CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #52 *ARREST*

[susiQ]

I agree with much but not with all which is to be expected right ? Let's start with Mensa type of jurors, that is the last thing they want imo and I will not elaborate on that nor sidetrack on it because it would be futile. I will say a juror who is a member of Mensa will be able to literally read and interpret fully the jury instructions. They would be better off with women who think PF's bangs are ugly and that KK was not treated right by him and that certainly does not take qualifying as a member of Mensa.

The other main thing I disagree with is she tied together pings, phone calls, etc. from when solicitations and planning first began. When and where did I miss that LE had this info? I am not saying come trial they may not have such things but anything I have seen is from the 21st late hours/22nd early hours on. They have pings, etc.. from back when? Seriously.

I agree with much of what you said and I hope they do have such things but I guess I am not in on the loop on that one because I have seen no such thing.

Other than these things, I pretty much agree but nothing is a slam dunk and she is a liability imo. Lord knows what she will get up to in the years until trial commences, particularly free to travel and do anything she wishes, no restrictions to speak of at all. I am sure the defense is salivating over that thought and possibility.

He is guilty, no doubt. She is as well. KB is dead because of the two of them. imvho.

I understand and respect your response and I myself think what I stated herein.

I will celebrate, however, if and when he is put away and moves from county to prison. That we agree on

Your words:

"The other main thing I disagree with is she tied together pings, phone calls, etc. from when solicitations and planning first began. When and where did I miss that LE had this info?"

My words:

"You'd have LE/DA trying to decipher the sequence of events (phone pings/texts/calls/video) covering weeks considering when the first attempts at KB's life began."

Of course, this was an assumption on my part, seeing that at that point they knew who they were dealing with, PF and KK and they HAD their phones by then and getting the data through SW's. On account of that, I believe her testimony to LE was of great benefit, IMHO to have LE know how it all went down (according to KK) which would have aided detectives in their work of breaking down all the communication info they were faced with which would have included data from before, during and after KB's murder. That's all I was trying to say. I'm not claiming to know more than anyone.

 

[MassGuy]

I have never once said he did not kill Kelsey or he is innocent but just that both are capable of it and wanted it. I have also never once said he should be free and not convicted and spend life in prison. I have said they both need to go away. There are 20 somethings for goodness sake because they were with on a robbery and their buddy killed someone (that may not have even known would happen) that have been put away for their entire life for murder even though they did not pull the trigger.

I have never once tried to say he should be free and she should be the one facing prison. I have always said they both should. I personally do not care who swung the bat, shot the gun or whatever the truth may be nor on what day (who knows with these liars?), they are both as guilty as sin.

<modsnip>

The implication was that she could have potentially been involved to that extent (murder), that was what I was responding to.

The guy who hatched the plot, the guy who drove the plot, the monster who swung the bat; he is the the most culpable one.

The justice system says so.

The hypothetical existence of evidence, is not evidence.

(Justified) hatred of someone, does not change the facts.

Also, the idea that she did not lead law enforcement to physical evidence, is patently false.

She did, and it is documented. This is not in dispute.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and not everyone agrees with one another.

Obviously, I don’t agree that she is as culpable as him.

I wish she got what she deserved, but that ain’t gonna happen.

 

[tmar]

See below, the case of Christine Mustafa.
Loads of similarities here: searching landfill, no body, toddler, evidence.
Copied from Mustafa thread:

“Two years after police searched a Buckeye landfill for the body of a Phoenix mother of two, a jury has found her boyfriend guilty of second-degree murder.

Christine Mustafa disappeared in 2017. Her body was never found. And in an unusual — but not unprecedented — move, prosecutors charged Robert Interval Jr. with killing her.”

“During the trial over the past several weeks, prosecutors have painted Interval as a jealous man who feared Mustafa was planning to leave and take their then 8-month-old daughter with her. Defense attorneys emphasized a lack of evidence that Mustafa is even dead, much less who would have killed her.

According to prosecutors, the direct evidence in the case includes mattress covers Interval purchased and text messages he sent to his sister, Gia Fitzpatrick.

The guilty verdict of Robert John Interval, in the killing of girlfriend Christine Mustafa, is second Phoenix-area murder trial that resulted in a guilty verdict without a body in the last five years.
http://ktar.com/story/2536005/boyfr...christine-mustafa-found-guilty-of-her-murder/

Jessica Suerth on Twitter

 

[MassGuy]

See below, the case of Christine Mustafa.
Loads of similarities here: searching landfill, no body, toddler, evidence.
Copied from Mustafa thread:

“Two years after police searched a Buckeye landfill for the body of a Phoenix mother of two, a jury has found her boyfriend guilty of second-degree murder.

Christine Mustafa disappeared in 2017. Her body was never found. And in an unusual — but not unprecedented — move, prosecutors charged Robert Interval Jr. with killing her.”

“During the trial over the past several weeks, prosecutors have painted Interval as a jealous man who feared Mustafa was planning to leave and take their then 8-month-old daughter with her. Defense attorneys emphasized a lack of evidence that Mustafa is even dead, much less who would have killed her.

According to prosecutors, the direct evidence in the case includes mattress covers Interval purchased and text messages he sent to his sister, Gia Fitzpatrick.

The guilty verdict of Robert John Interval, in the killing of girlfriend Christine Mustafa, is second Phoenix-area murder trial that resulted in a guilty verdict without a body in the last five years.
http://ktar.com/story/2536005/boyfr...christine-mustafa-found-guilty-of-her-murder/

Jessica Suerth on Twitter

And cases like that, emphasize the strength of the case here.

Convictions happen with much less evidence.

Those prosecutors would kill to have the type and amount of evidence here.

They got it done though.

 

[ab01]

The implication was that she could have potentially been involved to that extent (murder), that was what I was responding to.

The guy who hatched the plot, the guy who drove the plot, the monster who swung the bat; he is the the most culpable one.

The justice system says so.

The hypothetical existence of evidence, is not evidence.

(Justified) hatred of someone, does not change the facts.

Also, the idea that she did not lead law enforcement to physical evidence, is patently false.

She did, and it is documented. This is not in dispute.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and not everyone agrees with one another.

Obviously, I don’t agree that she is as culpable as him.

I wish she got what she deserved, but that ain’t gonna happen.

Yep unfortunately what some may often feel as an opinion of what KK deserves/opposed to what she is charged with, is not actually reality. To say that there is not evidence that excludes KK from killing KB, And then claiming that there is potential evidence that KK killed KB is rather illogical IMO.KK has not been charged with murder, PF has been. I guess it just depends weather one believes prosecutors and that they have the one on trial that is ultimately responsible. Or weather one clings to the belief that there is evidence out there that we haven't been privy to and or LE apparently overlooked, that somehow ties KK the the date and time KB was murdered. Prosecutors generally don't let somebody off the hook for murder and they certainly don't like to make deals with somebody who would damage their case rather than solidify it IMO. Heck maybe KK is criminal mastermind and she fooled PF, LE, FBI and prosecutors, Maybe kk is such a manipulator that she knew there was no evidence to link her to the actual murder and so she knew she could lie all she wanted and LE would never find out. Or maybe just maybe LE vetted her story and can prove that she wasn't the actual murderer, I guess time will tell. I know which I believe and which is most logical based on my knowledge about how criminal investigations work....MOEO

 

[Trocroc9]

lets not forget where LE found her.
reno or vegas or somewhere there within partying up a storm.
SMUG...….CONFIDENT.....DEFIANT....DECEITFUL

moo

Yep that’s a “get the hell out of dodge” as quick as possible.

 

[ab01]

Also there is no doubt in my mind that KK had to prove to investigators where she was at the time that KB was murdered before she was offered her sweet deal. zero zilch

 

[MassGuy]

Also there is no doubt in my mind that KK had to prove to investigators where she was at the time that KB was murdered before she was offered her sweet deal. zero zilch

Absolutely. They didn’t want to let a potential murderer off, or have any surprises at trial that could let the actual killer walk.

When she lied to the FBI, law enforcement was able to prove that she was not at PF’s for the entire time (as she claimed) on the 24th.

Her phone records put her near Kelsey’s house.

This same technology, apparently verified her whereabouts on the days preceding her arrival in Colorado.

No deal otherwise.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Initially, when I heard that the Berreths were unhappy about the light punishment for KK, I was as upset as many are.

Then I thought more about it. The DA evidently discussed this approach with the Berreths. He would not have blindsided them by having them hear about KK’s plea deal in the media.

I’m not saying he needed their approval as such, but I feel he was prudent, honest, and to the point with them. That this approach, adding KK’s evidence to the case - WAS absolutely needed to put PF away for life. Without it, still a strong case, but KK’s testimony seals the coffin. And the Berreths, despite their heartache and anger, want PF put away.

Once I considered it all in this manner, it became easier to accept (for me, all only my opinion).

 

[ab01]

And cases like that, emphasize the strength of the case here.

Convictions happen with much less evidence.

Those prosecutors would kill to have the type and amount of evidence here.

They got it done though.

Yah I'm usually more convinced in cases where the DA keeps things very close to the vest and everybody is questioning why did they do this, how could they charge them with that etc. It usually seems that the more questions that there are, that the DA already has those answers and they know what they have. No need to win the case in the media or by public opinion. They know what they have and are well aware what they can prove..... I think the facts presented at trial will be overwhelming MOO

 

[NoeticSoul]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Slightly OT Happy Easter weekend to all who celebrate!! I hope that the Berreths are enjoying their Easter with baby K!!

 

[GordianKnot]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Slightly OT Happy Easter weekend to all who celebrate!! I hope that the Berreths are enjoying their Easter with baby K!!

Happy Easter to you, NS!

 

[ilovechili]

Initially, when I heard that the Berreths were unhappy about the light punishment for KK, I was as upset as many are.

Then I thought more about it. The DA evidently discussed this approach with the Berreths. He would not have blindsided them by having them hear about KK’s plea deal in the media.

I’m not saying he needed their approval as such, but I feel he was prudent, honest, and to the point with them. That this approach, adding KK’s evidence to the case - WAS absolutely needed to put PF away for life. Without it, still a strong case, but KK’s testimony seals the coffin. And the Berreths, despite their heartache and anger, want PF put away.

Once I considered it all in this manner, it became easier to accept (for me, all only my opinion).

However, they could have negotiated for something longer than can be measured easily in months for a sentence. jmo. 18 months makes me think of how young KB's daughter is--it flies by in no time quite honestly... Why so little of a possible sentence? Why no restrictions? Why not a cannot leave the state, cannot this, cannot that. Not a single restriction and even showing up?

Of course a multitude of people are unhappy and wonder why.

ETA: And she did not even provide remains. Nor any physical evidence. People would not like that possible sentence even with having done that. imo.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I agree with much but not with all which is to be expected right ? Let's start with Mensa type of jurors, that is the last thing they want imo and I will not elaborate on that nor sidetrack on it because it would be futile. I will say a juror who is a member of Mensa will be able to literally read and interpret fully the jury instructions. They would be better off with women who think PF's bangs are ugly and that KK was not treated right by him and that certainly does not take qualifying as a member of Mensa.

The other main thing I disagree with is she tied together pings, phone calls, etc. from when solicitations and planning first began. When and where did I miss that LE had this info? I am not saying come trial they may not have such things but anything I have seen is from the 21st late hours/22nd early hours on. They have pings, etc.. from back when? Seriously.

I agree with much of what you said and I hope they do have such things but I guess I am not in on the loop on that one because I have seen no such thing.

Other than these things, I pretty much agree but nothing is a slam dunk and she is a liability imo. Lord knows what she will get up to in the years until trial commences, particularly free to travel and do anything she wishes, no restrictions to speak of at all. I am sure the defense is salivating over that thought and possibility.

He is guilty, no doubt. She is as well. KB is dead because of the two of them. imvho.

I understand and respect your response and I myself think what I stated herein.

I will celebrate, however, if and when he is put away and moves from county to prison. That we agree on

Are jurors asked if they are in Mensa? I swear this is a legit question by me. I’ve heard it mentioned a few times on the threads, and now I’m seriously wondering. Or is it a facetious reference? I promise I truly am asking as I do not know.

 

[ab01]

However, they could have negotiated for something longer than can be measured easily in months for a sentence. jmo. 18 months makes me think of how young KB's daughter is--it flies by in no time quite honestly... Why so little of a possible sentence? Why no restrictions? Why not a cannot leave the state, cannot this, cannot that. Not a single restriction and even showing up?

Of course a multitude of people are unhappy and wonder why.

ETA: And she did not even provide remains. Nor any physical evidence. People would not like that possible sentence even with having done that. imo.

BBM and quoted by me

"And she did not even provide remains. Nor any physical evidence"


I'm not sure this is accurate MOEO

 

[GordianKnot]

Are jurors asked if they are in Mensa? I swear this is a legit question by me. I’ve heard it mentioned a few times on the threads, and now I’m seriously wondering. Or is it a facetious reference? I promise I truly am asking as I do not know.

Nope, asking about MENSA membership isn't a standard question posed to a jury pool.
I don't know if there's any reason the question would be disallowed by a judge if either side wanted to ask it of potential jurors, though.

JMO.

 

[tmar]

There is a loud outcry here in Australia: petitions to change the law.
See below.

Borce Ristevski and Joseph Esmaili manslaughter sentences prompt calls for law reform
Yesterday's nine-year jail sentence imposed on Borce Ristevski, who hid his wife's body under logs and denied involvement in her death for years, immediately sparked outrage over sentencing laws in Victoria.
A day earlier, Joseph Esmaili was sentenced to 10 and a half years in jail for killing surgeon Patrick Pritzwald-Stegmann with a single punch after an argument about smoking at a hospital.
One key difference is Esmaili was the first person to be sentenced under Victoria's one-punch laws, which mandate a minimum decade-long jail term
There is no equivalent legislation for sentencing in family violence matters, but the Victorian Opposition is using the Ristevski case to push for a parliamentary review.
Domestic Violence Victoria said the Ristevski sentence exposed "the limitations of the criminal justice system in delivering just outcomes in family violence matters".

"Today we received the message that taking a woman's life is worth six years of a man's life in prison," a DV Victoria statement said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-19/borce-ristevski-joseph-esmaili-different-manslaughter-sentences/11029858.

Here, with the Kelsey Berreth case, what will be the sentencing for family violence?

 

[MassGuy]

ETA: And she did not even provide remains. Nor any physical evidence. People would not like that possible sentence even with having done that. imo.

Snipped for focus.

After speaking to investigators, law enforcement expanded their search of Kelsey’s house.

They found blood under the floorboards.

They found blood on the fireplace.

We don’t know the extent, or where else the found this blood.

That is physical evidence.

They found discolored hay in the barn where Kesley’s body was stored.

That is physical evidence.

They found melted plastic and the presence of an accelerant at the burn site that she directed them to.

That is physical evidence.

This idea that she didn’t provide them with physical evidence, is absolutely false.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Nope, asking about MENSA membership isn't a standard question posed to a jury pool.
I don't know if there's any reason the question would be disallowed by a judge if either side wanted to ask it of potential jurors, though.

JMO.

Is it a bad thing or good thing? Or depends on the type of case?
ETA it might be handy in an intellectual property case about quantum physics patent or something

 

[steeltowngirl]

deleted duplicate post by me