Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #54 *ARREST*

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  • #301
There is no comparison between the Watts case and this one. In the Watts case, bodies were found and Watts confessed to the murders. A case that more closely resembles this one is the Dulos case.

JMO

The post was focusing on “theoretical evidence being evidence.”

And the willful disregard of evidence to formulate a theory that runs contrary to known facts.

It’s like trying to put a puzzle together, and replacing puzzle pieces with random household objects.
 
  • #302
Let’s keep this thread open. :D
 
  • #303
It’s strong now, because of what she contributed.

That’s the reason she got a deal in the first place.

Before her they had little evidence of a crime.

She pointed them to evidence, and offered clarity on what they did have.

Exactly.

This point often gets overlooked and/or intentionally disregarded for some inexplicable reason.

The DA has explicitly stated that KK directly led them to evidence they would not otherwise have known, including giving LE the information about the bonfire at the ranch and where the murder took place at KB's.

What she told them was borne out by the fact that they did find evidence where she told them they could expect to find it.

She has no reason now to lie as doing so would completely nullify her sweetie beauty of a deal.

If she lies about anything now, she's looking at doing hard prison time.

She has the strongest positive incentive to tell the truth; namely, self-preservation.

For someone as selfish as her, that's all that matters.

JMO.
 
  • #304
BBM. That is your opinion and I disagree. The arrest affidavit lists TOD as "on or about." That's because LE doesn't know for sure and there will not be testimony from an ME at trial.

If evidence in this case was strong the sweet deal with KK wouldn't be necessary.

JMO
With all due respect, if evidence in the case was not strong Frazee wouldn't have been arrested and in jail without bond all this time.

That isn't the way it works.

Regarding TOD, I've seen few cases that didn't say "on or about" in the arrest info. (Well, one I remember was where a woman was hit over the head with a clock radio.)
 
  • #305
Unfortunately, she's not yet been convicted.

I'm certain there's no way she will be able to renew her license come 2021, and I doubt she's currently working. Don't imagine anybody knocking on her door to hire her. MOO

I know it is not the same thing but it is in some ways, the person charged in the murder of Ally Kostial was suspended from the U when he was charged. He is not convicted. It is a murder charge where KK is not charged with murder but it is still based on what is known thus far and no conviction and innocent until proven guilty in the Kostial case and yet he has repercussions.

KK has admitted to plenty and as a nurse she should have no active license with the things she has admitted to, including disposing of things at the very hospital she worked at. If I ever see her at a facility I will throw a fit and call the media and blast it all over SM :mad:. It just is not right. A conviction is not even needed here, by her own admission there are things I would think would be relevant to that license being pulled.

It perhaps does not work like that, but in an ideal world it should imo.
 
  • #306
With all due respect, if evidence in the case was not strong Frazee wouldn't have been arrested and in jail without bond all this time.

That isn't the way it works.

Regarding TOD, I've seen few cases that didn't say "on or about" in the arrest info. (Well, one I remember was where a woman was hit over the head with a clock radio.)
Actually, it has worked that way in many cases. A man was just today released from prison after spending over 20 years for a crime he didn’t commit. The person who testified against him in the beginning admitted early on that he lied and he was the killer himself yet the courts wouldn’t hear him. Finally the innocent party got out of prison. He is now 44. His life was ruined because of a lie. He was arrested and didn’t bond out. So yeah, it happens.

We don’t have the evidence on PF or KKL. We only know what we have been told. That is always the case until trial. Oh and yes, we have the word of a known liar. And we are supposed to give her credit for supposedly telling the truth now? <modsnip > We should all be able to have our opinions.
 
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  • #307
With all due respect, if evidence in the case was not strong Frazee wouldn't have been arrested and in jail without bond all this time.

That isn't the way it works.

Regarding TOD, I've seen few cases that didn't say "on or about" in the arrest info. (Well, one I remember was where a woman was hit over the head with a clock radio.)

Frazee wasn't arrested until after KK cut her sweet deal which was my point. An arrest doesn't guarantee PF be convicted of 1st degree murder. As for the TOD, there can't be a TOD because the body is still missing and the investigation continues. In this case, until the body is found the TOD is just a guess.

The new report recorded no homicides for last year.

The presumed death of 29-year-old mother and Woodland Park resident Kelsey Berreth, who was last seen publicly on Thanksgiving Day, is not documented as a homicide because her body hasn’t been found, authorities have said.

“It’s still a homicide investigation; it’s being investigated as no-body homicide,” De Young said of the high-profile case, which captured worldwide media attention.

Most likely to die of suicide in Teller County detailed in new report
 
  • #308
Actually, it has worked that way in many cases. A man was just today released from prison after spending over 20 years for a crime he didn’t commit. The person who testified against him in the beginning admitted early on that he lied and he was the killer himself yet the courts wouldn’t hear him. Finally the innocent party got out of prison. He is now 44. His life was ruined because of a lie. He was arrested and didn’t bond out. So yeah, it happens.

We don’t have the evidence on PF or KKL. We only know what we have been told. That is always the case until trial. Oh and yes, we have the word of a known liar. And we are supposed to give her credit for supposedly telling the truth now? I am one who is waiting for the trial before I start to trash posters with differing opinions. Not that I will anyway. We should all be able to have our opinions.

ITA. Ryan Ferguson received $10 million for his nearly decade in prison in Missouri based on the false confession of a friend of his.

I hope the forum can stay open and differing opinions respected.

JMO
 
  • #309
Actually, it has worked that way in many cases. A man was just today released from prison after spending over 20 years for a crime he didn’t commit. The person who testified against him in the beginning admitted early on that he lied and he was the killer himself yet the courts wouldn’t hear him. Finally the innocent party got out of prison. He is now 44. His life was ruined because of a lie. He was arrested and didn’t bond out. So yeah, it happens.

We don’t have the evidence on PF or KKL. We only know what we have been told. That is always the case until trial. Oh and yes, we have the word of a known liar. And we are supposed to give her credit for supposedly telling the truth now? I am one who is waiting for the trial before I start to trash posters with differing opinions. Not that I will anyway. We should all be able to have our opinions.

Well, I think there might be a "Yeah, but...." argument happening here.

We can totally agree that people have been convicted of crimes and were exonerated with new information.

It's a bit premature to compare this to Patrick Frazee's case, I'm thinkin'.

(I don't know the case you mentioned but I wonder if things might have been different with cell phone records and video.)

Have a great day!
 
  • #310
ITA. Ryan Ferguson received $10 million for his nearly decade in prison in Missouri based on the false confession of a friend of his.

I hope the forum can stay open and differing opinions respected.

JMO
MyBelle,
Yes, that’s all we are asking for. It could be a great thread.
 
  • #311
I know it is not the same thing but it is in some ways, the person charged in the murder of Ally Kostial was suspended from the U when he was charged. He is not convicted. It is a murder charge where KK is not charged with murder but it is still based on what is known thus far and no conviction and innocent until proven guilty in the Kostial case and yet he has repercussions.

KK has admitted to plenty and as a nurse she should have no active license with the things she has admitted to, including disposing of things at the very hospital she worked at. If I ever see her at a facility I will throw a fit and call the media and blast it all over SM :mad:. It just is not right. A conviction is not even needed here, by her own admission there are things I would think would be relevant to that license being pulled.

It perhaps does not work like that, but in an ideal world it should imo.

KK was a pre-op nurse at St Lukes. To my knowledge, she was also dismissed before she was arrested.

From my link a couple posts back:

St. Luke’s spokeswoman Michelle Bartlome confirmed in January that law enforcement had contacted the hospital. Bartlome, however, said she “wasn’t in a position to disclose” which agency made contact. She confirmed Monday that Kenney is no longer a St. Luke’s employee.
 
  • #312
Well, I think there might be a "Yeah, but...." argument happening here.

We can totally agree that people have been convicted of crimes and were exonerated with new information.

It's a bit premature to compare this to Patrick Frazee's case, I'm thinkin'.

(I don't know the case you mentioned but I wonder if things might have been different with cell phone records and video.)

But have a great day!
You too, MemPat.
 
  • #313
KK was a pre-op nurse at St Lukes. To my knowledge, she was also dismissed before she was arrested.

From my link a couple posts back:

St. Luke’s spokeswoman Michelle Bartlome confirmed in January that law enforcement had contacted the hospital. Bartlome, however, said she “wasn’t in a position to disclose” which agency made contact. She confirmed Monday that Kenney is no longer a St. Luke’s employee.

Yeah, that is one plus that she is not employed by them. I was talking about being licensed though. I am not saying in today's world that they may not need a conviction but again, in her case, she confessed to things already that should be enough to revoke it so why should they need a conviction?

In an IDEAL world.

Jmo.
 
  • #314
I’m just trying to be realistic here.
The St Luke’s Health System is one of the larger medical providers in the United States, with 180,000 employees in locations across Oregon and Idaho. Many of the people in medicine are not direct employees, but work for separate medical groups, or on individual service contracts. The only spokesperson who has spoken on this matter is only authorized to speak for St Lukes Magic Valley Medical Center in Twin Falls, where KKL was a surgical nurse. That lady was a highly respected news reporter and anchor for many years before joining St Lukes, so she knows exactly what to say, and how to say it. I would strongly recommend reading her words for what she said, without trying to add interpretation. MOO

UPDATE: Magic Valley woman pleads guilty to tampering with evidence in Colorado

St. Luke's - Home
 
  • #315
  • #316
BBM:

It IS a great thread.

JMO.

This has indeed been a wonderful thread and I look forward to great discussions that will come during the trial.

Call me crazy but I do struggle with how anyone would be surprised that a man tried to recruit someone to kill his fiancee for many months, then just gave in one day, got mad and did the deed himself.

The fact that the murder happened during broad daylight while the man was at the fiancee's condo....caught on video there, no less.....makes it so clear that he did it and I struggle when others argue that point.

That doesn't mean the others have no right to their opinions.

Yet, I struggle.
 
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  • #317
whatever the wording kk used to describe PF telling her she had a mess to clean up.....her mental involvement much greater than most think imo
she is smug because she knows they cant place her there. she got her desired outcome and played PF for a fool.

that's the picture I see.

moo
 
  • #318
BBM:

It IS a great thread.

JMO.
Agreed.^^^
As long as some can post and not be attacked by one , or two.

Thanks for your insightful and intelligent posts; GK and MG.

I am looking forward (if that's the right term) to the proceedings.

Both of the guilty parties need to suffer and pay for what they've done.

Imo; allowing someone to be murdered and taking a trip to do just that (3x) --- is as damning -- as doing the killing yourself.
How is the one any lesser than the other ?

Regardless... PF will hopefully leave prison in a pine box.
And may KK's reputation proceed her in all that she attempts to do with her useless life.
 
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  • #319
This has indeed been a wonderful thread and I look forward to great discussions that will come during the trial.

Call me crazy but I do struggle with how anyone would be surprised that a man tried to recruit someone to kill his fiancee for many months, then just gave in one day, got mad and killed her himself.

The fact that the murder happened during broad daylight while the man was at the fiancee's condo....caught on video there, no less.....makes it so clear that he did it and I struggle when others argue that point.

That doesn't mean the others have no right to their opinions.

Yet, I struggle.
I can understand you have taken the stand that the murder happened just as KKL said. But there were a lot of questions that came from the investigation. If PF is guilty, we all want him to pay. If someone or more than one was involved, or if another person committed the murder, we want them to pay. I understand your struggle.

I struggle when a person doesn’t want to hear about questions that have been asked about evidence. It is as if the trial was already over. I’m trying to understand why others are so condescending in their replies. I want to understand. Yet, I struggle.
 
  • #320
whatever the wording kk used to describe PF telling her she had a mess to clean up.....her mental involvement much greater than most think imo
she is smug because she knows they cant place her there. she got her desired outcome and played PF for a fool.

that's the picture I see.

moo

I think PF played himself for the fool he is.

She’s just as sick, twisted, and evil though.

He killed Kelsey, but she didn’t have a problem with it.

It takes a special kind of coldness to do what she did. She’s just lucky she was holding all the cards.
 
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