CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #8

[susiQ]

There are ways to slow his departure, but I think they would have to reveal what they have ... placing the investigation into jeopardy... possibly corrupting it, so he could not be convicted.

And if they had nothing ... he could start a new life ... instead of waiting

Well, the Wagners of Ohio left for Alaska thinking they were "scott free". The murders were very well planned. Investigators suspected they had something to do with the Rhoden family massacre. 2 1/2 years later they were arrested.

At this point, finding Kelsey alive would be a miracle. I hope the wheels of justice turn faster for Kelsey. If PF didn't do it, why, oh why won't he allow himself to be ruled out and let the investigators move on? I think he knows they have something, but maybe not enough....yet.

 

[missy1974]

So, if the neighbor is correct, that means that PF didn't sit in the truck waiting for KB to run the baby out to him. He went inside the house, we just don't know how long he was in there.

I don't know if I want to assume anything. Not knowing where the neighbor lives, what viewpoint the neighbor has, maybe they couldn't see the front of the truck or the drivers seat? Maybe he was waiting for her to get home from Safeway? Maybe he had just put the baby in the truck but hadn't driven off yet? Maybe he was at the door getting baby at the moment the neighbor noticed? We have no information from neighbor about how long the truck was there, neighbor doesn't say that the truck was there for 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 30 minutes, just that it was noticed. No more information about the circumstances surrounding why the neighbor remembers seeing it either, was it because someone came to the door? was it because they were leaving their own house? To many questions!!!

 

[Lhughessk]

Chris Watts had a dog that seemed very well taken care of and he sure didn't put any videos on Youtube showing his dogs were terrified of him. PF did and that's pretty damning evidence.

Cruelty to animals is a reflection of one's lack of character and empathy. PF sure doesn't seem concerned that his little girl is missing her Mommy.

I think the irony will be that in the Watts case, he cooperated, he confessed and the death penalty was taken off the table. I think this case will be just the opposite and I'm okay with that. JMO

The death penalty is irrelevant in Colorado. Only one inmate has been executed in the last 41 years.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Haven't we seen stand up good guys, husbands, dads and dog owners, who were verified criminals, and quite recently? Chris Watts.

As to PF, there are things in his handling of KB's disappearance that raise deep concern. But I refuse to rely, in my assessment of the situation, on P's qualities in other areas of life. Cruelty to animals - if proven - is very concerning per se. But the only evidence to it is an odd tweet. Cheating on an ex? And her current BF being PF's character witness? Give me a break.

I'm not sure why you would quote my post on a completely different thread and state that CW is a stand up good guy, husband, dad and dog owner who was a verified criminal.
FWIW - I never once said CW was any of that.

 

[GoJacks]

You guys...she had lots of neighbors. It was a possibility one neighbor was gone for thanksgiving and one neighbor wasn't. Let me repost the aerial photo of her property.

 

[MyBelle]

A 32 year old guy with financial problems, who lives with his mother, ain’t no prize in my book.

It’s amazing he was able to attract Kelsey.

If they met online, he wouldn't have shared his financial problems and would have downplayed living with his mother. All abusers start off as charming as can be. Once they gain control, they drop the facade. JMO

 

[Irmese]

A 32 year old guy with financial problems, who lives with his mother, ain’t no prize in my book.

It’s amazing he was able to attract Kelsey.

He probably presented the mini-ranch as his, she saw he had multiple irons in the fire to bring in an income and he otherwise put his best foot forward when they met. She probably began to notice the warts on her prince a little late. MOO.

 

[KSinMT]

This has since been clarified, yet again LOL

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Replying to @SusanTroscinski @gigglingtoes and
I apologize for the confusion. She has seen a man driving the truck dropping off & picking up a baby over the last two years. She saw the truck again Thanksgiving Day, but on that day, she didn’t see anyone. Does that clear it up?

OK, so the neighbor DID see the truck, they just can't say for sure PF was the one driving it.

 

[allboys]

I sure wish we knew what she bought at the store and if she got groceries/household items, were they put away? Or was PF already there waiting when she got home from the store and she just hopped in the truck with him and the baby and left?

Or if she bought something like diapers and Cheerios or Gerber Puffs (baby road trip food)...it would make me think she had planned to take baby out of town, but when she got home...she was stopped.

Sorry. Pure speculation. Active imagination now after hearing when he arrived at KB’s and learning about his temperament...

 

[Deleted member 169742]

You guys...she had lots of neighbors. It was a possibility one neighbor was gone for thanksgiving and one neighbor wasn't. Let me repost the aerial photo of her property.

Thank you!

 

[PommyMommy]

I've missed this info somehow. Can anyone link the article? @PommyMommy ?

I haven't seen that in MSM.
MOO

 

[Jethro4WS]

Very fast moving threads. Just marking to try to keep up.
I do have a question. How is it PF does not have to talk to LE and LE can't make him talk to them?

5th Amendment of the United States Constitution.

 

[katie565]

I think that he competes in Rodeos away from home.

Hmmm. Maybe he could hop on a horse and head for Mexico. He’d need mommy though.

 

[Mom24]

I guess it's a different neighbor. So far nothing about this case has been clear and easy to understand.

Just to clear it up- the neighbor saw the truck for the past couple of years (15 months is more than a year, so she's saying this year and last-hence a couple of years). I'm guessing that's to establish that she knows what PF's truck looks like
Then she stated she saw his truck on Thanksgiving Day between 12:30pm and 1pm, but that she didn't see him on Thanksgiving. In other words, she saw his vehicle, but didn't see his body or face. She only saw his vehicle, not his personal human body.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Not that I really want to defend 2trustworthy given his or her comments about Kelsey’s attractiveness. But the comments you take exception to don’t seem much different from you suggesting that PF borrowed a friend’s vehicle. Given the limited info, speculation is really all we have, so we should all give each other some grace IMHO.

I don't paint my comments as fact or inside info, but speculation ie. could have, perhaps, maybe.

 

[zecats]

Well, the Wagners of Ohio left for Alaska thinking they were "scott free". The murders were very well planned. Investigators suspected they had something to do with the Rhoden family massacre. 2 1/2 years later they were arrested.

At this point, finding Kelsey alive would be a miracle. I hope the wheels of justice turn faster for Kelsey. If PF didn't do it, why, oh why won't he allow himself to be ruled out and let the investigators move on? I think he knows they have something, but maybe not enough....yet.

Oh yes why not indeed? I would think he'd be frantic with worry that she hasn't returned yet from the "trip" he said/she said she was going to take. Wouldn't he be worried to pieces about the mother of his little girl regardless of their romantic or non-romantic relationship? Why isn't he doing everything possible to help find her or find out what happened to her? If he's not involved in that, he should be front and center cooperating. I think I can guess why he's not helping. jmo

 

[katie565]

2.5 years old if you’re talking about the Bobby Cutts murder case.

“Mommy’s crying. Mommy broke the table. Mommy’s in the rug.”

Yes, that’s the case. Breaks my heart in to a million pieces

 

[MyBelle]

The child could very well have been a witness, but obviously the child could not testify.

Why is there so much discussion about "control" freaks? Training dogs does not make someone a "controlling" person any more than teaching means that all teachers are control freaks.

Training dogs usually doesn't involve terrorizing them.
Domestic violence is all about manipulation and control. JMO

 

[BRRI]

Has anyone asked where her friends are? For 10 days she was missing, through Thanksgiving, and no one other than her mother noticed her missing.

Control freaks start with isolating a girlfriend from her friends and family. This probably takes about 6 months. Next step is break down of her confidence and self-esteem. Intelligent control freaks prefer to do this to more accomplished, intelligent women. They are the kind of man who would joke that it's more fun to convict the innocent. They leave psychological scars rather than bruises.

Although I can't say for sure, I do wonder if controlling men have serious issues with their mothers or if they were just born that way.

As a pilot who trained military, she was obviously very intelligent. Question is, why was she looking elsewhere for a partner?

Agree and makes sense.

This is why I don't think she ever made it home after the trip to the Safeway.

Or she left willingly with him, to get a tree, go to his house to eat, etc, and something happened from there

Or, PF is innocent. There is still that possibility.

 

[Snow Flower]

I am wondering if they got into a fight and he hit her so hard he killed her instantly, or God forbid he pulled a CW and strangled her. I say these things, just thinking out loud, because they obviously found no blood. Of course he had 10 days to clean things up. OTOH he might have taken her to cut down a tree. It could have happened away from her place or his. Her place is a townhouse with close neighbors not easy to carry a body out there. At his place he had his mother. I would be so shocked at this point if it’s anyone but him responsible. Of course, there is always the “Gone Girl” scenario. I would prefer that, at least she would still be alive.

 

[Jennifer17]

Yeah. That’s bothersome for sure.

I’m also bothered by the possibility that we will never have an answer here.

It’s early yet, so I’m still very hopeful. But this is the type of crime (if this is one) that people do get away with.

The possibility that she did run away, however remote.

No body.

No crime scene.

The fact that he covered his butt early (lawyer).

Suspicion ain’t enough.

A recent case in Australia, like this, where a woman disappeared, had the husband charged 18 months after the disappearance. Her body was found, dumped and concealed in bush 6 months after she went missing. LE never let the pressure off him, though. They had impounded her car and did test runs of it right where he could see them.