CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[Julia966]

bbm
We don't know for sure. Imagine, PF had enough with the arrangements (plus money) for one child and had fear, KB would be pregnant perhaps once more? Possible. 3 months to be sure of pregnancy would be normal, IMO. If one can believe things, that are told about PF, his sexual activity wasn't low, own partners or other men's partners.

I should have said "as far as we know".

 

[Irmese]

What he paid may have been a result of mediation which is voluntary. But if he was paying that along with the baby's health insurance as mentioned in the search warrants, it really removes financial as a motive because he would still be paying that and much more if he had full physical custody.

JMO

I don't see where he was paying for the baby's health insurance. He was paying KB's AAA, KB's car insurance, and had KB on his cell phone plan and giving KB $700 a month for a few months after the baby was born according to SF. I would be willing to bet he had no health insurance on the baby. It would have probably been much less expensive for KB to add the baby on to her insurance.

I think a financial motive is possible. What kind of cheap skate stops paying child support when the child is a few months old? I'd be interested to know what brought about that change. Maybe this was when KB went to work at Doss, maybe the reason he stopped paying was bc the baby wouldn't be going to daycare and SF was supposed to be taking care of the baby on a daily basis to save money.

According to CB and PF, PF had financial problems and that's why the wedding was put off, and it was probably his excuse for everything he didn't want to pay for. I believe a lot of his business was paid in cash, to hide his income. Non-payment of child support is very common, especially when the parents were never married. I have no doubt PF thought it would be way cheaper to keep the baby with him and not pay child support or anything to support KB. The only way he could do that is KB would have to be dead.

MOO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

There was a reference in one of the SW or AA that mentioned PF said "KB didn't work enough hours to carry baby K on her health insurance at Doss"? Does anyone know if that is a true statement? I thought KB worked long hours, but I don't know if it's ever been stated by a reliable source what KB's work schedule actually was.

 

[Julia966]

I don't see where he was paying for the baby's health insurance. He was paying KB's AAA, KB's car insurance, and had KB on his cell phone plan and giving KB $700 a month for a few months after the baby was born according to SF. I would be willing to bet he had no health insurance on the baby. It would have probably been much less expensive for KB to add the baby on to her insurance.

I think a financial motive is possible. What kind of cheap skate stops paying child support when the child is a few months old? I'd be interested to know what brought about that change. Maybe this was when KB went to work at Doss, maybe the reason he stopped paying was bc the baby wouldn't be going to daycare and SF was supposed to be taking care of the baby on a daily basis to save money.

According to CB and PF, PF had financial problems and that's why the wedding was put off, and it was probably his excuse for everything he didn't want to pay for. I believe a lot of his business was paid in cash, to hide his income. Non-payment of child support is very common, especially when the parents were never married. I have no doubt PF thought it would be way cheaper to keep the baby with him and not pay child support or anything to support KB. The only way he could do that is KB would have to be dead.

MOO.

Exactly my thinking. Plus, voluntarily paying child support for a while when he felt like it is a lot different than a formal court-ordered arrangement, which may have been forthcoming.

 

[Mom24]

There was a reference in one of the SW or AA that mentioned PF said "KB didn't work enough hours to carry baby K on her health insurance at Doss"? Does anyone know if that is a true statement? I thought KB worked long hours, but I don't know if it's ever been stated by a reliable source what KB's work schedule actually was.

I would take anything PF said with a grain of salt. If she worked enough hours to have insurance on herself, she worked enough hours to have insurance on her child.

 

[girlhasnoname]

What he paid may have been a result of mediation which is voluntary. But if he was paying that along with the baby's health insurance as mentioned in the search warrants, it really removes financial as a motive because he would still be paying that and much more if he had full physical custody.

JMO

I don't think that definitively removes financial as a motive even if it's true. But I also don't believe that the reason PF killed KB was strictly custody related either.

I think PF is the type of person who wanted total control of KB and baby K. I believe KB excused his overbearing ways and manipulations thinking perhaps things would change when they were married.

By all reliable accounts <not the garbage PF was talking behind the scenes> she was still in a relationship with PF up until the day he killed her. I believe he was simply done with KB, didn't want the hassle of trying to co-parent with her and thought it an easier solution to his problem if she dead. He's a cold hearted killer and user of women IMO.

 

[Mom24]

I don't see where he was paying for the baby's health insurance. He was paying KB's AAA, KB's car insurance, and had KB on his cell phone plan and giving KB $700 a month for a few months after the baby was born according to SF. I would be willing to bet he had no health insurance on the baby. It would have probably been much less expensive for KB to add the baby on to her insurance.

I think a financial motive is possible. What kind of cheap skate stops paying child support when the child is a few months old? I'd be interested to know what brought about that change. Maybe this was when KB went to work at Doss, maybe the reason he stopped paying was bc the baby wouldn't be going to daycare and SF was supposed to be taking care of the baby on a daily basis to save money.

According to CB and PF, PF had financial problems and that's why the wedding was put off, and it was probably his excuse for everything he didn't want to pay for. I believe a lot of his business was paid in cash, to hide his income. Non-payment of child support is very common, especially when the parents were never married. I have no doubt PF thought it would be way cheaper to keep the baby with him and not pay child support or anything to support KB. The only way he could do that is KB would have to be dead.

MOO.

Why would he be paying child support?
Look, PF was concocting a story and part of that story was to use words like "exchange the baby" and "pay for child support" to support his tall tale that he and KB had separated. PF also told people he was given custody of his child, that he and KB were no longer together, that KB had abandoned the child in the hospital, had disappeared before only to be found weeks later at a substance abuse clinic and that she was an alcoholic. I believe they had combined their finances and that included providing for their child, car insurance and phone plans. I share those finances with my husband, some people share those finances when they are in any committed long term relationship.
I also believe they postponed the wedding due to finances. Some couples do that to accommodate family and a nice honeymoon. Weddings can be pricey when you have to pay for family from out of state to stay in hotels and be fed.
We can also be sure that the relationship between SF and KB wasn't good. So I'd be inclined to think anything SF said about KB and PF's finances and relationship would be to paint KB in a bad light or make it appear that the two were broken up.
Fact is, there was no custody agreement, so using words like "child support" doesn't make any sense unless PF and SF were trying to manipulate people's opinions by using specific language.

 

[Mom24]

I don't think that definitively removes financial as a motive even if it's true. But I also don't believe that the reason PF killed KB was strictly custody related either.

I think PF is the type of person who wanted total control of KB and baby K. I believe KB excused his overbearing ways and manipulations thinking perhaps things would change when they were married.

By all reliable accounts <not the garbage PF was talking behind the scenes> she was still in a relationship with PF up until the day he killed her. I believe he was simply done with KB, didn't want the hassle of trying to co-parent with her and thought it an easier solution to his problem if she dead. He's a cold hearted killer and user of women IMO.

I agree. This was a man who had the authorities called within minutes of his child's birth because he was so combative that staff feared for his child's and KB's safety. KB's child was removed from them and he was investigated to make sure the child was safe with him. And it was all over a simple removal of a baby to probably check her weight and put some drops in her eyes.
I don't think this was about custody, I think it was about control. No one tells the great and powerful Patrick Frazee what he can or can't do. He sleeps with who he wants, when he wants. He lives where he wants regardless of where his fiance or child live. His dogs and his women are well trained and they heel or they're killed. After all he shot a dog that didn't obey him. He even glared at MSM and gave them fair warning, all the while his fiance is missing and he wouldn't even attend a press conference even though he knew it made him look guilty. HE is large and in control, and God help anyone who gets in his way.

 

[Irmese]

Why would he be paying child support?
Look, PF was concocting a story and part of that story was to use words like "exchange the baby" and "pay for child support" to support his tall tale that he and KB had separated. PF also told people he was given custody of his child, that he and KB were no longer together, that KB had abandoned the child in the hospital, had disappeared before only to be found weeks later at a substance abuse clinic and that she was an alcoholic. I believe they had combined their finances and that included providing for their child, car insurance and phone plans. I share those finances with my husband, some people share those finances when they are in any committed long term relationship.
I also believe they postponed the wedding due to finances. Some couples do that to accommodate family and a nice honeymoon. Weddings can be pricey when you have to pay for family from out of state to stay in hotels and be fed.
We can also be sure that the relationship between SF and KB wasn't good. So I'd be inclined to think anything SF said about KB and PF's finances and relationship would be to paint KB in a bad light or make it appear that the two were broken up.
Fact is, there was no custody agreement, so using words like "child support" doesn't make any sense unless PF and SF were trying to manipulate people's opinions by using specific language.

ITA. I'm saying "child support" because that phrase was used by SF in the SW. Apparently, PF's and KB's finances were intermingled. I also think that if they split up, he might have been ordered to pay child support and he knew it. I think control of money is a big part of this murder. PF did not want KB to break up, take the baby AND get court-ordered child support because he would have lost control of all three of those things. PF was ready to be done with KB, but if they split up and she had primary custody of the baby, he could not as easily use the baby to control her. I believe the motive was custody and in relation to custody, money.

ETA: He would be paying child support because he has a child with a woman he's not married to. Even though there was no court-ordered support, he still was paying her some money, which would have been used to help pay KB's bills to support their child. He was avoiding court-ordered support IMO.

 

[Irmese]

.
DBM

 

[Noharg]

I agree. This was a man who had the authorities called within minutes of his child's birth because he was so combative that staff feared for his child's and KB's safety. KB's child was removed from them and he was investigated to make sure the child was safe with him. And it was all over a simple removal of a baby to probably check her weight and put some drops in her eyes.
I don't think this was about custody, I think it was about control. No one tells the great and powerful Patrick Frazee what he can or can't do. He sleeps with who he wants, when he wants. He lives where he wants regardless of where his fiance or child live. His dogs and his women are well trained and they heel or they're killed. After all he shot a dog that didn't obey him. He even glared at MSM and gave them fair warning, all the while his fiance is missing and he wouldn't even attend a press conference even though he knew it made him look guilty. HE is large and in control, and God help anyone who gets in his way.

I agree and have said from the very beginning this is about control. In this case the control is in the form of custody and finances. PF knew he would never be in total control of the baby or KB and that infuriated him to the point of murder. The example of his treatment of animals stood out to me from early on, and then reading how he reacted to not being in control at the hospital when the baby was born underscored my opinion.

JMO

 

[Irmese]

There was a reference in one of the SW or AA that mentioned PF said "KB didn't work enough hours to carry baby K on her health insurance at Doss"? Does anyone know if that is a true statement? I thought KB worked long hours, but I don't know if it's ever been stated by a reliable source what KB's work schedule actually was.

I remember that, too. It could have been that KB wasn't working enough hours at first or she had not worked long enough to receive benefits. Some employers don't provide insurance for three months or sometimes longer. I just don't think that was true when KB was killed, though. JMO.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I don't know if this is still the case, but at one time not long ago, the leading cause of death of pregnant women was homicide. KB wasn't pregnant (though Shannon Watts was), but pregnancy/children can bring out bad things in people. Women are quite vulnerable during pregnancy and their children's early childhood.

RESULTS: Homicides (n=110) were the leading cause of death during pregnancy and the first postpartum year. Women who were African American, younger than 25 years, and unmarried were at the highest risk for homicide. Firearms were the most common (61.8%) method of death.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIDhAE&usg=AOvVaw1QXcRz3Ce6CDwR-z3qj_uc

.. just noting this fact, not that I think that she was pregnant at all as I doubt KKL left her own used tampon. @FromGermany

 

[Irmese]

RESULTS: Homicides (n=110) were the leading cause of death during pregnancy and the first postpartum year. Women who were African American, younger than 25 years, and unmarried were at the highest risk for homicide. Firearms were the most common (61.8%) method of death.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIDhAE&usg=AOvVaw1QXcRz3Ce6CDwR-z3qj_uc

.. just noting this fact, not that I think that she was pregnant at all as I doubt KKL left her own used tampon.

But the baby wasn't a year old when her mom was killed, right? I think she fits that statistic.

 

[PrairieWind]

I had forgot about the target practice. Makes me think that Patrick suggested this and that would have shown her gun being fired and she would have had lead on her hands from firing the gun to make it look like suicide. She was supposed to have died the night before, in my opinion, but something altered the plan.

I think this is very likely as well.

 

[Uninformant]

Maybe she was killed by her own gun and PF told KK the bat story so she didn’t question getting rid of the gun for him. Maybe he believed she would take the body as well as all the other stuff. Her fingerprints and DNA would be all over the house. He’s got video proof of his whereabouts around the time of the murder. But KK refused to take the body, so he had to quickly come up with the burn solution.

 

[Love Never Fails]

It is really sad that there are actually men in this world that would rather murder the mother of their OWN CHILD rather than pay child support. I don't understand how someone could be so heartless and now the poor baby will never know her mother and the "sperm donor father" will rot in jail. Poor child.

I agree completely with your post. But I don’t believe killers like PF need a motive or reason to kill. I believe he was predestined to kill one day, whether KB was his first kill or there was another I don’t know.

What I do know is there are those of us who would never let it come into our minds to handle a problem by murder. Child support, jealousy, control, whatever you call it, is never a reason to kill. He is just a psychopath.

 

[PrairieWind]

Maybe she was killed by her own gun and PF told KK the bat story so she didn’t question getting rid of the gun for him. Maybe he believed she would take the body as well as all the other stuff. Her fingerprints and DNA would be all over the house. He’s got video proof of his whereabouts around the time of the murder. But KK refused to take the body, so he had to quickly come up with the burn solution.

I think it is possible that PF lied to KK about the bat as well. He really shot her. Smeared blood all over the apartment intentionally. She cleans it, he gives her the gun. He stages the fire so she thinks KB was burned up. Plan A is that KB is never found and no one charged, but he is preparing plan B at the same time. At or just before trial, KB's body is found, her head isn't beat in, she has a bullet hole in her head and her body isn't burned up. Suddenly KK's testimony is entirely suspect. This is why the DA really wants to find that body and is expending tremendous resources at the landfill. He wants to verify that burning story and not worry about last minute surprises.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Maybe she was killed by her own gun and PF told KK the bat story so she didn’t question getting rid of the gun for him. Maybe he believed she would take the body as well as all the other stuff. Her fingerprints and DNA would be all over the house. He’s got video proof of his whereabouts around the time of the murder. But KK refused to take the body, so he had to quickly come up with the burn solution.

But her testimony was that she wore some type of suit, hat, covers for her shoes, and gloves to clean the apartment. If that’s true, there would be no fingerprints or DNA from her in that apartment.

 

[Nudgee]

IMO

If he was paying that, it was voluntary right?- no formal legal custody or support determination?

Yes.... from what I understand!