CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #7

[sun16]

If the locals, clients and potential customers of PF, and people (even strangers) who care about Kelsey want to put pressure on PF to sit down with LE and answer their questions ... STOP DOING BUSINESS WITH HIS COMPANY/HIM AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE YOU KNOW TO DO THE SAME.

 

[MsBetsy]

I certainly appreciate our VI, but in reality she's only repeating what PF said. Unless someone was there to witness the exchange, we're still in the dark as to what happened. Even with of both of her cars in her driveway, she could have taken baby to the ranch and then returned home.

I wish she would come back and answer some of our questions. Maybe she did and I missed it. She may have been asked not to say much due to the investigation.

 

[moonlessnight]

I see the same thing in the picture of him in his car. I think it's bc there is something that reminds me of my ex. Who is DH?

I think it is just a bad photo of him. Maybe a bad angle combined with a sleepless time in a new parent’s life? He’s a reasonably handsome and engaging looking fellow in the rest of the photos shared of him. Looks like a typical rancher cowboy type to me. He’s probably considered a catch.

DH, on the other hand, gets a Deliverance / Dueling Banjos vibe.... So there’s that...

moo!

 

[UnicornDragon]

Whoa. That’s great info. How do you know this? (That he didn’t opt to get Safety Connect?)

I don't know if PF opted for it, or if it even optional for his year truck. I know it's a Tacoma, nothing more.

My husband has a 2018 Tacoma that does not have Safety Connect. That's how I know it's optional.

 

[scdiv]

It seems there are two different stories. According to the VI, he went to Kelseys home to drop off the baby. But different news sources have said different things, so I'm not sure what the real story is. I think LE has said he dropped the baby off with her but would not name the location. I thought I had this right yesterday but it has changed so many times I'm not even sure what was verified, if at all. (By LE)

It may have just been inaccurate reporting. I don't recall which news source said which. But it was reported by LE that he dropped the baby off. So I think that's probably right. The VI said he dropped the baby off at her home but LE did not verify the location. Imo

MsBetsy, this is all so confusing, we are now confusing ourselves! I think you mean PF picked the baby up or KB dropped the baby off, not that PF dropped the baby off. I'm sure we will get a clearer picture at some point on what PF told her KB's mother and/or LE. It all sounds like a game of telephone at this point.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

It’s more likely the positioning of the family in the photo and how you feel about him parenting the daughter right now.

Could be.

 

[Charlot123]

OK, let us get away from PF for a second.

My intuition about him is totally silent. Same about KB.

I am beginning to think that maybe they were both introverted and private people.

Also - if your 29 year-old kid is in a stable relationship and lives far away, you would get snippets of the story, but probably, would not be on daily speaking terms with your kid's SO.

If your adult child says, "you were too nosy during my last relationship, I shall tell you about the new one when the time comes", you get what you get.

If your adult child is not in a relationship but dating, how much do you hear? Right. Nada. Unless the kid needs your advise about something. Then you get snippets.

Our kids want their lives to be stable, to settle down, but maybe they don't want to give us false expectations? This is why KB gave her mom a cover story - there is a kid, economy is bad, we shall get married (whenever), you will be the first one to know.

This is why her mom said, "they are loving". For lack of better information.

This lack of awareness that I see has little to do with religion. All the more so that in reading about 7th day Adventists yesterday, I realized that one simply can not assume. There are historic Adventists (conservative), Progressive ones, and most other churches, like most Protestant churches, fall in between. Their diet is cool (Kellogg was an Adventist, btw), and healthy lifestyle seems to pay off.

However, KB is a believer. And one thing most Adventists adhere to is Sabbath. And people usually don't change in minute habits.

Nov 22nd was Thursday. So the evening of Nov 23d and Nov 24th Kelsey should have been idle. A religious requirement.

Where was she during these days? What did she use to do on these days the previous year?

She could not be driving to Idaho, unless someone took her.

This is the question I would like to ask Kelsey's Aunt, if she is here.

And my general opinion about this shroud of silence.

Maybe people are not allowed to talk for different reasons. But the mother of a tiny child is missing. If KB is not found, it will be horrible for her family, but even more so, for her little daughter.

And from this standpoint, I don't understand anyone around her. Neither PF, nor her family. I feel very sorry for them, but how can one raise awareness about a person without telling us something about her, about her habits?

Some people here (not me) are great sleuthers. They could help. People around, in CO and ID, would feel sorry for a young mother who has disappeared.

But we need more information.

My question is, how would Kelsey, given her religion, normally be expected to spend the 24th, the Saturday?

 

[1wonderleads2another]

I am not in Colorado so I do not know this for sure but would it be possible for Kelsey to buy a used car in cash under a different name? (Isn’t that part of how the character in Gone Girl left ?)
Where I live this would be extremely easy to do. If she wore clothes with padding to make herself look heavier and a wig the car dealer or the individual who sold it wouldn’t even remember her, especially because she had all day Friday to get somewhere to buy it. JMO

I also think there is , even if it’s slight, a possibility that acquaintance or someone she met online picked her up

 

[NanZDrew]

Here is a photo of PF doing team roping:

Ford-Photography at PhotoReflect - Commisoner's Classic Team Roping Hall of Fame

Ford-Photography at PhotoReflect - Commisoner's Classic Team Roping Hall of Fame

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I think someone could have picked her up. And while possible, the disguised car buyer theory seems among the least likely option.

I am not in Colorado so I do not know this for sure but would it be possible for Kelsey to buy a used car in cash under a different name? (Isn’t that part of how the character in Gone Girl left ?)
Where I live this would be extremely easy to do. If she wore close with padding to make yourself look heavier and a wig the car dealer or the individual who sold it wouldn’t even remember her, especially because she had all day Friday to get somewhere to buy it. JMO

I also think there is , even if it’s slight, a possibility that acquaintance or someone she met online picked her up

 

[WhimsicalWillow]

OK, let us get away from PF for a second.

My intuition about him is totally silent. Same about KB.

I am beginning to think that maybe they were both introverted and private people.

Also - if your 29 year-old kid is in a stable relationship and lives far away, you would get snippets of the story, but probably, would not be on daily speaking terms with your kid's SO.

If your adult child says, "you were too nosy during my last relationship, I shall tell you about the new one when the time comes", you get what you get.

If your adult child is not in a relationship but dating, how much do you hear? Right. Nada. Unless the kid needs your advise about something. Then you get snippets.

Our kids want their lives to be stable, to settle down, but maybe they don't want to give us false expectations? This is why KB gave her mom a cover story - there is a kid, economy is bad, we shall get married (whenever), you will be the first one to know.

This is why her mom said, "they are loving". For lack of better information.

This lack of awareness that I see has little to do with religion. All the more so that in reading about 7th day Adventists yesterday, I realized that one simply can not assume. There are historic Adventists (conservative), Progressive ones, and most other churches, like most Protestant churches, fall in between. Their diet is cool (Kellogg was an Adventist, btw), and healthy lifestyle seems to pay off.

However, KB is a believer. And one thing most Adventists adhere to is Sabbath. And people usually don't change in minute habits.

Nov 22nd was Thursday. So the evening of Nov 23d and Nov 24th Kelsey should have been idle. A religious requirement.

Where was she during these days? What did she use to do on these days the previous year?

She could not be driving to Idaho, unless someone took her.

This is the question I would like to ask Kelsey's Aunt, if she is here.

And my general opinion about this shroud of silence.

Maybe people are not allowed to talk for different reasons. But the mother of a tiny child is missing. If KB is not found, it will be horrible for her family, but even more so, for her little daughter.

And from this standpoint, I don't understand anyone around her. Neither PF, nor her family. I feel very sorry for them, but how can one raise awareness about a person without telling us something about her, about her habits?

Some people here (not me) are great sleuthers. They could help. People around, in CO and ID, would feel sorry for a young mother who has disappeared.

But we need more information.

My question is, how would Kelsey, given her religion, normally be expected to spend the 24th, the Saturday?

We don’t know if KB kept the Adventist sabbath anymore... If KB was church-going, it doesn’t seem like she attended the same church as PF. Perhaps she takes on a looser term of what is required to be a “believer”, if she’s a Christian at all. I’ve known many evangelicals to not be church-going for long periods of their life.

I am in my 20s and as much as my mother would like to “think” we’re on talking terms. We are not. Why? She gives toxic, judgmental opinions and is easily provoked. The less I talk openly with my mother, the better we get along. Maybe it’s more commonplace to handle our mothers this way than it was back in the day.

I could sympathize with Shanann Watts having MIL issues as well. I cringe any time an in-law thinks they have equal rights to a child as if they’re the parent and I say that as someone who has always been extremely close with my Grandma (who was a #momboss back when not many were and who I respect).

 

[Deleted member 169742]

My mind has not stopped thinking about this case for days. Today I’ve been thinking through all of the possible scenarios to see if there is a reasonable one, given the fact we know, that does not include PF. In the shower this morning I came up with one!


ASSUMPTIONS:

PF and KB really do have just a custody share arrangement. As many have pointed out based on timing it seems that she may have gotten pregnant early into their “relationship”. And perhaps she told her mom they were engaged for religious/reputation reasons.


SCENARIO POSSIBILITY:

As Thanksgiving was approaching, PF and KB discussed custody for the holiday weekend – as many couples do. (Many couples that share custody alternate holidays and it is usually for more than just one day). She said he could have her as she was making plans with someone else.

Someone else is a co-worker or associate from work. They make plans – she is making cinnamon rolls and getting recipes for him. Of course, she is very vague with her mom about maybe getting a tree, maybe having dinner plans. She is not going to tell her super religious mom that she has no plans to marry her baby daddy and in fact has a separate boyfriend/love interest!!

Co-worker/love interest picks her up, says lets go to dinner – or whatever – she grabs her purse and phone and gets in his car. He abducts her. They take off. She’s kidnapped or killed, either scenario could be possible. The kidnapper realizes that at the end of the holiday weekend – Sunday 11/25, people will start to wonder if they don’t hear from her or she doesn’t show up at work, so the kidnapper/work associate knows about her work – as that’s where he met her – and knows about her baby’s father, because he has been getting to know her. So, those are the two people he thinks will expect her Sunday night/Monday morning so he sends the texts to buy some time.

If this is what happened, this work associate may have also been off the following week or no showed or if it’s a contractor or student, the employer wouldn’t know if that person’s schedule was off. And she would be dead or alive in ID or there abouts.


WAYS THIS MAY NOT ADD UP:

Search warrant evidence – what evidence did the police use to be able to get a search warrant. Does that discount this theory?

Lack of PF’s cooperation – Is PF not cooperating fully because he just watched the Watts case go down and knows he’s the most likely suspect and doesn’t want to get entrapped? Also, what would his LE family advise him to do?

........Ok I'm off to prepare my house for our big holiday party, but I'll check in later and look forward to hearing some thoughts on this possibility.

Best and most plausible scenario put forward yet.

 

[Deleted member 169742]

@SharonNeedles encouraged me with her posts to look at this case differently rather than on the path of typical.

JMO I think PF and KB worked out a schedule where he was the M-F child caregiver, and she was the weekend parent. She is gone 12 hours every work day. He is a pillar at his ranch, and she is a pillar at her job, and the relationship may have worn out but still be friendly.

What if PF did pick up the baby 11/22 and that's the last he saw of her other than the 11/25 text? What if she told him while she loves her baby, she's just tired and wanted the 4-day holiday for a Me Time break? She could have willingly left to go anywhere with anyone, and I don't believe she tells her family everything. CB calls on 12/2 and PF isn't concerned because they aren't really together any more and he has the baby. If they aren't really together any more, he may not know where she would go either, not his problem and KB may have been not sharing personal info with him any more. In this scenario, PF has new problems, too, because the other parent is missing - so he is now the 24/7 parent with no backup. Also, PF is not related to KB, so it makes more sense that CB files the missing person report.

I'm just trying to see the situation from an innocent PF point of view, try it out. I couldn't care less about any ex of mine, what they do, where they go.

That makes complete sense

Compliments

 

[SharonNeedles]

So KB decides to walk away from her life.

For whatever reason, she decides to hitchhike, even though she has two vehicles.

The first person who picks her up, harms her.

Not a chance.

Agreed, not a chance. But simplified down to what we know:

She's not at home, so obviously she left.

Nothing to suggest she was abducted from her home and she did take her purse and phone, so it would appear she left voluntarily.

Her vehicles didn't leave, so what? I would guess most likely she left with someone.

So wouldn't it make sense that LE should be focusing their searches and warrants on her activity? I don't think a spur of the moment never-to-return trip seems likely under any scenario.

 

[Deleted member 169742]

There is no logical nor scientific way to tell if someone is a criminal by looking at them.

Admins try hard to make people only discuss facts.

I agree that it’s important to stay open-minded to possibilities leading to other than PF.

Could she have committed suicide? It’s always a possibility with any missing person. I would have never expected the news anchor and Mom of two young children, Jessica Starr, to have (recently) committed suicide.

Could she have chosen to pursue a different life? I’d think of this one last. It is a very rare occurrence.

Could she have another love interest? Yes.

Other perps are definitely possible.

Good analysis

 

[Cherokee]

It is interesting there has been only one photo found or released of KB, PF and K together, and that photo was taken soon after K's birth as a newborn.

That's it.

There is no other publicly-known photo and no other evidence of there being a relationship (such as an extended engagement between KB and PF) other than what was allegedly said by KB to her religious family.

I know not everyone, including myself, posts photos all over the internet on social media. I am not commenting on the lack of KB's photos of K posted online, but where are the photos of KB and PF after K's newborn photo? Where is a photo of K's 1st birthday with KB & PF, if they were engaged? Where is a photo of last Christmas with KB & PF, if they were engaged?

Why is there only one photo of KB, PF & K that keeps being used ad nauseam by the media?

IMHO, there weren't many photos taken of the three of them together. I don't believe K was a planned pregnancy, and I also don't believe KB and PF were actually engaged before or after K's birth. The word fiance' was used to make the situation more palatable to KB's very religious family and to make it seem like K's birth was the result of something more than a short-term physical attraction.

All the speculation in the world does not change the fact this was not a healthy relationship. Whether PF is innocent or guilty, what fiance' (current or former) doesn't talk to the mother of his child for 10 days or report her missing. If PF is innocent, then he and KB had a terrible and very distant relationship. If nothing else, KB would have texted and/or called to check on K. She would have wanted to hear K's voice and K saying "mama," and KB would reassure K she would see her soon. A 15-month-old child understands much more than they can say, and the sudden loss of a parental figure can make them very insecure. KB does not sound like the kind of person who would abandon her baby nor make that baby feel abandoned.

 

[Charlot123]

We don’t know if KB kept the Adventist sabbath anymore...

I am in my 20s and as much as my mother would like to “think” we’re on talking terms. We are not. Why? She gives toxic opinions.

From what I understand, Kelsey was religious, she posted about religion on her Pinboard.

It is true that she might have gone away from the Sabbath without stopping to be religious. But if she did, it would be interesting to know.

My kids tell me about life events only when there is something to tell. I would never give toxic opinions (or at least I hope I don't), I try to repeat what my dad said to me ("make your decisions, you know I'll support you") to my kids. But I know that when they are dating, it almost makes no sense to tell us parents unless they are steady, otherwise, "btw, what happened to that redhead? Oh, nothing? I am sorry, kiddo..." (A redhead is just an example).

Moving together is a big deal. KB and PF were not even close to it. I think they were not a couple, and perhaps never planned to be. Then the phrase that they broke up on 22nd is not true.

Someone should know. On his or her side. Even if they are private people - someone does. And this someone might not be bound by the "active investigation" clause. And if such person exists, heck, think, a young mom is missing. Like all of us, she might be not a perfect, young, new mom. But put yourself in her daughter's tiny shoes. And do what you need to do. Help find her.

 

[zecats]

Authorities complete search on property of missing Colorado mom's fiance

"The search warrant is sealed and authorities would not disclose what led them to investigate Frazee's home and land in the first place."

Something led them there. I consider the excavating equipment to be a bit extravagant for a random search. All imo, of course.

 

[Wsimm]

Thinking out loud here..... Rarely are breakups spontaneous. Usually there’s a “song and dance” leading up to the termination by one or both of the parties. It’s a very thoughtful dance if children are involved. If its true and not rumor that KB and PF broke off their relationship just prior to Thanksgiving and KB was possibly the initiator of this breakup, I’m guessing some serious thought was put into it and for some time? If KB’s main reason for living in CO was PF and PF up to this point in the relationship was doing the majority of the child’s care...there would be a lot of logistics involved (employment, living arrangements, childcare) if she was thinking about moving out of CO, maybe possibly closer to family. A holiday followed by a long weekend could provide apply time for a job interview, housing... ? I believe someone posted on a back thread that there was an airport located in Gooding, ID....were they hiring for a flight instructor? Is traveling through Gooding the quickest route to Sandpoint, ID? Does Sandpoint have an airport and are they hiring? In short or my case long, I have a feeling that this breakup was followed up with a conversation possibly of an out of state move.

 

[Deleted member 169742]

Agreed, not a chance. But simplified down to what we know:

She's not at home, so obviously she left.

Nothing to suggest she was abducted from her home and she did take her purse and phone, so it would appear she left voluntarily.

Her vehicles didn't leave, so what? I would guess most likely she left with someone.

So wouldn't it make sense that LE should be focusing their searches and warrants on her activity? I don't think a spur of the moment never-to-return trip seems likely under any scenario.

That is an excellent analysis

And good advice for LE

If LE believed the crime took place at her townhouse, they would have sealed it.