.
You can only plead the 5th to to protect yourself.

So the overwhelming likelihood is that SF has some level of self-incriminating information, or involvement, or both, in KB's murder and/or coverup.

The difficulty lies in proving what SF knew, or did.
If the DA could prove it today, she'd be sitting alongside PF in the pokey.

JMO.

I have such a picture in my head of Double, Double Toil and Trouble from MacBeth with Mama SF out by that fire! Type-casting much?

I hope we learn more about her as the pretrial motions are filed.

Isn't that where they argue over whether evidence can be admitted?

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, this isn't Southfork Ranch and they're not the Ewings. Their land was not so vast, their house so massive, that they could get lost from each other for days. We're talking about a modest-sized house and a small farm. There's been nothing in the media to suggest that PF's mother lacked the mental cognizance to recognize when her son was home or not.

If she has no idea who came for Thanksgiving, when KK and PF were there, or if there was a fire in her backyard, then that is laughably absurd.

Actually, I hope she does say that.

 

[Hatch]

Yup. I’m not concerned about the case against PF, just as I’m not concerned about SF ever succeeding in gaining custody.

PF ain’t walking out of jail, and his momma ain’t getting that baby.

Her son likely murdered KB to gain full custody, and SF shouldn’t benefit on principal alone.

You can’t kill your way to custody.

True Words "You can't kill yourself to custody "
Perhaps that should be a standard form to sign when you obtain a marriage license , get your first OBGYN preggers check, and be in large Bold letters on the box of home pregnancy tests. You win the Internet today IMO

 

[GordianKnot]

I have such a picture in my head of Double, Double Toil and Trouble from MacBeth with Mama SF out by that fire! Type-casting much?

I hope we learn more about her as the pretrial motions are filed.

Isn't that where they argue over whether evidence can be admitted?

Just had to thank you for quoting The Bard, MP.
I love me some Wills!

MacBeth's 3 witches:
"Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and cauldron bubble."

It's apropos. Even though we only had 2 witches standing over the fiery cauldron at the ranchette.

JMO.

 

[Sweetsbeach]

Does anyone thinks KB stood in the bathroom and swung a used tampon around to get blood spatter everywhere? Not to sound crass but that's the most far-fetched idea I could think of to explain that.

The make-up of menstrual blood is different than the blood circulating throughout the body. For example, menstrual blood contains endometrial cells. So there's no way someone could forensically get away with faking a murder scene by throwing around menstrual blood.

 

[Hatch]

Respectfully, BBM - Maybe the medicine KB went to Walmart to get PF was something PF thought would work to his advantage if the receipt was found by LE or family, etc. that it would help play into his story of KB taking off on her own and make it appear as if she had the stomach issues, and not him. But then again, I'm not sure his brain could've thought that far ahead but one never knows. I think he was trying very hard to make it look as if she just up and took off and that he would never be implicated in any way regarding her disappearance. If he was only half as smart as he thought he was........

And another thing, I doubt he just started having stomach issues that night. IF he had any stomach issues, I would venture to say it had been for a longer time period than just that 1 night and so therefore, he would've had medicine on hand for it, especially with having an RN in the same household. So, I'm not buying any of his BS about his stomach issue problem(s).

I have a feeling he has had stomach issues at least 120 days. Planning a murder has got to work the nerves a tad overtime. 30 days for PF and KK to talk about it, 30 days x3 anticipating KK to get the job done.

 

[ab01]

The make-up of menstrual blood is different than the blood circulating throughout the body. For example, menstrual blood contains endometrial cells. So there's no way someone could forensically get away with faking a murder scene by throwing around menstrual blood.

And in this case, what the heck would have been the reason to plant blood of a murder victim in the victims own home? It makes absolutely zero sense and is laughable to even consider IMO

Here is a rail------------------------

and here is the plausibility of that scenario to have happened

 

[ajaylee]

Speaking of ulcers...when do folks think PF and KK last talked?

They both got new phones around the same time, but I'm guessing if they talked again between then and his arrest, they used other people's phones or FB.

I wonder if she let him know the FBI had contacted her and she had told them the original set of lies.

 

[MsBetsy]

Speaking of ulcers...when do folks think PF and KK last talked?

They both got new phones around the same time, but I'm guessing if they talked again between then and his arrest, they used other people's phones or FB.

I wonder if she let him know the FBI had contacted her and she had told them the original set of lies.

Well, KK must have known LE took PF's phone on December 4th because she got a new one on the same day. He had a new one soon after that so maybe they continued communicating until his arrest.
Maybe LE has some of the cell phone data from this period and it contains more evidence that supports KK's story. Imo

 

[LietKynes]

I have such a picture in my head of Double, Double Toil and Trouble from MacBeth with Mama SF out by that fire! Type-casting much?

I hope we learn more about her as the pretrial motions are filed.

Isn't that where they argue over whether evidence can be admitted?

Just had to thank you for quoting The Bard, MP.
I love me some Wills!

MacBeth's 3 witches:
"Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and cauldron bubble."

It's apropos. Even though we only had 2 witches standing over the fiery cauldron at the ranchette.

JMO.

^^^ Thanks for the image ... I think . *snickers*

My .02 is that she knew darn well there was a fire at her place , and what the loathsome pair were trying to desperately get rid of.

 

[jewelsmac]

For the most part, if we’re being reasonable, you know when someone’s in your home. You know when someone who lives in your home has someone over. They don’t need to sign the guestbook, but you probably know they’re there unless your home is so large that you miss them. Do you have to bring out the champagne and hors d’oeuvres? no, but you can greet that person because they are in fact a guest in your home, Which just means they don’t live there..

she would have already known KK. Right?

as for the burning, I’ve seen it remarked on here both that it would draw a lot of attention, smoke, smell etc. Also been stated that PF’s mom would’ve been too busy taking care of a baby to notice? It can’t be both, right?