CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #8

[PommyMommy]

Horse people are an interesting bunch

Some swear by a western saddle ... some won't use it even on a trail ride

Everybody has a feeding routine "that is the best"

Some sweet talk horses ... some break hard ... some yell ... some cuss ... some hit them

Stables and rodeo are always the scene for crazy events.

I guess, if it was not highly risky ... nobody would do it.

It is the nature of the operation.

Just think about steer roping

The equipment... is significant

Even the best have bad things happen.

I read nothing into the comments about PFs horse skills.

If he was crazy and abusive ... his operation would have failed years ago

Oh no. There is never a reason to abuse an animal. If he can't control a horse without hitting it he shouldn't be anywhere near one.
MOO

 

[ReadySet]

For me, it's not just the two situations you referenced in DM (which I also consider a tabloid) that I'm using to draw conclusions.
It's a pattern of behavior. I'm adding in what it says in DM to what we already know, weighing it all, using my own good judgement and life experience, and my conclusion is that PF, at the least, is a person of poor character. And when a missing women's prior or current SO has poor character, it's important. JMO

Even statements on "MSM" can be wrong, intentionally or not, as we've seen many times, so I'm confused here as to why the input about his supposed cheating is being considered golden.

First, I didn't think the UK Daily Mail was considered a legit source of info. Thought it was analagous to our NY Post. Please let me know if that is now a legit news source! I thought it was a tabloid. Most sites as the result of a Google search say it's a tabloid.

Second, here's the quote from it regarding his supposed cheating: "A former girlfriend who dated Frazee more than six years ago declined to speak to DailyMail.com but her current partner said: 'He cheated on her while she was in the hospital, take that for what it's worth.'" So a current partner of a supposed ex girlfriend is telling a UK paper PF cheated on his current girlfriend at the time. Do we know more details? Maybe she made this up. Maybe they had broken up or were about to. I could think of 10 other scenarios. Just making a comment here that people are jumping on this that he must be evil between this and the horse abuse, and NO I am not "in his camp" whatsoever, but let's take a step back. Anyone can say anything to any news source or friend or social media account...

 

[gitana1]

Did you think a mom missing for a month without a trace would ever be 'good'?

Voluntary missing or missing due to something like dissociative fugue, but she's found wandering or homeless or in a hospital, that would be "good" compared to what most of us believe the outcome is going to be.

 

[gitana1]

Well, we do know that his behavior cost him atleast one potential client.

“But Michell Guterl, 50, who has known Frazee since he was 16, said she refused to let him work on his horses because of how he handled them.”

Yes. And according to KB's mom, they weren't getting married yet because they couldn't afford it?

 

[Deleted member 169742]

With all respect, I disagree.

People who treat their horses harshly speak volumes of both their ability as horsemen...as well as about their own humanity.

I fired a blacksmith for going after a horse with the rasp....well beyond a correction - a beating. Not on my watch.

I have owned and shown horses for more than 40 years, and I've seen a lot. But whenever I see someone rip their horse's head off...I know they are a failure - in the barn and in life.

Hard work. Patience. Discipline. Lather, rinse, and repeat.

Losing your temper because you can't figure out how to fix a problem is an advertisement of one's lack of ability.

And poor behavior tends to bleed into other areas, so not a stretch to think if he was rough with his horses....

Also, he sure is sounding like a spoiled brat that could use a well-placed kick in the a**.

Exactly

But you have observed the good and the bad ... and have decided what is good and bad.

Others will disagree, much like politics

I have observed what one person calls "losing their temper" another calls it "being firm"

I too have observed some of the best horsemen, behaving in the worst way and some of the worst behaving in the best way.

I simply pray the Lord loves on me, counsels me on humility, stops me from judging others and provides the best hay crop Angel's can deliver.

I will not sit in judgement on how another trains their horses.

But will protect mine ... to my best ability and judgement.

 

[NanZDrew]

With all respect, I disagree.

People who treat their horses harshly speak volumes of both their ability as horsemen...as well as about their own humanity.

I fired a blacksmith for going after a horse with the rasp....well beyond a correction - a beating. Not on my watch.

I have owned and shown horses for more than 40 years, and I've seen a lot. But whenever I see someone rip their horse's head off...I know they are a failure - in the barn and in life.

Hard work. Patience. Discipline. Lather, rinse, and repeat.

Losing your temper because you can't figure out how to fix a problem is an advertisement of one's lack of ability.

And poor behavior tends to bleed into other areas, so not a stretch to think if he was rough with his horses....

Also, he sure is sounding like a spoiled brat that could use a well-placed kick in the a**.

I fall into the sweet talking group. Horses are prey animals. Their first instinct is to run or protect themselves which can mean kicking. Once someone's horse had gotten out of its pasture just outside of Dallas. A police officer was chasing it. The horse was terrified. I was really afraid it was going to get into traffic. I stopped and asked the police officer if he would let me try to catch the horse. The officer was out of breath so he agreed. The horse was standing there and I started talking quietly to him and walking slowly up to him. He stood there as I talked to him and a walked slowly up to him and softly touched him. He didn't bolt. He was wearing a halter so I reached up and took hold of the halter and led him back where he belonged. The poor creature was just afraid. Most horses will try to please you if you are kind to them. That is probably not true of a horse that has always been beat, but my horses are like giant dogs.

 

[Kapua]

I should add that if she did willingly leave Colorado, she probably didn’t intend to be gone for so long. Something had to have happened to her for her not to return to her daughter. But you’re right, she may have never left Colorado. But her phone definitely did. MOO

I don't think she left Colorado. MOO.

 

[Lhughessk]

With all respect, I disagree.

People who treat their horses harshly speak volumes of both their ability as horsemen...as well as about their own humanity.

I fired a blacksmith for going after a horse with the rasp....well beyond a correction - a beating. Not on my watch.

I have owned and shown horses for more than 40 years, and I've seen a lot. But whenever I see someone rip their horse's head off...I know they are a failure - in the barn and in life.

Hard work. Patience. Discipline. Lather, rinse, and repeat.

Losing your temper because you can't figure out how to fix a problem is an advertisement of one's lack of ability.

And poor behavior tends to bleed into other areas, so not a stretch to think if he was rough with his horses....

Also, he sure is sounding like a spoiled brat that could use a well-placed kick in the a**.

This certainly applies to my ex. He was a wonderful dancer, and that’s what hooked me. But I’ll never forget being at a rodeo and his horse didn’t obey him so he beat that horse like he was going to kill it. I yelled at him to stop, went into the ring to stop him. He picked me up and forcibly carried me to the truck, and no one did a thing. I divorced him years later because there was nothing good about him other than the ability to Two Step.

 

[Snow Flower]

After reading that PF spends a lot of time with KB, so much so that the neighbor thought he was living there, I am even more perplexed at PFs behavior. They were obviously practically living together. Why would he not be frantically searching for her and doing what her mom did? For me that’s unacceptable behavior from a man living with the mother of his child. This makes him look so guilty JMO

 

[gitana1]

Oh no. There is never a reason to abuse an animal. If he can't control a horse without hitting it he shouldn't be anywhere near one.
MOO

Yeah that's just ridiculous. Going all the way back to Owen Wister's, The Virginian, considered the first, classic American western, discussion about how to deal with horses and the nature of creeps that mandhandle them, has been known in this country.

Animal abuse says everything about a person's character and propensity for violence against humans that I need to know. This isn't about culture. It's about evil.

 

[Deleted member 169742]

What’s the point of commenting on her looks? Is it somehow more tragic?

No ... it simply more human ... and respectful.

KB placed effort in her photography work to achieve striking resonance with viewers.

I am just recognizing her, in a manner that appears to be how she portrays herself.

 

[LAHOLLA]

Exactly

But you have observed the good and the bad ... and have decided what is good and bad.

Others will disagree, much like politics

I have observed what one person calls "losing their temper" another calls it "being firm"

I too have observed some of the best horsemen, behaving in the worst way and some of the worst behaving in the best way.

I simply pray the Lord loves on me, counsels me on humility, stops me from judging others and provides the best hay crop Angel's can deliver.

I will not sit in judgement on how another trains their horses.

But will protect mine ... to my best ability and judgement.

There are people who beat their children bc the Bible says, “spare the rod”. I’m going to judge those people just like I’m going to judge someone who beats an animal even if they opt to call it “firm”.

 

[MassGuy]

Exactly

But you have observed the good and the bad ... and have decided what is good and bad.

Others will disagree, much like politics

I have observed what one person calls "losing their temper" another calls it "being firm"

I too have observed some of the best horsemen, behaving in the worst way and some of the worst behaving in the best way.

I simply pray the Lord loves on me, counsels me on humility, stops me from judging others and provides the best hay crop Angel's can deliver.

I will not sit in judgement on how another trains their horses.

But will protect mine ... to my best ability and judgement.

Being “firm” with an animal, is different from angrily lashing out at an animal.

It appears that PF exhibited both, the latter being the most concerning.

If you lose your cool with an animal, it’s not a stretch to assume that this type of behavior can carry over to other parts of your life.

Like relationships.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I fall into the sweet talking group. Horses are prey animals. Their first instinct is to run or protect themselves which can mean kicking. Once someone's horse had gotten out of its pasture just outside of Dallas. A police officer was chasing it. The horse was terrified. I was really afraid it was going to get into traffic. I stopped and asked the police officer if he would let me try to catch the horse. The officer was out of breath so he agreed. The horse was standing there and I started talking quietly to him and walking slowly up to him. He stood there as I talked to him and a walked slowly up to him and softly touched him. He didn't bolt. He was wearing a halter so I reached up and took hold of the halter and led him back where he belonged. The poor creature was just afraid. Most horses will try to please you if you are kind to them. That is probably not true of a horse that has always been beat, but my horses are like giant dogs.

This is so true. We have horses and mules - a gentle hand, trust and love is all it takes.

 

[Jennifer17]

Oh no. There is never a reason to abuse an animal. If he can't control a horse without hitting it he shouldn't be anywhere near one.
MOO

But he apparently was not hitting it to train it. He was hitting it in anger because it had not performed as well as he expected it to.

 

[Deleted member 169742]

Being “firm” with an animal, is different from angrily lashing out at an animal.

It appears that PF exhibited both, the latter being the most concerning.

If you lose your cool with an animal, it’s not a stretch to assume that this type of behavior can carry over to other parts of your life.

Like relationships.

That may be true

I just have not observed it

 

[katie565]

Exactly

But you have observed the good and the bad ... and have decided what is good and bad.

Others will disagree, much like politics

I have observed what one person calls "losing their temper" another calls it "being firm"

I too have observed some of the best horsemen, behaving in the worst way and some of the worst behaving in the best way.

I simply pray the Lord loves on me, counsels me on humility, stops me from judging others and provides the best hay crop Angel's can deliver.

I will not sit in judgement on how another trains their horses.

But will protect mine ... to my best ability and judgement.

I’ll sit in judgment and there is NO excuse to abuse an animal. NONE. Since my life is dedicated to rescuing and saving abused animals, my feelings about it are as strong as they can get. But, feelings aside, abuse of animals is a strong indicator of abuse towards humans. That’s a FACT, not a feeling.

Abusive, can’t control his temper, never left his mommy’s house - I have a very clear picture of who this “man” is and I hope cause can be found to get his daughter to a safe place ASAP. I could just throw up after reading that article.

 

[LAHOLLA]

If he is abusive to animals like has been stated, this is what it says to me- he uses force to handle conflict vs being thoughtful in his response. I just tend to believe that people who default to force arent picking and choosing who they use force with.

 

[Queasy Gumshoe]

Dig a little into her history. Whew! Not that he is o.k., but she is something else.

Wait, sorry. I am totally confused. Who is this Michelle person? and her connection? Again sorry if I am asking something that has been discussed a million times.

 

[cluciano63]

I think her looks are important only in that people do tend to remember seeing pretty women more than they might other people they pass by chance, it is just they way it is.