Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #54 *ARREST*

[MassGuy]

There is no evidence as to TOD or DOD, no murder weapon, no body, a cleaned crime scene but a whole lotta "she said he told her."

I doubt her words "bury him" with the jury after they learn she returned her friend's gun with a missing bullet.

The best outcome is if he takes a plea deal and that's wishful thinking on my part.

JMO

There’s no way in hell he’s taking a plea deal, he’s way too narcissistic for that.

There is plenty of evidence as to time of death. It’s right in the arrest affidavit, and was discussed during the probable cause hearing.

This idea that there is no firm TOD is patently false.

In short:

He lies about when he last sees Kelsey.

He is caught on video returning to her house.

He leaves, and her cell phone leaves at the same time, despite the fact that he claims he had last contact with her hours before.

Her phone goes where his goes, and he maintains contact with her over the next couple days.

This, despite the fact that no one ever saw her alive after he walked through her door.

Kelsey was not alive, driving around with him, and spending time at his house.

Even he doesn’t claim that.

The best outcome is a first degree murder conviction, which I have no doubt is in the offing.

Patrick Frazee ain’t walking, because this arrogant monster decided to tell lie after lie, and engage in deception after deception.

Lies and deceptions that can be proven, with or without KK.

I’m not even the least bit concerned about him walking, because I have rarely seen a case this strong.

Body or not.

 

[GordianKnot]

There’s no way in hell he’s taking a plea deal. Just like there was no way in hell the prosecution was going to go for the death penalty.

There is plenty of evidence as to time of death. It’s right in the arrest affidavit, and was discussed during the probable cause hearing.

This idea that there is no firm TOD is patently false.

In short:

He lies about when he last sees Kelsey.

He is caught on video returning to her house.

He leaves, and her cell phone leaves at the same time, despite the fact that he claims he had last contact with her hours before.

Her phone goes where his goes, and he maintains contact with her over the next couple days.

This, despite the fact that no one ever saw her alive after he walked through her door.

Kelsey was not alive, driving around with him, and spending time at his house.

The best outcome is a first degree murder conviction, which I have no doubt is in the offing.

Patrick Frazee ain’t walking, because this arrogant monster decided to tell lie after lie, and engage in deception after deception.

Lies and deceptions that can be proven, with or without KK.

I’m not even the least bit concerned about him walking, because I have rarely seen a case this strong.

Body or not.

Right.

Normally, I'd agree that no body cases pose more of a challenge.

With this defendant, though, it's pretty much: "No body? No problem!"

What you've just eloquently cited is a whole passel of indisputable circumstantial evidence.

Believe it or not, all of that's likely just the tip of the iceberg:

There's also all the evidence we haven't heard about yet, and likely won't hear about until the trial, eg., the plethora of forensic evidence collected at both KB's and PF's, PF's computer searches, voicemails, text messages, and/or email messages he sent to KK r/t his soliciting her to murder KB, etc.

The evidence we know of to date is damning to PF.

The evidence we find out about at trial will be infinitely more damning to PF.

The evidence is what will seal his fate, because the evidence is what proves him to be guilty.

PF has brilliantly managed to provide the DA with an absolutely ironclad case with or without KB's actual remains.

I don't think any of us need to be overly concerned that ludicrous attempts to ascribe guilt for KB's murder to KK are going to carry the day over cold, hard facts and an overwhelming amount of evidence pointing to PF's guilt.

The prosecution is going to painstakingly walk the jury through each and every single piece of evidence that PF left like a blazing trail of neon flashing bread crumbs for LE to follow.

Admittedly, this is going to take some time, because there's a veritable mountain of evidence to bury PF with here.

It almost makes you wish there was a mercy rule for court cases, which is to say, I'm so glad there isn't a mercy rule in effect for court cases.

PF doesn't deserve any mercy.

He showed KB none whatsoever.

JMO.

 

[Dave F.]

I'm unclear how an ex husband, who has just been informed by an investigator that his ex-wife had lied to him, thus agreeing that her story to him was untrue, provides corroboration of her location on 11/22/2018. If he believed her story to begin with, that would tend to tell ME that he really DIDN'T know where she was. Hindsight is always 20/20, but it is not corroboration. But that js my opinion, and I'm not on the jury. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

I'm unclear how an ex husband, who has just been informed by an investigator that his ex-wife had lied to him, thus agreeing that her story to him was untrue, provides corroboration of her location on 11/22/2018. If he believed her story to begin with, that would tend to tell ME that he really DIDN'T know where she was. Hindsight is always 20/20, but it is not corroboration. But that js my opinion, and I'm not on the jury. MOO

They live in the same house. He knew when she was away, but not where she was.

 

[MemPat]

Right.

Normally, I'd agree that no body cases pose more of a challenge.

With this defendant, though, it's pretty much: "No body? No problem!"

What you've just eloquently cited is a whole passel of indisputable circumstantial evidence.

Believe it or not, all of that's likely just the tip of the iceberg:

There's also all the evidence we haven't heard about yet, and likely won't hear about until the trial, eg., the plethora of forensic evidence collected at both KB's and PF's, PF's computer searches, voicemails, text messages, and/or email messages he sent to KK r/t his soliciting her to murder KB, etc.

The evidence we know of to date is damning to PF.

The evidence we find out about at trial will be infinitely more damning to PF.

The evidence is what will seal his fate, because the evidence is what proves him to be guilty.

PF has brilliantly managed to provide the DA with an absolutely ironclad case with or without KB's actual remains.

I don't think any of us need to be overly concerned that ludicrous attempts to ascribe guilt for KB's murder to KK are going to carry the day over cold, hard facts and an overwhelming amount of evidence pointing to PF's guilt.

The prosecution is going to painstakingly walk the jury through each and every single piece of evidence that PF left like a blazing trail of neon flashing bread crumbs for LE to follow.

Admittedly, this is going to take some time, because there's a veritable mountain of evidence to bury PF with here.

It almost makes you wish there was a mercy rule for court cases, which is to say, I'm so glad there isn't a mercy rule in effect for court cases.

PF doesn't deserve any mercy.

He showed KB none whatsoever.

JMO.

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, MG and GK! Oh, how I've missed you!

Please come to Ally Kostial's thread and that of Jennifer Dulos.

The conversation is always better when you're both in it!

 

[Dave F.]

They live in the same house. He knew when she was away, but not where she was.

I have to agree with that. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

I hope you are correct. Right now, I think they could both be guilty with only one going to prison. But what do I know?

Their guilt is not a question.

I believe PF is guilty of murder.

KK already admitted her guilt on Feb 8, and will be sentenced for tampering with evidence connected to the death of Kelsey, after all trials related to Kelsey's disappearance are completed.

Why do you think only one is going to prison?

Where is the other one going?

UPDATE: Magic Valley woman pleads guilty to tampering with evidence in Colorado

 

[MyBelle]

There’s no way in hell he’s taking a plea deal, he’s way too narcissistic for that.

There is plenty of evidence as to time of death. It’s right in the arrest affidavit, and was discussed during the probable cause hearing.

This idea that there is no firm TOD is patently false.

In short:

He lies about when he last sees Kelsey.

He is caught on video returning to her house.

He leaves, and her cell phone leaves at the same time, despite the fact that he claims he had last contact with her hours before.

Her phone goes where his goes, and he maintains contact with her over the next couple days.

This, despite the fact that no one ever saw her alive after he walked through her door.

Kelsey was not alive, driving around with him, and spending time at his house.

Even he doesn’t claim that.

The best outcome is a first degree murder conviction, which I have no doubt is in the offing.

Patrick Frazee ain’t walking, because this arrogant monster decided to tell lie after lie, and engage in deception after deception.

Lies and deceptions that can be proven, with or without KK.

I’m not even the least bit concerned about him walking, because I have rarely seen a case this strong.

Body or not.

BBM. LOL. Many said the same thing about the Casey Anthony case. Please cite a case of a successful prosecution of premeditated 1st degree murder where there was no body, no TOD, no ME, no weapon, no motive and a cleaned "alleged" crime scene by a co-conspirator.

There is no evidence that places KB's cell phone in PF's hands. KK has admitted she disposed of the cell phone. She admitted to friends months in advance that PF wanted KB dead. She has admitted she twice approached KB's home in order to harm her. There is no way a jury can or will ignore these facts.

The ME usually testifies about TOD and there is no ME in this case because there is no body.

The arrest affidavit lists TOD as "on or about" because it is not known. PF will just say he was confused about when he last saw KB because it was an unremarkable event.

By all means, keep up the optimism toward a conviction but it remains only your opinion because this case has no ME as a witness and sadly lacks evidence that conclusively points to PF.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I'm unclear how an ex husband, who has just been informed by an investigator that his ex-wife had lied to him, thus agreeing that her story to him was untrue, provides corroboration of her location on 11/22/2018. If he believed her story to begin with, that would tend to tell ME that he really DIDN'T know where she was. Hindsight is always 20/20, but it is not corroboration. But that js my opinion, and I'm not on the jury. MOO

Not only is it your opinion, it is common sense.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

BBM. LOL. Many said the same thing about the Casey Anthony case. Please cite a case of a successful prosecution of premeditated 1st degree murder where there was no body, no TOD, no ME, no weapon, no motive and a cleaned "alleged" crime scene by a co-conspirator.

There is no evidence that places KB's cell phone in PF's hands. KK has admitted she disposed of the cell phone. She admitted to friends months in advance that PF wanted KB dead. She has admitted she twice approached KB's home in order to harm her. There is no way a jury can or will ignore these facts.

The ME usually testifies about TOD and there is no ME in this case because there is no body.

The arrest affidavit lists TOD as "on or about" because it is not known. PF will just say he was confused about when he last saw KB because it was an unremarkable event.

By all means, keep up the optimism toward a conviction but it remains only your opinion because this case has no ME as a witness and sadly lacks evidence that conclusively points to PF.

JMO

Yes. I recall some people felt the same way about the Watts case.

All this evidence, and it apparently means nothing.

Time of death is circumstantial, but incredibly compelling.

We didn’t have a time of death there, but it didn’t matter. We had window.

Here we have a window of just over an hour.

You do not need a time of death, a body, or a weapon to prove that a murder occurred, and a particular person did it.

You don’t even need to know the motive.

Custody is as good as any potential motive here, not that it matters.

And seriously, you want me to cite a case that is exactly like this one? With a co-conspirator who cleaned the crime scene?

I’ll get right on that, as soon as you show me the evidence that KK was in Idaho during the murder is wrong, and point me towards the evidence that she was in fact in Colorado at that time.

It doesn’t exist.

Just like the evidence that SW killed her kids doesn’t exist.

You cannot ignore evidence, rely on theoretical evidence, and ever be right.

It does not work that way.

 

[k-mac]

Ha! If a proven liar tells you something, you always do your due diligence.

Treat everything as a lie, until it is verified.

Follow any case like this (with a criminal testifying for the prosecution), and that practice is invariably employed.

They wouldn’t want a potential murder to avoid charges (KK), or an accused murderer to walk (PF) as a result of lies told by the star witness on the stand.

Of course they have the answers. We’ll just have to wait for them.

100%
they know what a she is and proven liar.
no way in hell they are taking her word for ANYTHING.
they got 100% proof to support her claims.
nothing to do with her grace and dignity that's for sure.
her sweety beauty deal sux and I am still hopeful that all these huge questions we still have @Love Never Fails come out and the noose is allowed to tighten!

moo

 

[Hatch]

Unfortunately, she's not yet been convicted.

I'm certain there's no way she will be able to renew her license come 2021, and I doubt she's currently working. Don't imagine anybody knocking on her door to hire her. MOO

I bet she is gainfully employed in the medical field. As unfair as that seems.

 

[PommyMommy]

There’s no way in hell he’s taking a plea deal, he’s way too narcissistic for that.

There is plenty of evidence as to time of death. It’s right in the arrest affidavit, and was discussed during the probable cause hearing.

This idea that there is no firm TOD is patently false.

In short:

He lies about when he last sees Kelsey.

He is caught on video returning to her house.

He leaves, and her cell phone leaves at the same time, despite the fact that he claims he had last contact with her hours before.

Her phone goes where his goes, and he maintains contact with her over the next couple days.

This, despite the fact that no one ever saw her alive after he walked through her door.

Kelsey was not alive, driving around with him, and spending time at his house.

Even he doesn’t claim that.

The best outcome is a first degree murder conviction, which I have no doubt is in the offing.

Patrick Frazee ain’t walking, because this arrogant monster decided to tell lie after lie, and engage in deception after deception.

Lies and deceptions that can be proven, with or without KK.

I’m not even the least bit concerned about him walking, because I have rarely seen a case this strong.

Body or not.

You should just go ahead and make this your signature line for anyone who doesn't have it memorized yet. I'm getting Watts case deja vu here, too. Ugh. MOO

 

[Love Never Fails]

My posts were kind.

My posts were legitimate.

My questions of KKLs involvement and the investigation are legitimate.

NOTHING about this case, nor the posts from people who have questions, even slightly resembles the Watts case.

 

[Love Never Fails]

The only corroboration for KKL’s claim to be in Idaho on 11/22/2018 is contained in the Arrest Affidavit, Heading: Interview of (MG*), a longtime Friend and co-worker of (KKL*).Page 7, numbered line 52. The same witness’s concern for the missing bullet in her pistol is described on the same page, numbered line 56.
*Full surnames of the witnesses were deleted by me to conform to WS standards
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/001/Redacted C&I 18CR330.pdf
It would seem to me to be a package deal for a jury. Either the witness is truthful, or the witness is not. MOO

Thanks for reminding others here are questions that must be answered.

 

[MassGuy]

My posts were kind.

My posts were legitimate.

My questions of KKLs involvement and the investigation are legitimate.

NOTHING about this case, nor the posts from people who have questions, even slightly resembles the Watts case.

The behavior is the same, not the case.

This idea that the theoretical existence of evidence, is in fact evidence.

In that one, the autopsy was going to show that Shanann murdered her kids.

In this one, evidence is going to come to light that both negates the evidence of KK being in Idaho at the time of the murder, and manages to put her in Colorado at that time.

That’s the comparison.

 

[PommyMommy]

The behavior is the same, not the case.

This idea that the theoretical existence of evidence, is in fact evidence.

In that one, the autopsy was going to show that Shanann murdered her kids.

In this one, evidence is going to come to light that both negates the evidence of KK being in Idaho at the time of the murder, and manages to put her in Colorado at that time.

That’s the comparison.

Yes, exactly. I'm sorry @Love Never Fails, I should have been more clear about what I meant by Watts case deja vu. It was not directed at you or any of your posts. MOO

 

[MyBelle]

There’s no way in hell he’s taking a plea deal, he’s way too narcissistic for that.

There is plenty of evidence as to time of death. It’s right in the arrest affidavit, and was discussed during the probable cause hearing.

This idea that there is no firm TOD is patently false.

In short:

He lies about when he last sees Kelsey.

He is caught on video returning to her house.

He leaves, and her cell phone leaves at the same time, despite the fact that he claims he had last contact with her hours before.

Her phone goes where his goes, and he maintains contact with her over the next couple days.

This, despite the fact that no one ever saw her alive after he walked through her door.

Kelsey was not alive, driving around with him, and spending time at his house.

Even he doesn’t claim that.

The best outcome is a first degree murder conviction, which I have no doubt is in the offing.

Patrick Frazee ain’t walking, because this arrogant monster decided to tell lie after lie, and engage in deception after deception.

Lies and deceptions that can be proven, with or without KK.

I’m not even the least bit concerned about him walking, because I have rarely seen a case this strong.

Body or not.

BBM. That is your opinion and I disagree. The arrest affidavit lists TOD as "on or about." That's because LE doesn't know for sure and there will not be testimony from an ME at trial.

If evidence in this case was strong the sweet deal with KK wouldn't be necessary.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

BBM. That is your opinion and I disagree. The arrest affidavit lists TOD as "on or about." That's because LE doesn't know for sure and there will not be testimony from an ME at trial.

If evidence in this case was strong the sweet deal with KK wouldn't be necessary.

JMO

It’s strong now, because of what she contributed.

That’s the reason she got a deal in the first place.

Before her they had little evidence of a crime.

She pointed them to evidence, and offered clarity on what they did have.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes. I recall some people felt the same way about the Watts case.

All this evidence, and it apparently means nothing.

Time of death is circumstantial, but incredibly compelling.

We didn’t have a time of death there, but it didn’t matter. We had window.

Here we have a window of just over an hour.

You do not need a time of death, a body, or a weapon to prove that a murder occurred, and a particular person did it.

You don’t even need to know the motive.

Custody is as good as any potential motive here, not that it matters.

And seriously, you want me to cite a case that is exactly like this one? With a co-conspirator who cleaned the crime scene?

I’ll get right on that, as soon as you show me the evidence that KK was in Idaho during the murder is wrong, and point me towards the evidence that she was in fact in Colorado at that time.

It doesn’t exist.

Just like the evidence that SW killed her kids doesn’t exist.

You cannot ignore evidence, rely on theoretical evidence, and ever be right.

It does not work that way.

There is no comparison between the Watts case and this one. In the Watts case, bodies were found and Watts confessed to the murders. A case that more closely resembles this one is the Dulos case.

JMO