CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[girlhasnoname]

But the baby wasn't a year old when her mom was killed, right? I think she fits that statistic.

Baby K had a 1st birthday in October IIRC so just barely over a year.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I should have said "as far as we know".

... and I had forgotten the tampon, which would object to pregnancy (if it wasn't manipulated to attest something false, why ever).

 

[Uninformant]

But her testimony was that she wore some type of suit, hat, covers for her shoes, and gloves to clean the apartment. If that’s true, there would be no fingerprints or DNA from her in that apartment.

Maybe she was able to not leave a hair or anything behind. I’m not sure he would have anticipated her methods far enough to worry about that.

 

[Irmese]

I think it is possible that PF lied to KK about the bat as well. He really shot her. Smeared blood all over the apartment intentionally. She cleans it, he gives her the gun. He stages the fire so she thinks KB was burned up. Plan A is that KB is never found and no one charged, but he is preparing plan B at the same time. At or just before trial, KB's body is found, her head isn't beat in, she has a bullet hole in her head and her body isn't burned up. Suddenly KK's testimony is entirely suspect. This is why the DA really wants to find that body and is expending tremendous resources at the landfill. He wants to verify that burning story and not worry about last minute surprises.

That would really be a twist. We will see, but I don't think he would have gone to all that trouble, to create a false trail that would only lead back to him and in the end would totally exclude KK from suspicion. MOO.

 

[Irmese]

... and I had forgotten the tampon, which would object to pregnancy (if it wasn't manipulated to attest something false, why ever).

That is a thought. I wonder if PF or KK might have faked the used tampon using KB's blood. Probably not, but they have both done some cray-cray things.

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree completely with your post. But I don’t believe killers like PF need a motive or reason to kill. I believe he was predestined to kill one day, whether KB was his first kill or there was another I don’t know.

What I do know is there are those of us who would never let it come into our minds to handle a problem by murder. Child support, jealousy, control, whatever you call it, is never a reason to kill. He is just a psychopath.

That's true, but I do think that custody of the child was what motivated him to kill her.
Kelsey's mom believes that he wanted full custody of the baby, and that Kelsey would not agree to it. She probably knew the dynamics of the relationship better than anyone, at least from her daughter's point of view.
I think PF was outraged when he realized his plan to make Kelsey look like an unfit parent would not work. We have had many accounts of his anger when his control is taken away.
I believe in his mind he wasn't going to allow her to have custody of the baby no matter what. He convinced himself that his actions were justified and in his mind the only thing left that he could do was to get rid of her.
And as a result, if justice prevails, he will never see his child again. Imo

 

[travelbug]

That is a thought. I wonder if PF or KK might have faked the used tampon using KB's blood. Probably not, but they have both done some cray-cray things.

This is just crazy speculation, but if KB was pregnant again this would be a double homicide with "special circumstances". jmvho

 

[Mimi in London]

I think it is possible that PF lied to KK about the bat as well. He really shot her. Smeared blood all over the apartment intentionally. She cleans it, he gives her the gun. He stages the fire so she thinks KB was burned up. Plan A is that KB is never found and no one charged, but he is preparing plan B at the same time. At or just before trial, KB's body is found, her head isn't beat in, she has a bullet hole in her head and her body isn't burned up. Suddenly KK's testimony is entirely suspect. This is why the DA really wants to find that body and is expending tremendous resources at the landfill. He wants to verify that burning story and not worry about last minute surprises.

Re. PF possibly smearing blood all over her house intentionally. I’m not sure whether I said it, but I’ve often thought it.

In my mind, the driver for that would be anger at KL. It takes ‘Clean THAT’ one step further, and would explain why the blood was found in so many places.

 

[MassGuy]

Re. PF possibly smearing blood all over her house intentionally. I’m not sure whether I said it, but I’ve often thought it.

In my mind, the driver for that would be anger at KL. It takes ‘Clean THAT’ one step further, and would explain why the blood was found in so many places.

I’m not sure about that.

PF’s goal was to eliminate Kelsey, and I don’t think he would have thought about spreading blood around the house.

The more blood, the more likely it is that the crime scene is discovered.

He wanted to get away with murder, and I don’t think he made things more difficult, just to spite KK.

A blunt object being used in a small space, will make a hell of a mess.

That’s what I think happened.

 

[PrairieWind]

Re. PF possibly smearing blood all over her house intentionally. I’m not sure whether I said it, but I’ve often thought it.

In my mind, the driver for that would be anger at KL. It takes ‘Clean THAT’ one step further, and would explain why the blood was found in so many places.

It wouldn't really take that much blood. I think he then removed the body quite likely in the tote but disposed of it that night or sometime on the 23rd, possibly with the help of old guy friend. Then placed the tote, with bloody clothes etc in the Nash barn. It seems KK believed it was heavy, so it could have had more in it, even the body of an animal, ie dog. It doesn't really take any more effort that what KK says happened. Except now, if she flips on him (which she did) her story wont match evidence that eventually turns up.

 

[gitana1]

I agree completely with your post. But I don’t believe killers like PF need a motive or reason to kill. I believe he was predestined to kill one day, whether KB was his first kill or there was another I don’t know.

What I do know is there are those of us who would never let it come into our minds to handle a problem by murder. Child support, jealousy, control, whatever you call it, is never a reason to kill. He is just a psychopath.

Good post.

I bet child support was low on his list of motives. He had a great chance at primary custody if she chose to move.

But my sense is it's all about possession. That kid is his. Doesn't belong to anyone else. He didn't want to share. I think he felt outraged at the thought of having to go tocourt to assert his rights.

I think this guy has been enabled and is deeply enmeshed with his mother so he views his child similarly- as a narcissistic supply tool. An extension and reflection of himself without a separate identity or rights or needs outside his own, like the need to have a relationship with both parents.

He seems spoiled and angry and wasn't about to allow the government or some stupid woman tell him when he could have his kid.

So he got rid of the problem.

I KNEW his mother would try to battle for custody. It just makes perfect sense looking at his character and family situation.

She can barely walk, has a small ranch to now manage on her own and a son fighting murder charges. But she was going to get that baby.

To me, that's what this was all about. And I haw a feeling mama Frazier could've known something about the plan before it was executed. She was the first person he called.

P.S., anyone have an update on the custody case?

 

[gitana1]

And I often wonder if, even more than PF wanted sole custody, He wanted Kelsey NOT to have it.

Yes. 100%.

 

[gitana1]

I’ll check that out, thanks!

Yeah, I think all of us are appalled that KK is going to get off so light.

What she did was as immoral as it was criminal.

She is a terrible human being, who contributed to the death of an innocent mother.

Our reaction to her and her involvement, is an emotional one.

Logically though, her contributions to this case have been vital, and will be vital going forward (via testimony).

No one is happy that she will get off far lighter than she should, but I’m convinced it’s necessary in order to nail the much bigger fish.

Far too many “no body murder cases” go unprosecuted.

The stunning speed at which PF was arrested, was as a direct result of KK.

We want both of them to pay, but I don’t think it’s wise to gamble with PF walking.

I'm with you. She disgusts me and I hope her life is ruined for what she did. I think she's immoral and conspired to murder poor Kelsey, just so she could get some man.

But I think she's an opportunist who may never have had the propensity l murder without a specific set of circumstances. But PF? He seems like the type who was destined for something psychopathic like this.

He's the bigger danger.

 

[PrairieWind]

Good post.

It hink child support was low on his list of motives. He had a great chance at primary custody if she chose to move.

But my sense is it's all about possession. That kid is his. Doesn't belong to anyone else. He didn't want to share. I think he felt outraged at the thought of having to go tocourt to assert his rights.

I think this guy has been enabled and is deeply enmeshed with his mother so he views his child similarly- as a narcissistic supply tool. An extension and reflection of himself without a separate identity or rights or needs outside his own, like the need to have a relationship with both parents.

I think he's spoiled and angry and wasn't about to allow the government or some stupid woman tell him when he could have his kid.

So he got rid of the problem.

I KNEW his mother would try too battle for custody. It just makes perfect sense looking at his character and family situation.

She can barely walk, has a small ranch to now manage on her own and a son fighting murder charges. But she was going to get that baby.

To me, that's what this was all about. And I haw a feeling mama Frazier could've known something about the plan before it was executed. She was the first person he called.

P.S., anyone have an update on the custody case?

Motive on this case has been difficult to figure for me. I think some sort of custody and/or control is possibly the most likely, but I am still thinking its not quite all. But then I remind myself to not spend too much time trying to figure out the thoughts of someone like this. KB seems to have been as lovely and giving a young woman as you could find. I"ll never be able to fully understand.

 

[gitana1]

This is just crazy speculation, but if KB was pregnant again this would be a double homicide with "special circumstances". jmvho

Not in CO. He could be charged with unlawful termination of the pregnancy though.

 

[gitana1]

Motive on this case has been difficult to figure for me. I think some sort of custody and/or control is possibly the most likely, but I am still thinking its not quite all. But then I remind myself to not spend too much time trying to figure out the thoughts of someone like this. KB seems to have been as lovely and giving a young woman as you could find. I"ll never be able to fully understand.

I hear ya'. Thank God we can't really figure it out.

 

[susiQ]

I agree. This was a man who had the authorities called within minutes of his child's birth because he was so combative that staff feared for his child's and KB's safety. KB's child was removed from them and he was investigated to make sure the child was safe with him. And it was all over a simple removal of a baby to probably check her weight and put some drops in her eyes.
I don't think this was about custody, I think it was about control. No one tells the great and powerful Patrick Frazee what he can or can't do. He sleeps with who he wants, when he wants. He lives where he wants regardless of where his fiance or child live. His dogs and his women are well trained and they heel or they're killed. After all he shot a dog that didn't obey him. He even glared at MSM and gave them fair warning, all the while his fiance is missing and he wouldn't even attend a press conference even though he knew it made him look guilty. HE is large and in control, and God help anyone who gets in his way.

WOW!! I think the prosecutor should use this in her summation

 

[susiQ]

Maybe she was killed by her own gun and PF told KK the bat story so she didn’t question getting rid of the gun for him. Maybe he believed she would take the body as well as all the other stuff. Her fingerprints and DNA would be all over the house. He’s got video proof of his whereabouts around the time of the murder. But KK refused to take the body, so he had to quickly come up with the burn solution.

But that doesn't take into account the "tooth with a root" KK had to recover from the vent.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

if KB was pregnant again this would be a double homicide with "special circumstances"

^^ This!! My own thought too! BUT why showing (with a "used" tampon), KB wasn't pregnant, if you don't expect to be arrested and charged with murder. If we would know, what PF had in his confused evil mind!

 

[steeltowngirl]

I agree completely with your post. But I don’t believe killers like PF need a motive or reason to kill. I believe he was predestined to kill one day, whether KB was his first kill or there was another I don’t know.

What I do know is there are those of us who would never let it come into our minds to handle a problem by murder. Child support, jealousy, control, whatever you call it, is never a reason to kill. He is just a psychopath.

Spot on!

I get worried when we start discussing motives. For example, let’s say the prosecution argues motive was custody. Then defense may come back and proves PF wasn’t looking for custody. Or if they said motive was money and it turns out he actually was providing support. A jury could look at it and say, well, he didn’t have that motive.. therefore he didn’t do it.

Even hatred doesn’t seem motive enough to swing a bat into the head of the mother of your child to the point her teeth are knocked out by their roots. Splatter her blood into far corners of multiple rooms. With your baby mere steps away. On Thanksgiving.

That is beyond hate. It’s disturbed and subhuman.

I agree with you, Love Never Fails.

PF is a psychopath.