CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #9

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  • #481
Welcome Mountainman. You make some good observations. I'm one of those people who didn't have a smartphone 4.5 years ago. Were it not for my reading all about them here I might not think to power the phone off or know about special apps you can get to send messages days later. The first time I got on an airplane with my new phone I needed the flight attendant's help to power it off, Lol. However, I have the internet at home and have since the 1990's. Before smart phones, I would have searched online for info about them. Or simply ask my LE brother about it if I were PF.

The one caveat to this way of thinking, however, is that we are assuming KB's phone was a smart phone and PF still didn't have one. I don't think we know what kind of phones they have. In my case, I finally got a smart phone because it's easier to communicate with my husband who has to have one for his job. It made sense for us both to have the same thing and we got a deal (buy one get one free with new contract). I can see PF getting a smart phone 2 years ago in order to keep better contact with Kelsey-- especially since she commuted so far to work and was always flying. And smart phone plans have come down quite a bit in recent years. "Burner" smart phones with no contract are also much cheaper and more common these days than 4 years ago (or so I have been lead to believe from reading on Websleuths ;) )

Good point. She herself could have had a flip phone. I do know it was said on the official missing page that she didn’t use Facebook much, so maybe she wasn’t much in to technology either
 
  • #482
Dogs aren't livestock.
Of course they are not. They also are not part of our country's restaurant fare as they are in other countries. My cousin is a veterinarian educator and he and his wife have taken in retired service animals. K-9's aren't killed when they retire. JMO
 
  • #483
Interesting that it was a "convoy" I did see at least 4 SUVs and that seems like a large number for a follow up visit.
It does. They had a purpose, and it wasn’t to have a chat with him.
 
  • #484
Any theory that attempts to explain what happened to Kelsey has to account for the ping from her phone in Gooding ID. If this were a Hitchcock film that ping would be the plot twist that the entire story hinged on.

If that ping did not exist then it would be simpler to theorize reasons for her absence. But her phone appearing briefly 800 miles and 3 days after her last confirmed sighting creates a specific fact that needs to fit into any accurate theory. Not just fit in, but IMHO explaining that ping explains the entire story.

The ping from Gooding fits well with the early Facebook post from her Aunt that "She broke up with her ex on Thanksgiving, he said she dropped off the baby and was heading to Soap Lake Washington to visit.” Taken at face value that statement means it was PF who reported to her family that she was heading to Soap Lake. I believe that the Aunt later retracted or deleted that Facebook post.

Gooding is roughly 60% of the way between Woodland Park and Soap Lake. Gooding is a completely plausible location for her phone to ping if she was indeed traveling to Soap Lake. It is also a completely plausible location for her phone to ping if someone wants to create the illusion she was traveling to Soap Lake.

How can that ping be explained?

KB has phone (#1): Maybe Kelsey did indeed decide spontaneously to head to Washington without giving her family advance notice. PF's story about her leaving is basically true. Whatever the cause of her disappearance therefore is something unexpected that happens along the way. This theory raises a set of questions that are without answers:
  • Her known vehicles are accounted for so how is she traveling?
  • Why leave child her child behind?
  • Why doesn't she tell her family she is coming either at the onset of travel or when sending the two text messages?
KB has phone (#2): Maybe Kelsey was indeed heading west but not to Washington. She tells PF that Soap Lake is her destination to conceal some truth from him, perhaps even that she willingly wants to disappear. This has the same problems as the above theory plus creates a new mystery around her true intent.

PF has phone: Some here believe that PF must be behind KB's disappearance. An obvious extension of this belief is that PF must be responsible for creating the ping, likely as a red herring to distract from the truth. The question therefore is could he have transported her phone to Gooding and arrived back in Florissant while producing an alibi for his location and maintaining care for the child in his custody? Assuming no stops it is roughly 24 hours of round-trip driving from his home to Gooding and back. So questions that come from this theory are:
  • Could he have driven 1600 miles round-trip, pay cash along the way for any need gas or food, and not be remembered or be caught on video?
  • What alibi has he produced for his time from the 22nd to the 26th and who corroborates that alibi?
Other theories I consider less likely:

PF accomplice has phone: This suggests a conspiracy between PF and some other party to create this ping, wherein PF stays home and cares for his daughter while his accomplice (for motivation unknown) transports the phone to Gooding. But who then is this co-conspirator to what now seems a complex premeditated criminal conspiracy?

A robo-phone: Several other posters here have theorized various scenarios of apps that send time-delayed texts, ways of turning on a phone remotely, shipping the phone in a package, putting the phone on a west-bound truck, etc. These all seem like very implausible Rube Goldberg solutions to me, which involve many possible risks that the message would not be sent at all. If creating a ping from Southern Idaho was critical to someone attempting to conceal the truth then taking the phone there personally or using an accomplice seem far more reliable.

All five of the above theories imply either that Kelsey told PF she was heading to Soap Lake or that PF invented the story that Kelsey was heading to Soap Lake. There is, however, another possibility.

An abductor has her phone (and possibly KB): PF may indeed have received a message stating that Kelsey was heading to Soap Lake, but it was sent by an abductor who knew enough about KB and her work and relationship with PF to craft messages that would avert suspicions for several days.

I'm sure there are some known facts that don't fit one or more of the above theories and can be used to rule some of them out. But I strongly believe that once the ping from Gooding is understood, then the rest of the story will fall into place.
RBBM and didn't want to snip out any of your points. For your theory #1, I question
1) Why her phone did not ping anywhere else along the way or anytime from Thanksgiving afternoon until whatever time those texts were sent. At least I don't recall any info regarding this.

2) Why send texts to those specific destinations (work and PF) if actually going to visit home. Allegedly and according to PF, she already told him she was going to visit family. Why need another text to him?

3) And why is she still on the road 3 days later? (only 2/3 of the way to Soap Lake). Where has she between 11/22 and 11/25?
 
  • #485
According to this reporter, today’s follow-up search at PF’s property, was unusual.

”I just got off the phone with an experienced investigator. He says following up a couple days after serving a search warrant is *not* routine.” #KelseyBerreth

Sam Kraemer on Twitter

ETA: We don’t know if it was a “search,” but a convoy of law enforcement vehicles was seen leaving his property.

WOW. Interesting.
 
  • #486
Purely IMO but to have that many vehicles if it was a “routine” follow up seems odd.
 
  • #487
We bred and trained Border Collies on our sheep ranch for about 20 years. BCs want to please and they are extremely sensitive dogs. I don't think PF's dogs seemed frightened or abused. I didn't like that they bit at the cattle, though. That could be from the anxiety of wanting to please their owner/handlers. I suspect he didn't spend as much time in training his pups as he should have and they got overly excited when he did work with them.
 
  • #488
ITA. I think KB made more money than PF and the big reason she didn't let him move in with her. I also think the reason he lived with his mother wasn't so he could provide care for her; it was because he couldn't afford to live anywhere else.
JMO

MB, ITA. I can think of several potential ways in which money may play a part in KB's disappearance:
  • Income disparity can be a real source of friction w/ some couples, especially when the female is significantly out-earning the male. IMO, PF may very well be the type of male for whom this earning discrepancy would both rankle and threaten his self-concept re: his "manhood." (Insert gag reflex).
  • KB may have realized that she was bringing significantly more to that relationship in more ways than one, including financially. She may have decided PF was not the proverbial wagon with which she wished her star to be hitched. MOO, it is more likely that KB would have ended that relationship than PF.
  • IMO, if PF was not honoring agreed-upon informal child support arrangements, there may have been some discussion of taking it through legal channels.
All of this is speculation and JMO.
 
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  • #489
Oh man, your post created a new question for me. I hadn't considered that her phone may have been locked. I have face ID and a passcode on my iphone, my old iphone had fingerprint recognition. If her phone had a lock, whoever unlocked her phone - presumably the day they sent texts - would have had to have known her code or had access to her?
I have an older model Android smartphone. I never lock it.
 
  • #490
Welcome Mountainman. You make some good observations. I'm one of those people who didn't have a smartphone 4.5 years ago. Were it not for my reading all about them here I might not think to power the phone off or know about special apps you can get to send messages days later. The first time I got on an airplane with my new phone I needed the flight attendant's help to power it off, Lol. However, I have the internet at home and have since the 1990's. Before smart phones, I would have searched online for info about them. Or simply ask my LE brother about it if I were PF.

The one caveat to this way of thinking, however, is that we are assuming KB's phone was a smart phone and PF still didn't have one. I don't think we know what kind of phones they have. In my case, I finally got a smart phone because it's easier to communicate with my husband who has to have one for his job. It made sense for us both to have the same thing and we got a deal (buy one get one free with new contract). I can see PF getting a smart phone 2 years ago in order to keep better contact with Kelsey-- especially since she commuted so far to work and was always flying. And smart phone plans have come down quite a bit in recent years. "Burner" smart phones with no contract are also much cheaper and more common these days than 4 years ago (or so I have been lead to believe from reading on Websleuths ;) )

One thing is, people don't travel far to buy their smartphones. If you buy warranty or something malfunctions fast, it is easier to go to "your" AT@T or Verizon for help.

By the same token, it is difficult to travel with two cellphones being off. You either use the Navigator, or Google maps, but something one should use. Unless the area is super well known to you. But in an unknown state, people rely on technology.

So either KB's phone was used to navigate (possible), or another cellphone should have pinged close to hers at a certain point, or even if people use old GPS devices, they still can be traced.

Charging phone is not a problem, there are car chargers. Most iphones have the same port, as to 'Droids, they are different, but in the latest ones, you can use a computer charger, too.

I would be interested if FP and KB used the same phone carrier. If it is AT@T, with tons of towers, it is easier. If it is T-mobile, it might be more difficult to trace.

KB moved from another state, she might have carried her old phone service from there. I suspect PF used the most prevalent local one, and shopped close to home. If he bought a new phone in preparation, it should have been done somewhere in state, as a stranger in Wisconsin would be remembered.
 
  • #491
  • #492
Interesting that it was a "convoy" I did see at least 4 SUVs and that seems like a large number for a follow up visit.

Wow, that is good news. They are definitely on to him and probably have a lot more info than we know about. 5 vehicles. I would guess the rope is tightening..
 
  • #493
My apologies in advance as I assume this has been discussed in a previous thread, but I can not keep up with this case. I took one day off and came back to two new threads and one with 14 new pages.

Do we know it is a fact that either of them confirmed a break up. I see it mentioned that Kelseys Aunt confirmed it, but I was following the thread where this was asked and if she could verify this, and I never saw her verify the information. I spent time this morning searching for her messages, and I am either inept (a big possibility) or she is no longer on the board and her messages are deleted.
If the break up is a confirmed event that changes the way I look at this case.

That also makes it far more reasonable that KB left on an unexplained soul searching trip without alerting family. There are many places that one can go missing in Idaho when a car goes off the road.
I was just west of Gooding this weekend, and can confirm that my cell lost service within 15 miles of turning off the freeway. No towers and no pings, as I ventured nearly a full day over literally hundreds of miles.

But why didn't she take either of the 2 vehicles she owns?
 
  • #494
  • #495
Without their child. Right.

Hey, I think it is weak but if it was his mom he was telling or brother- maybe grandma is sick and she needs to focus all of her attention on grandma. Who knows what lies can be made up. If you want to believe them, you will.
 
  • #496
I have an older model Android smartphone. I never lock it.

I have a new one and I lock it, but think of this. If you turn it on, you can not use a finger, they demand a password. Which might be easier. The plane she flew? Her daughter's name +123!? People are not that inventive. It is enough for her to say, "I love this plane, it was the first model I flew, I have pictures of it, I even have custom plates", 80% you know what letters would be in the code. But most likely, she used the same for her phone and email, and PF knew what it was.
 
  • #497
Definitely not tea and crumpets.

And 5 vehicles, doesn't that suggest back up if things go badly. I guess it could mean other things like putting pressure on him. It is intimidating to have that many LE show up. It would be unnerving. It is also sending a message to the community and media without anything having to be said.
 
  • #498
This is a well trained dog from a good trainer.
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Thanks! I notice he says he is training the dogs to be working dogs but they would be companion dogs at some point. The dog in the video stays a good distance away from the cows.
 
  • #499
And 5 vehicles, doesn't that suggest back up if things go badly. I guess it could mean other things like putting pressure on him. It is intimidating to have that many LE show up. It would be unnerving. It is also sending a message to the community and media without anything having to be said.
It wouldn’t just be an effort to send a message, although that would be an effect of it.

They had a purpose, and I hope it leads to something.
 
  • #500
I have a new one and I lock it, but think of this. If you turn it on, you can not use a finger, they demand a password. Which might be easier. The plane she flew? Her daughter's name +123!? People are not that inventive. It is enough for her to say, "I love this plane, it was the first model I flew, I have pictures of it, I even have custom plates", 80% you know what letters would be in the code. But most likely, she used the same for her phone and email, and PF knew what it was.
I'm pretty inventive when it comes to passwords. I just don't have or want to have one for my phone.
 
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