Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #54 *ARREST*

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  • #701
Re: the "KK's the real killer" alternate theory.
That dog won't hunt, Massy. Or bark. Or sit. Or shake. Or even lie down.
It might play dead, but that's about it.

See, there are these pesky little things called "evidence" and "facts" that PF's "Defenders" are going to have to try to work around.

You've just enumerated a number of the facts that aren't lining up with a potential
"KK's the real murderer" narrative.
  • KK's location at the time KB is last heard from, i.e., the 22nd, doesn't fit.
  • KB's and PF's phones traveling together to the Franch on the 22nd doesn't fit.
  • KB's and PF's phones traveling together for 2 days subsequent to the murder doesn't fit.
  • PF lying about having contact w/ KB after the 22nd doesn't fit.
  • PF's lying to both LE and KB's mom doesn't fit.
  • The burn at the Franch doesn't fit.
  • KK telling LE all the places they could find evidence that KB had been murdered doesn't fit.
And that's only some of the evidence.
Criminal cases aren't tried in the media.
The prosecution has not made public all of the evidence they have in this case.
The DA is not a halfwit.
Dan May was not duped into giving "the real killer" a sweetie beauty of a deal in exchange for testimony against an innocent patsy.
PF is many things, but an innocent patsy is not one of them.

In "The Defenders'" defense, they're attempting the impossible here.
Logically, there's no way to defend the indefensible.

PF has completely hamstrung the defense with his Wile E. Coyote-like maneuvers.
He didn't even need an ACME kit.
"KABOOM!"
"THUD!"
"Guilty, Your Honor."

"Th-th-th-that's all, folks!"

JMO.
Color me confused, but has anyone said that they believe "KK's the real killer or "KK's the real murderer?"

I have said numerous times PF is guilty and deserves life in prison as I do believe he killed KB, and I have also said from the beginning that I hope KK does not just get a slap on the hand as she has played several roles throughout this, however, I do not feel she is the 'killer or murderer." I, for one, hope this clarifies my point of view and if not, well, it can't get much clearer, LOL, so carry on and have a good day! :)
 
  • #702
Color me confused, but has anyone said that they believe "KK's the real killer or "KK's the real murderer?"

I have said numerous times PF is guilty and deserves life in prison as I do believe he killed KB, and I have also said from the beginning that I hope KK does not just get a slap on the hand as she has played several roles throughout this, however, I do not feel she is the 'killer or murderer." I, for one, hope this clarifies my point of view and if not, well, it can't get much clearer, LOL, so carry on and have a good day! :)
I think the alternate theory is being discussed because Frazee plans to introduce "alternate" suspects.
We wondered all along if he would end up pointing the finger at KK and now it seems like this is exactly what their defense is going to be.
If it turns out to be a different suspect altogether, then this case is going to get even crazier. Imo
 
  • #703
Color me confused, but has anyone said that they believe "KK's the real killer or "KK's the real murderer?"

I have said numerous times PF is guilty and deserves life in prison as I do believe he killed KB, and I have also said from the beginning that I hope KK does not just get a slap on the hand as she has played several roles throughout this, however, I do not feel she is the 'killer or murderer." I, for one, hope this clarifies my point of view and if not, well, it can't get much clearer, LOL, so carry on and have a good day! :)

BBM:
My post was actually in response to another member's post. I'm not sure why you think I was suggesting anyone here has said KK killed KB, but I'm happy to try to clear up any confusion my earlier post may have caused.

It's fairly obvious to those of us who followed the hearing on Friday that the DA is anticipating that PF's attorney will employ an "alternate suspect" defense.

I ain't a rocket scientist; fortunately, it doesn't take a degree in rocket science to figure out that the "alternate suspect" the defense may try to pin the actual murder on is KK.

So, when I referenced the "KK'S the real killler" theory in my post, I was actually talking about the potential defense PF's lawyers may try to mount. I wasn't suggesting that anyone here has said that KK is the real killer.

Like the DA, I along with a plethora of other posters here have been fully anticipating that PF's attorney will attempt to suggest that KK's the one who killled KB when PF goes on trial.

That defense strategy is what I was speaking to in my post responding to @MassGuy's op.

@MassGuy, I sure hope you didn't interpret my response to your post to mean that I was suggesting you believe KK is the real killer. If so, my sincere apologies! I know you would never say such a thing, especially seeing as how you're the one who first coined the phrase, "PF swung the bat."

Actually, I think it was me who coined that phrase.
Regardless...we're agreed on who swung the bat.

His initials aren't KK.

JMO.
 
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  • #704
  • #705
  • #706
Other then KK, the only person that comes to mind is PF mother....
 
  • #707
Other then KK, the only person that comes to mind is PF mother....

Norman would do anything for Norma.

Likewise, I don’t think there’s a chance in hell that PF allows his attorneys to point the finger at his mommy.
 
  • #708
Other then KK, the only person that comes to mind is PF mother....
It has crossed my mind whether he might throw KKs aunt or one of KK's friends or even a relative KB's.
 
  • #709
Norman would do anything for Norma.

Likewise, I don’t think there’s a chance in hell that PF allows his attorneys to point the finger at his mommy.

Ah. So, you're thinking that PF's filial devotion to Ma is such that he'll flatly reject any suggestion by his Defenders to chuck her under the bus?

Interesting!
I say interesting, because I actually have a slightly different read on it.

I think PF despises women and regards all women with complete disdain, his mother included.
I think PF would have no qualms about letting Ma F. become the scapegoat for his own evil actions.

I think the only thing stopping PF and his legal team from laying the finger of blame on Mother is the fact that if he does that, bro/SF2 will almost certainly flip on PF and become quite chatty on the stand when questioned by the DA. There's a lot that PF's bro can share re:Thanksgiving day at the franch, what he said in conversation w/ PF right before PF told detectives he wanted to speak to a lawyer, etc.

We agree that PF's defense team won't insinuate Ma F. is the guilty party, we just have different thoughts as to why they won't go down that road.

I think you give PF way too much credit if you think him capable of human emotions such as devotion to one's mother even warped devotion such as Norman had for Norma, God rest her utterly fictitious soul.

JMO.
 
  • #710
She's never going to be charged with murder no matter what the jury thinks. They're not deciding the charges.

The only exception I can think for that would be if she confessed and they can prove she was actually there.

Good to see an attorney here. I look forward to your legal insight on this case.
 
  • #711
Ah. So, you're thinking that PF's filial devotion to Ma is such that he'll flatly reject any suggestion by his Defenders to chuck her under the bus?

Interesting!
I say interesting, because I actually have a slightly different read on it.

I think PF despises women and regards all women with complete disdain, his mother included.
I think PF would have no qualms about letting Ma F. become the scapegoat for his own evil actions.

I think the only thing stopping PF and his legal team from laying the finger of blame on Mother is the fact that if he does that, bro/SF2 will almost certainly flip on PF and become quite chatty on the stand when questioned by the DA. There's a lot that PF's bro can share re:Thanksgiving day at the franch, what he said in conversation w/ PF right before PF told detectives he wanted to speak to a lawyer, etc.

We agree that PF's defense team won't insinuate Ma F. is the guilty party, we just have different thoughts as to why they won't go down that road.

I think you give PF way too much credit if you think him capable of human emotions such as devotion to one's mother even warped devotion such as Norman had for Norma, God rest her utterly fictitious soul.

JMO.

After murdering Kelsey, PF made two phone calls.

One to KK, ostensibly to tell her “you have a mess to clean up.”

The other, to mommy.

Whether he loves her or needs her, I think he’s devoted to her. She was a built in babysitter, and a financial golden egg.

Well, some sort of egg anyways.
 
  • #712
I just looked up Krystal's Idaho license and it is renewed (this month) and unencumbered until August 2021. Interesting....

I'm grateful you're doing that.
It is morally reprehensible that she should masquerade as a care-giver, health provider.

That's disgusting. They don't need a trial, if what she has admitted to herself is not enough then I have no more to say about their dubious rules/requirements. Interesting to say the least, disgusting to say the most (the nicest term I have). Talk about a backwards world. I suppose someone that admitted to covering for a child molester would keep their teacher's license as well even if children were over to their home?! She stalked KB and admitted it, with weapons.

Masquerade is a great word. Nurturing caregiver? Empathetic mother? Protector/defender of other women/mothers? Barf.

It stands out to me it is allegedly KB that ran meds to PF the night before her murder and it is PF that ran Tylenol and pizza slices to KK after allegedly burning KB's body. KB an empathetic caregiver--KK a nurse who was rewarded by PF waiting on her with pain reliever for being his CO-conspirator in KB's murder.

I

I didn’t remember agent slater saying there was no evidence of abuse. Thank you for that. Still, if PF suspected it, why take the matter into his own hands? I would report it right away. Surely DFS would have records of it being reported. So why didn’t he?

I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around someone being angry enough to beat someone with a baseball bat. It sounds like the DA wasn’t even sure he could prove lying in wait and that’s premeditation. I would think a premeditated murder would have been with a gun. And he was just with her the night before. Why the bat?

Well what do I know? I remember thinking Scott Peterson was innocent....until they caught him with red hair and money for a run and a map to his girlfriends home. :(

Well we disagree there--I never thought Scott Peterson was innocent from day one :)

I agree though here, the AG even said that "lying in wait" would not even make it to halftime or something like that before that claim was incinerated (paraphrasing--I used incinerated on purpose, it was not his word).

I don't care if PF swung the bat or KK shot a gun. I don't care if PF cleaned up and KK sat at Sonic pigging out waiting for him while he did. To me they are both guilty as sin and always will be. Hopefully he goes down despite her obvious lies in some areas and a lusterless and far from believable star witness.

I can't wait to see the proof, if any even exists, that KK was not in Colorado at the time that KB was murdered.

I'd say (JMO), that the defense will rip KK's stories/testimony to shreds and in the end, her testimony could possibly hurt the prosecutors because the defense will be able to instill lots of doubt into the jurors because after all, KK had a lot to gain by agreeing to testify for the prosecution because if she had not agreed, she wouldn't have been offered a deal in the 1st place. That is obvious. Regardless, in the end..... Yes, I want PF to be found guilty and be sentenced to life in prison - that is #1 priority (IMO). But also, I want others that were involved to also be held accountable and punished for any and all roles they played regarding their actions, participation, planning, getting rid of evidence, etc., etc.

I could not agree more. I have said the same many times and am always told I think KK killed KB and PF is innocent. I have never said any such thing but hear it ad nauseum so I guess I do not make that clear apparently.

Personally, if the deal had been for 20 years or even 10, people may be a bit less upset. However, they gave this co-conspirator a chance of no time AT ALL and at most not even a slap of the hand, more like a tap on her pinky by the other side's pinky thanking her and bowing down.

I also dislike the decision to shorten the time for the defense to act on their alternate suspect theory and I dislike the prosecution saying ten days was not enough time to prepare. It seems ripe for appeal to me even though I do not like decisions on the defense's behalf, it protects against appeal.

I cannot even say the number of people who follow this case here and even more many places elsewhere who have predicted for 3/4 of a year that would be the defense so for the prosecution to say they need time to prepare for that defense is laughable and ludicrous--most average joes knew that defense was coming as did the prosecution. Perhaps it is a tactic, otherwise they had better have been prepared for it long before now, it was obvious such a defense would likely be coming, again even to us average joes and joannas.

I don't post often so taking care of a few thoughts and replies at once. I as well as some others hope they have absolute proof of where KK was on Thanksgiving and days before and after. I do not mean her daddy saying he saw her Thanksgiving--and he never ever said to my knowledge where that was--I mean video at work, on the streets of Idaho, etc. I also hope they have video unknown to us as to PF taking KB or the tote out of the condo, etc., when KK went in, PF went in, out and etc.

They perhaps do and I sure the hec* hope so. If so, praise God imo. If not, the holes remain.

I see this as a duo, not an uno despite who did what until I see more. They both imo are guilty as sin. I don't care who swung the bat or pulled the trigger.

Jmo.
 
  • #713
Timeline - PART 2
(Dec. 12 , 2018 - Feb 26, 2019)

snipped for attention

Wow..says alot about his character.

  • Why she helped? KK wanted to please PF and feared retaliatory action from PF toward her own child. per Slater.
  • KK told Slater that she loved him and feared for her life and family's life. KK said PF told her, "One day your daughter can be playing on the playground and the next she can be gone.”
  • KK claimed she did all this out of fear of PF. KK said she was worried that he had people watching her, like he claimed he had people watching
 
  • #714
After murdering Kelsey, PF made two phone calls.

One to KK, ostensibly to tell her “you have a mess to clean up.”

The other, to mommy.

Whether he loves her or needs her, I think he’s devoted to her. She was a built in babysitter, and a financial golden egg.

Well, some sort of egg anyways.

I actually think it's possible she knew exactly what was going to happen and helped cover for her precious. But @GordianKnot makes a good point. Being spoiled and dependent on mommy doesn't necessarily mean he is loyal to her.
 
  • #715
November 18-21, 2018
  • Slater says he knew KB had dinner with a coworker the week of Thanksgiving. Didn’t say who.
If KB's coworker had knowledge of what was going on between KB and PF it could be very beneficial at trial.
 
  • #716
November 18-21, 2018
  • Slater says he knew KB had dinner with a coworker the week of Thanksgiving. Didn’t say who.
If KB's coworker had knowledge of what was going on between KB and PF it could be very beneficial at trial.

Unfortunately, if it was a male companion, I think it will be twisted by the defense. Eg. they may claim Kelsey was unfaithful, this wasn’t the first time, poor PF put up with a lot. And that she would not have told the truth about her existing relationship to a date.

I also believe that if she was spreading her wings and making friends at work (male or female), this may have contributed to his feeling of loss of control and rage. He didn’t want her, but he didn’t want her to have a life. IMO.
 
  • #717
The whole reason PF tried so hard to get KK to do his bidding was so he could possibly pin it on her. So now it's going to be a, "he said, she said" situation...great. Praying the evidence makes it completely clear to the jury....(I could not bring myself to write crystal clear.) Because it would be so unjust if PF gets off because the defense points the finger at the prosecution's number one witness.
 
  • #718
Unfortunately, if it was a male companion, I think it will be twisted by the defense. Eg. they may claim Kelsey was unfaithful, this wasn’t the first time, poor PF put up with a lot. And that she would not have told the truth about her existing relationship to a date.

I also believe that if she was spreading her wings and making friends at work (male or female), this may have contributed to his feeling of loss of control and rage. He didn’t want her, but he didn’t want her to have a life. IMO.

KK stated her and PF reconnected in Oct 2017 and began an intimate relationship in March of 2018. I'm not sure the defense will have much luck going with the unfaithful route.
jmo
 
  • #719
We need a body. I'm only about 45 minutes away. Hmmm...
 
  • #720
After murdering Kelsey, PF made two phone calls.

One to KK, ostensibly to tell her “you have a mess to clean up.”

The other, to mommy.

Whether he loves her or needs her, I think he’s devoted to her. She was a built in babysitter, and a financial golden egg.

Well, some sort of egg anyways.

PF ain't Stevie Wonder.
I guarantee you he didn't give Ma F. a jingle so's he could croon, "I just called to say I love you" in her ear.

Here's what I imagine the content of his call to Ma F. was after he murdered KB:

"I'm running late. Kelsey took off to Idaho to see her grandma, so I'm bringing the baby to the franch.
You're going to have to watch her after dinner. I have to go out again tonight after I eat.
What? What do you mean, where? It's none of your business where! Don't ask such stupid questions!
Keep my dinner in the oven. Make sure you save me the turkey legs, and a couple of pieces of pumpkin pie.
I'm starving."

JMO.
 
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