CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #8

[Gardener1850]

Yes ... there are

KB was never seen at a restaurant that night

So, I have no idea what CB was talking about

The point was ..
She was doing 3 things that evening

Each inconsistent with the others

This is a bigger mystery than the phone text

How do you know she was never seen at a restaurant that night?

Were you with KB?

What 3 things was she doing that are inconsistent?

 

[Beamer15]

Exactly- there is no proof that she has mental illness or drug addiction or any other affliction. She is the victim. So very sad the whole situation.

 

[Jennifer17]

Or worse, they are getting attacked and pummeled on social media and if they are female they are being accused of being PF's mistress and all kinds of other things. It has even happened here on WebSleuths. Even a person that might have been a relative of PF's that joined up to WebSleuths was not only run off but one of the members here doxed them and linked their identity and home address (In my opinion the member that did so should be banned for doing so). There are supposed to be rules around here against attacking other members in an effort to stop them from posting.

So, it seems that the only people that want to hear from people that know PF is to have them say "Yes, absolutely he did it." or "Of all the people I have ever known PF is exactly the kind of guy that would kill someone" and the only thing they want to hear out of PF is a confession. Saying anything else will get them run off of social media and even this site.

I don't understand it. Just because someone knows PF and doesn't think he did anything doesn't mean that PF couldn't have done this. But no one seems to really want to hear from anyone that knows him or about the relationship between PF and Kelsey (if they know) that might just give us a little more insight and a different perspective on what was going on if they don't get attacked right out of the box. Opportunity lost.

That person was not 'run off', but you cannot come on WS and claim that you are family and make accusations against a victim without being a verified family member.

 

[?mysterian?]

Or worse, they are getting attacked and pummeled on social media and if they are female they are being accused of being PF's mistress and all kinds of other things. It has even happened here on WebSleuths. Even a person that might have been a relative of PF's that joined up to WebSleuths was not only run off but one of the members here doxed them and linked their identity and home address (In my opinion the member that did so should be banned for doing so). There are supposed to be rules around here against attacking other members in an effort to stop them from posting.

So, it seems that the only people that want to hear from people that know PF is to have them say "Yes, absolutely he did it." or "Of all the people I have ever known PF is exactly the kind of guy that would kill someone" and the only thing they want to hear out of PF is a confession. Saying anything else will get them run off of social media and even this site.

I don't understand it. Just because someone knows PF and doesn't think he did anything doesn't mean that PF couldn't have done this. But no one seems to really want to hear from anyone that knows him or about the relationship between PF and Kelsey (if they know) that might just give us a little more insight and a different perspective on what was going on if they don't get attacked right out of the box. Opportunity lost.

It would be wonderful to have any insight and information to help find KB and get her home. Best case scenario: KB is ok and she and PF resume their relationship, however they define it. IMO, many posters would welcome the opportunity to have a VI that knows PF that would share insight and information.

 

[Steelhead]

In some families it is tradition to get an Xmas tree the day after Thanksgiving. This could also have been the plan in this case. Maybe KB went to Safeway on T-day to get the cinnamon roll makings and such so they could all have a little treat the next morning before tree-hunting. Is it possible she baked the cinnamon rolls on Nov. 23? And maybe that’s the actual day they “broke up”? Has this already been hashed out?

 

[fannneee]

The way I see it IMO. Is that she did not have plans with anyone else that night. I think she planned on spending it with her baby and the father or maybe with her baby alone. Dinner IMO was to be with him and her baby. I wish I knew what she bought at safeway. I haven't read all the threads - does anyone know what she purchased? Has it come out that she said SHE WASN'T spending it with him? I think something went bad between them later that day. What is his alibi for that afternoon and night? What is it for the following day and night? Or the next day or the next day and night or next or next (see how much time he had?) Did he leave the baby with mom and go off driving? All things I want to know that matter here. Also - just because he handed off his phone means nothing, he could have deleted messages, unless it is backed up on a cloud, they are gone.

All we have to go on is what CB said that KB told her.

 

[cattlekate]

Posters have postulated about searching the immense USDI BLM and USDA FS public lands. Just a few thoughts.

1. Local BLM allowed Christmas tree cuts around Nov 16, and local FS around Nov 26. But those permitted areas are small and any nefarious things would be noticed. The Frazee ranchette had nice looking little pine trees so maybe that’s where she thought they’d go. MOO. But for sure it’s doubtful she was in a permitted area on public land. Obviously, LE has looked up permits by now.

2. Grazing allotments on BLM and FS are tied to large base properties. The Frazee’s 35 acre ranchette is not a large base property, so his cattle and horses were probably fed with hay and silage, along with some grazing on Frazee property. Even though in Florissant it probably takes 35 acres for one cow/calf unit, I doubt PF has any tie to a federal allotment.

3. Anyone who grew up in the area probably knows BLM, FS areas, mines, and water bodies by heart. Many were accessible in late November. A hunter needs to weigh in but I think rifle season was generally over by Nov 22.

However, there are still many recreationists still on federal land. A body laying in the open attracts raptors, corvids, coyotes. If someone was dumping a body it would’ve maybe been noticed by recreationists. A body hastily buried still would have the same issue. A local person would know that and not risk it.

Kelsey could be anywhere. But she’s not on a Christmas tree cut area. Nor is she on any Frazee grazing allotment. And nor is she on the ranchette, as the coroner was not called.

Where is Kelsey? There are so many abandoned mines so I’m wondering if this is sadly going to be a Susan Powell scenario.

 

[Irmese]

PF is a farrier, horse and cattle broker, a dog trainer who raises his own pups. By necessity, he spends a lot of time in barns shoeing horses on his property and the property of others. To make a living, he would have to go out of town.

Many people have made the assumption PF did a lot of the daycare for K. That is a wrong assumption. SF, PF's mother, lives at the same location and she would have been the primary caregiver for when K was in their custody. I'm not saying PF didn't play with K or never give her a bottle, etc. What I want to convey is I believe PF's mother, SF, who helps him run the ranch, is the one who would be K's primary caretaker when KB didn't have her.

Let that sink in.

ITA

 

[Esma]

Her brother said "remaining" rolls were left out which makes it sounds like leftovers. JMO, but if I'm making something to bring to a gathering, I don't usually dig into it first.

Or did he say the rolls remained on the stove Or counter?

 

[Cherokee]

I've known, and hired, farriers who bring their kids with them. It's not unheard of.

Were they 15 months old or younger? Were they so small they were still carried in a car seat?

 

[Irmese]

I've known, and hired, farriers who bring their kids with them. It's not unheard of.

15 month olds?

 

[Deleted member 169742]

Or worse, they are getting attacked and pummeled on social media and if they are female they are being accused of being PF's mistress and all kinds of other things. It has even happened here on WebSleuths. Even a person that might have been a relative of PF's that joined up to WebSleuths was not only run off but one of the members here doxed them and linked their identity and home address (In my opinion the member that did so should be banned for doing so). There are supposed to be rules around here against attacking other members in an effort to stop them from posting.

So, it seems that the only people that want to hear from people that know PF is to have them say "Yes, absolutely he did it." or "Of all the people I have ever known PF is exactly the kind of guy that would kill someone" and the only thing they want to hear out of PF is a confession. Saying anything else will get them run off of social media and even this site.

I don't understand it. Just because someone knows PF and doesn't think he did anything doesn't mean that PF couldn't have done this. But no one seems to really want to hear from anyone that knows him or about the relationship between PF and Kelsey (if they know) that might just give us a little more insight and a different perspective on what was going on if they don't get attacked right out of the box. Opportunity lost.

Well expressed

 

[bellesnwhistles]

I am not all the way caught up yet but from what I know so far this case reminds me so much of the Crystal McDowell (I think that was her name) case.. let's hope there's a better outcome here

 

[Irmese]

That wasn't my point. My point was that he does not have to show the baby in public because otherwise people would be asking where is the baby.

I think he carries the baby around with him so that LE cannot say they are concerned for the child's welfare, which would be easy to do if he left her with his Mom. This way, everyone can see she is ok.

 

[Deleted member 169742]

Posters have postulated about searching the immense USDI BLM and USDA FS public lands. Just a few thoughts.

1. Local BLM allowed Christmas tree cuts around Nov 16, and local FS around Nov 26. But those permitted areas are small and any nefarious things would be noticed. The Frazee ranchette had nice looking little pine trees so maybe that’s where she thought they’d go. MOO. But for sure it’s doubtful she was a permitted area on public land. Obviously, LE has looked up permits by now.

2. Grazing allotments on BLM and FS are tied to large base properties. The Frazee’s 35 acre ranchette is not a large base property, so his cattle and horses were probably fed with hay and silage, along with some grazing on Frazee property. Even though in Florissant it probably takes 35 acres for one cow/calf unit, I doubt PF has any tie to a federal allotment.

3. Anyone who grew up in the area probably knows BLM, FS areas, mines, and water bodies by heart. Many were accessible in late November. A hunter needs to weigh in but I think rifle season was generally over by Nov 22.

However, there are still many recreationists still on federal land. A body laying in the open attracts raptors, corvids, coyotes. If someone was dumping a body it would’ve maybe been noticed by recreationists. A body hastily buried still would have the same issue. A local person would know that and not risk it.

Kelsey could be anywhere. But she’s not on a Christmas tree cut area. Nor is she on any Frazee grazing allotment. And nor is she on the ranchette, as the coroner was not called.

Where is Kelsey? There are so many abandoned mines so I’m wondering if this is sadly going to be a Susan Powell scenario.

Well written

 

[LietKynes]

Speculation about a victim should be based on some known fact, not just tossing out general speculation when there is nothing to substantiate it.

Also, LE has said her disappearance is suspicious, not that they are concerned about her mental health.

SABBM

Re. The bolded bit : I think that's what makes me so nervous for this young woman.....

MOO : Also, iirc, a few threads back in an msm statement; LE officially said they couldn't rule PF (possibly being a future suspect) out .
Makes me think LE are far ahead of us.
They do not think she left of her own volition ; i.e. just leaving her whole life behind , or worse (suicide).
I'm of the opinion she was taken against her will; not sure as to what location.

 

[Cherokee]

I'm just trying to avoid assumptions. Do you have a reason to believe he is out "all day" on other people's property? I understand he has several jobs, one of which would prompt him to travel at least locally. But we don't know if he did six house calls a week or one, in addition to raising livestock and dogs. While you definitely may be right, if one was living with their parent, and made the living off their farm in part, it seems like one could afford to cut back on hours and be more of a stay at home dad when needed too. So just wondering if we had these ideas about his work schedule or week confirmed anywhere that I missed.

That "farm" wasn't making much of a living. In fact, it's not a farm. They don't grow any crops on it. The property is a 35-acre mini-ranch, where PF and his mother had horses, a few head of cattle and some herding dogs. PF's main job is that of a farrier, which necessitates him going to other people's property to shoe and trim their horses hooves or travel to stock shows and anywhere else horse people congregate to get business.

I don't know why this is so controversial. My point was when PF had custody of K (when KB was working or otherwise) PF's mother would have been the main one in the house with the baby who then became a toddler.

I've seen several posters go on about how PF took care of K, as if he was her only caretaker when she was in his custody. That is an incorrect assumption. And incorrect assumptions are limiting by nature.

 

[Irmese]

CB, on the CBS interview mentioned the restaurant

There are almost none between KB and PF

Fewer that are homestyle cooking and open for Thanksgiving

Fewer that were actually open

How do you know they didn't get Chinese when they went out? Here are some restaurants in Woodland Park:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chi...m1!1e3!2m1!1e16!3sCgIIASABKgJVUw,lf:1,lf_ui:9

 

[LietKynes]

All we have to go on is what CB said that KB told her.

Agreed.
All information we have to go on is so 'roundabout'..... crazy, and not the most reliable .

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Would we even know if the Safeway footage showed him entering after her and then leaving together proving that he was with her but LE only released the footage that shows her entering, to make him slip up saying she dropped the baby off to him when they knew all along he was at Safeway with her? MOO.. I’m pretty much grasping at straws now. They must have had something to make them start digging, maybe his phone pinged where Kelsey’s did? Or there’s footage of him on his way to where the phone pinged?

I wondered about this possibility too.