CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[MassGuy]

You know, I sit here and read most nights...just being quiet, because this is a tough case for me in a lot of ways. But my primary thought has been for someone so um...special...PF surely could complicate the contents of a ping pong ball! There seems to be so much more extra work involved here than needed to be done and it just feels to me like he complicated it all more than he needed to.
I wonder if it's because we just know a smidgen of the story. Or if it's all the half truths creating the holes. Or in not knowing half of what the evidence is. Or if it's because we have huge cast of characters.
After spending time in Jackson Hole last fall, I keep wondering why he didnt just cut to the chase after killing KB and pitch her off a mountain side, with her phone, her purse, the keys and whatever else he needed to pitch. Maybe I just don't get all the daggone drama involved in this crime.
IMHO, MOO, MOO, MOO

You’re right.

He dug his own grave by making this far more complicated than he had to.

There was no need to involve KK, no need to use a baseball bat, and no need to send fake texts, and make fake phone calls.

He picked an elaborate scenario, instead of going with something far simpler (something that had a good chance of working).

Good for justice, but bad for him.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

You’re right.

He dug his own grave by making this far more complicated than he had to.

There was no need to involve KK, no need to use a baseball bat, and no need to send fake texts, and make fake phone calls.

He picked an elaborate scenario, instead of going with something far simpler (something that had a good chance of working).

Good for justice, but bad for him.

Have you ever felt like your criminal mind was better than the actual criminal's mind, MG?

 

[MassGuy]

Have you ever felt like your criminal mind was better than the actual criminal's mind, MG?

I think that anyone’s criminal mind, is better than this guy’s mind.

The bar ain’t exactly high when it comes to this genius.

 

[MassGuy]

48 Hours aired a story tonight that had some parallels to this case.

Lloyd Neurauter strangled his wife, staging the crime as a suicide.

His daughter Karrie was in on the planning, and went as far as to help lift her dead mother’s body over the railing on the landing.

She initially lied to investigators, ultimately receiving a plea deal that saw her sentenced to 1-3 years in prison for second degree manslaughter.

Prior to the plea, she was looking at 15 years in prison for second degree murder.

Her account basically forced her father’s hand, and he also plead guilty (to first degree murder).

In listening to recorded phone calls between father and daughter, Karrie came across as being every bit as cold as him.

She could have saved her mother’s life, but like KK, decided to do the bidding of the ringleader.

Ironically, they will both likely receive similar sentences.

 

[Seattle1]

Typical bully behavior.
Hit a dog, slam a fridge, yell out for no reason, throw stuff.
Intimidation, stay on your toes, be prepared at any moment. Walk on eggshells to keep it cool.
Moo

Yup -- and PF and how to spell narcissistic rage are one in the same....MOO

8 Signs of Narcissistic Rage

 

[Chocoholic]

I’ve finally caught up here! So much information. I don’t really have anything to add. Just wanted to thank all of you wonderful sleuthers for keeping me informed. Your efforts are very much appreciated!

Praying for justice for Kelsey and her family. I know having little K around helps. So sad they don’t have Kelsey. I’m sure we’re going to be waiting a long time, but I do have faith that justice will prevail here!

 

[NanZDrew]

Excellent post, nwmouse!

I believe that PF, when he first felt the fury against Kelsey, excitedly pictured himself bashing in her head.

Little voices of reason told him he would get caught so he lured KK back into his life and began the "KB abuses the baby" routine.

He kept developing the murder fantasy with her as they mooned over their "happily-ever-after".

I suspect he though KK would come and do the deed over Thanksgiving and when she didn't, he lost it and went bat-crazy, carrying out his initial plan. MOO

I agree except I don't think he didn't intended to have a "ever-after" with KK, do you? If he had, he would have put a ring on it when she was a little hottie. They were off and on. He had many opportunities. I think she was totally in lust with him, and she was just an available opportunity when he needed one. He didn't treat her well, it doesn't appear, since she seemed to be putting all the effort into the relationship. She was someone to be used as needed.

 

[Steelhead]

You know, I sit here and read most nights...just being quiet, because this is a tough case for me in a lot of ways. But my primary thought has been for someone so um...special...PF surely could complicate the contents of a ping pong ball! There seems to be so much more extra work involved here than needed to be done and it just feels to me like he complicated it all more than he needed to.
I wonder if it's because we just know a smidgen of the story. Or if it's all the half truths creating the holes. Or in not knowing half of what the evidence is. Or if it's because we have huge cast of characters.
After spending time in Jackson Hole last fall, I keep wondering why he didnt just cut to the chase after killing KB and pitch her off a mountain side, with her phone, her purse, the keys and whatever else he needed to pitch. Maybe I just don't get all the daggone drama involved in this crime.
IMHO, MOO, MOO, MOO

bbm. Maybe he just listened to way too much country music!

 

[indicolite22]

Yeah, I definitely think that KB wanting a change in regards to her living arrangements, is a possibility as to motive.

Something spurred him to decide to kill Kelsey, and whatever it was, appears to have occurred in August.

That’s as good a reason as any.

For this evil moron anyway.

What if the motive was related to KK as well? Had he planned to kill Kelsey much earlier he could not have approached KK about it because she didn't even know Kelsey and the baby existed until July. Do we know how KK learned about them? I presume she wasn't happy, especially since she and PF had a history together. Maybe the plotting of Kelsey's demise was a show of loyalty to KK? On the other hand, the fact that he wanted her to do the job was also a test of her loyalty to him. They must have both wanted the same thing.

 

[Irmese]

You know, I sit here and read most nights...just being quiet, because this is a tough case for me in a lot of ways. But my primary thought has been for someone so um...special...PF surely could complicate the contents of a ping pong ball! There seems to be so much more extra work involved here than needed to be done and it just feels to me like he complicated it all more than he needed to.
I wonder if it's because we just know a smidgen of the story. Or if it's all the half truths creating the holes. Or in not knowing half of what the evidence is. Or if it's because we have huge cast of characters.
After spending time in Jackson Hole last fall, I keep wondering why he didnt just cut to the chase after killing KB and pitch her off a mountain side, with her phone, her purse, the keys and whatever else he needed to pitch. Maybe I just don't get all the daggone drama involved in this crime.
IMHO, MOO, MOO, MOO

Or, the simplest thing of all - just end the relationship, or allow her to end it.

 

[indicolite22]

After spending time in Jackson Hole last fall, I keep wondering why he didnt just cut to the chase after killing KB and pitch her off a mountain side, with her phone, her purse, the keys and whatever else he needed to pitch. Maybe I just don't get all the daggone drama involved in this crime.
IMHO, MOO, MOO, MOO

He wanted to delay the discovery of her disappearance, explain away his lack of concern and put her last location at a faraway place. He was too concerned with drawing suspicion away from himself.

 

[PommyMommy]

What if the motive was related to KK as well? Had he planned to kill Kelsey much earlier he could not have approached KK about it because she didn't even know Kelsey and the baby existed until July. Do we know how KK learned about them? I presume she wasn't happy, especially since she and PF had a history together. Maybe the plotting of Kelsey's demise was a show of loyalty to KK? On the other hand, the fact that he wanted her to do the job was also a test of her loyalty to him. They must have both wanted the same thing.

Per KK, a former boss informed her in July that PF had a baby with another woman, however, she didn't learn KB's name until August.

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth
Lee said she didn’t learn about his family until July 2018, when she came to Colorado to visit Frazee and went to lunch with a former boss of hers. During the lunch, Lee said she was “shocked” to learn Frazee had a daughter with another woman, but she didn’t talk to him about it until a visit in August.

“Krystal said she had come out here and she had brought a T-shirt and some little toys for Kaylee,” Slater said, adding that Lee told him Frazee told her he didn’t want to talk about anything.

Lee said she didn’t hear the name Kelsey Berreth until after the August trip when she learned who was the mother of Frazee’s child.

Lee said once Frazee knew she knew about his daughter, he would talk about her -- and ask her questions about childcare since she was a registered nurse.

 

[NanZDrew]

Per KK, a former boss informed her in July that PF had a baby with another woman, however, she didn't learn KB's name until August.

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth
Lee said she didn’t learn about his family until July 2018, when she came to Colorado to visit Frazee and went to lunch with a former boss of hers. During the lunch, Lee said she was “shocked” to learn Frazee had a daughter with another woman, but she didn’t talk to him about it until a visit in August.

“Krystal said she had come out here and she had brought a T-shirt and some little toys for Kaylee,” Slater said, adding that Lee told him Frazee told her he didn’t want to talk about anything.

Lee said she didn’t hear the name Kelsey Berreth until after the August trip when she learned who was the mother of Frazee’s child.

Lee said once Frazee knew she knew about his daughter, he would talk about her -- and ask her questions about childcare since she was a registered nurse.

Oh, yes. That former boss would have been the guy that cared for the Cripple Creek donkeys.

 

[GordianKnot]

.

I agree except I don't think he didn't intended to have a "ever-after" with KK, do you? If he had, he would have put a ring on it when she was a little hottie. They were off and on. He had many opportunities. I think she was totally in lust with him, and she was just an available opportunity when he needed one. He didn't treat her well, it doesn't appear, since she seemed to be putting all the effort into the relationship. She was someone to be used as needed.

BBM:

Great post!

PF had no genuine feelings or attachment to KK whatsoever. None. Nada. Zero. Zilch. Zippo.
He just needed a side piece who could put plenty of elbow grease into her scrubbing duties.
Reminds me of that Neil Young song: "A Man Needs A Maid."

Knowing what we know about KK's character, which is to say, her total, utter lack of character, if ever a woman deserved to be so completely used and disrespected by a man, it is KK.

PF treated KK exactly the way she deserved to be treated.
That is some sort of justice.
More than she'll ever see meted out by the court.
Gotta' love the irony.

The only "ever-after" scenario PF wanted was with Ma F. at the ranch.
Instead, he's about to enjoy a real-life "happily-never-after" ending in the hoosegow.

"Way to go, Slick."
What a moron.

JMO.

 

[indicolite22]

Per KK, a former boss informed her in July that PF had a baby with another woman, however, she didn't learn KB's name until August.

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth
Lee said she didn’t learn about his family until July 2018, when she came to Colorado to visit Frazee and went to lunch with a former boss of hers. During the lunch, Lee said she was “shocked” to learn Frazee had a daughter with another woman, but she didn’t talk to him about it until a visit in August.

“Krystal said she had come out here and she had brought a T-shirt and some little toys for Kaylee,” Slater said, adding that Lee told him Frazee told her he didn’t want to talk about anything.

Lee said she didn’t hear the name Kelsey Berreth until after the August trip when she learned who was the mother of Frazee’s child.

Lee said once Frazee knew she knew about his daughter, he would talk about her -- and ask her questions about childcare since she was a registered nurse.

Thank you for the info. So despite not confronting him about it right away, KK soon got used to the idea of a baby. Question: Had Krystal not become aware of his situation during the summer, could Kelsey still be alive? Would PF have killed her anyway?

 

[GordianKnot]

Thank you for the info. So despite not confronting him about it right away, KK soon got used to the idea of a baby. Question: Had Krystal not become aware of his situation during the summer, could Kelsey still be alive? Would PF have killed her anyway?

Answer: PF absolutely would have killed KB with or without KK in the picture.

JMO.

 

[PommyMommy]

Thank you for the info. So despite not confronting him about it right away, KK soon got used to the idea of a baby. Question: Had Krystal not become aware of his situation during the summer, could Kelsey still be alive? Would PF have killed her anyway?

Well, there's no way to know really, but my first instinct is to say that PF wanted KB gone so bad that he would have killed her with or without KK being involved. However, there is also the chance that if KK was never in the picture, PF may have hooked up with someone who possessed some basic human decency and who would have alerted LE or warned KB that PF had plans to murder her.
MOO

 

[MemPat]

I agree except I don't think he didn't intended to have a "ever-after" with KK, do you? If he had, he would have put a ring on it when she was a little hottie. They were off and on. He had many opportunities. I think she was totally in lust with him, and she was just an available opportunity when he needed one. He didn't treat her well, it doesn't appear, since she seemed to be putting all the effort into the relationship. She was someone to be used as needed.

Yes, "happily-ever-after" in quotes! She was used, for sure.

 

[MassGuy]

Thank you for the info. So despite not confronting him about it right away, KK soon got used to the idea of a baby. Question: Had Krystal not become aware of his situation during the summer, could Kelsey still be alive? Would PF have killed her anyway?

I’ve said this before, but I think it’s pretty clear:

Remove KK from this, Kelsey is dead.

Remove PF from this, Kelsey is alive.

He drove this plot, he had the motive, and that’s why he swung the bat.

KK was merely a willing participant.

 

[indicolite22]

.


BBM:

Great post!

PF had no genuine feelings or attachment to KK whatsoever. None. Nada. Zero. Zilch. Zippo.
He just needed a side piece who could put plenty of elbow grease into her scrubbing duties.
Reminds me of that Neil Young song: "A Man Needs A Maid."

Knowing what we know about KK's character, which is to say, her total, utter lack of character, if ever a woman deserved to be so completely used and disrespected by a man, it is KK.

PF treated KK exactly the way she deserved to be treated.
That is some sort of justice.
More than she'll ever see meted out by the court.
Gotta' love the irony.

The only "ever-after" scenario PF wanted was with Ma F. at the ranch.
Instead, he's about to enjoy a real-life "happily-never-after" ending in the hoosegow.

"Way to go, Slick."
What a moron.

JMO.

Let's say the two got away with the murder. Would PF have the guts to dump KK afterwards? How often do partners in a serious crime separate? Wouldn't he prefer to keep her close and their secret contained?