CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #9

[Madison418]

The second crime scene is always more violent than the first one.

Being raised by a police officer this was something my sister's and I knew well. Do not ever let an abductor take you anywhere, you fight like hell, scream, whatever you need to do

 

[Esma]

I’ve switched camps. After reviewing everything over and over, the only logical conclusion I can see is that he is guilty. I do believe there was discontent in their relationship. I believe they were fighting that day. She may have even said she was breaking up with him. The only part he didn’t disclose is, we broke up, so I killed her.

 

[Bayareamom]

My apologies for asking the following if it's already been asked/answered as I've not had time to review all these threads (this thread is moving quickly!) -- Is it possible that Kelsey made a quick stop at the Safeway store to pick up a few items for her fiancé before she dropped off the baby at his place (assuming she DID drop the baby off at his place rather than him picking up the baby at Kelsey's)? I was trying to figure out how in the world her car(s) would have been left at her home prior to her disappearance, and the thought occurred to me that perhaps SHE dropped off the baby to his place, rather than the other way around which is what I originally thought had occurred. If this is a possibility, it might be possible that he told her in advance that he was out of a few things for the baby, i.e., diapers, formula, or what have you, and Kelsey then told him she'd pick up a few items for him prior to dropping off the baby.

So -- if she drops off the baby at his place, drives back home, this would explain why her car was at her place at the time of her disappearance. Her keys and purse WERE missing, correct? SO she either took a Lyft, uber or what have you, OR someone else obviously picked her up and she's not been seen since. I've been scratching my head, wondering on earth LE have not been more forceful/forthcoming in pressing Frazee to speak w/them, but perhaps (who knows) LE feels that someone else did pick up Kelsey, but they also may feel that he knows something and just isn't being more forthcoming.

Again - apologies if the above has already been bandied about. Was just trying to put some pieces of this puzzle together this morning and it's what I've been wondering. My heart goes out to Kelsey's family. I hope they find her soon.

 

[gitana1]

This. All this. Those are WORKING dogs, not your pet on the sofa. A working bred Border Collie will destroy a house out of boredom.

Was that pet training? No.

Was that pretty standard cattle dog training? Actually, yes.

Again, I suspect PF is somehow involved. But with the evidence released as of now, there's nothing. I'm seeing a lot of fairly normal country farming behavior honestly. And for as odd as it looks to an outsider who is used to urban life, your urban life can be baffling to someone who is used to rural country life.

Yes of course people can't compare how one works with a working dog to how a pet is treated. Different worlds.

That being said, several country people on here said he seemed off with those dogs.

I won't say he was abusing them but his demeanor and inflection felt...off to me. Made me feel he is an abusive person. I don't think he treated those animals with respect. And they're not being bred for meat. They're being bred to work with humans.

Like I said, I know farmers with working farms and working dogs and have seen how they treat their animals. There's something different here.

Not one ounce of respect which a good farmer should have. IMO.

I stand by my opinion that this seems to be a cold and abusive man with a temper who would likely shoot a dog after he has no use for it.

It's my instinct. I understand I could be wrong and sure hope I am. For Kelsey and their baby's sake.

 

[Gardener1850]

Unless she told someone before she went missing.

But not her mom? She made small talk with her mom about the upcoming holiday plans (gifts, buying a tree, decorating, etc) and asked her mom for a recipe. Mom said her voice was normal and it was just like any other day. Are we to believe KB lied to her mom to say everything was fine and that she was going to have dinner with PF and baby? Before we knew how close KB was to her mom and the contents of their calls that morning I thought that could happen. But after learning more about their family and about KB I'm convinced they were close as far as a mother daughter relationship. They talked twice on Thanksgiving morning and she asked for a recipe.

The following is just an opinion but in my experience if an adult is estranged from their parents or the relationship is strained or they are hiding info from their parents then they avoid calling that frequently.They might only call on holidays to say "happy thanksgiving" and not much else. They would be less likely to invent future plans (buying tree, gift giving plans, dinner, etc) but would instead change the subject and ask the parents more questions about what is going on in their life. I can say this because I've been there, done that. MOO.

 

[K9Enzo]

Being raised by a police officer this was something my sister's and I knew well. Do not ever let an abductor take you anywhere, you fight like hell, scream, whatever you need to do

Yes. When you are taken to the second location your chances of survival drastically decrease.

 

[Madison418]

I think KB left willingly from her home. I think if a crime had taken place at her home there would be evidence of such or evidence of clean up and the neighbors would have noticed if the truck came back after Thanksgiving. This is just so puzzling. The biggest impediment IMO is the span of time between her last sighting and when she was reported missing. That's a head scratcher as well.

 

[darring21]

This. All this. Those are WORKING dogs, not your pet on the sofa. A working bred Border Collie will destroy a house out of boredom.

Was that pet training? No.

Was that pretty standard cattle dog training? Actually, yes.

Again, I suspect PF is somehow involved. But with the evidence released as of now, there's nothing. I'm seeing a lot of fairly normal country farming behavior honestly. And for as odd as it looks to an outsider who is used to urban life, your urban life can be baffling to someone who is used to rural country life.

Yep. The chickens get killed when they no longer lay eggs. Other animals are put down when they are no longer productive if it is a real farm. Not running an animal retirement home. Those that talk differently aren't trying to run a profitable farm.

 

[zecats]

Surprised to see how many people don't clear their text threads out.

I don't think anyone would know who is who if they got my phone (other than "Mom" and "Dad"). I constantly delete text threads.

I do too but my contacts are always on there.

 

[NewMama]

I'm wondering if Kelsey had life insurance coverage and if PF would somehow have access to the benefit as father of their child? (Assuming he isn't listed as beneficiary.) *Under the theory of foul play by the hands of PF and this was perhaps planned.

 

[Gardener1850]

Surprised to see how many people don't clear their text threads out.

I don't think anyone would know who is who if they got my phone (other than "Mom" and "Dad"). I constantly delete text threads.

I probably should not admit this but don't even know HOW to delete my texts, lol.

 

[Steelhead]

Border collies are used as cattle dogs because it is their instinct to herd animals. In that video he has an experienced dog and 4 pups that are just learning. They already know how to herd instinctively and want to do it. The training is largely about learning the commands from the rancher as to what he wants done with the animals. The pups are chained to the fence because if they aren't they will charge in to herd the cows. He doesn't want that yet. They are on very short leashes so that they cant start to run and get snapped back, but enough leash so they can go under to the other side of the fence to get out of the arena if necessary. He comment about his hand is that he would rather cut off his right hand that be without the dog. ie, the dog is THAT important to him. None of those dogs are scared. Herding dogs nip the back of the legs of animals to get them to move, its what they do, there is nothing abusive about it. Honestly, I think people are just starting to make stuff up now.

bbm- And why do we keep cows herded? So we can eat them! Let's keep that in mind when criticizing the dog herding trade.

 

[gitana1]

But not her mom? She made small talk with her mom about the upcoming holiday plans (gifts, buying a tree, decorating, etc) and asked her mom for a recipe. Mom said her voice was normal and it was just like any other day. Are we to believe KB lied to her mom to say everything was fine and that she was going to have dinner with PF and baby? Before we knew how close KB was to her mom and the contents of their calls that morning I thought that could happen. But after learning more about their family and about KB I'm convinced they were close as far as a mother daughter relationship. They talked twice on Thanksgiving morning and she asked for a recipe.

The following is just an opinion but in my experience if an adult is estranged from their parents or the relationship is strained or they are hiding info from their parents then they avoid calling that frequently.They might only call on holidays to say "happy thanksgiving" and not much else. They would be less likely to invent future plans (buying tree, gift giving plans, dinner, etc) but would instead change the subject and ask the parents more questions about what is going on in their life. I can say this because I've been there, done that. MOO.

Yes you're right. If she sounded normal and indicated she was going to dinner with him that contradicts a possible break up. Unless she was emrbassed to tell her mom? She has a religious family and had a kid before marriage but at least could reassure them she's getting married to the dad. Maybe embarrassment would prevent her from telling mom right away?

But yeah. You make sense. It would seem odd for her to tell someone about a break up but lie in such detail to her mom.

 

[jaspermac]

I'm wondering if Kelsey had life insurance coverage and if PF would somehow have access to the benefit as father of their child? (Assuming he isn't listed as beneficiary.) *Under the theory of foul play by the hands of PF and this was perhaps planned.

She definitely would have had life insurance through work at minimum, and if the child was listed as the beneficiary and he was the guardian then he would have access to that money. It is unusual for someone else to be put as the trustee because it creates problems unless you don't trust the guardian. Who is going to say that if they want access to their grandchild?

 

[jillianelaine]

Thank you. She is also a verified insider. I don't know why this is still debated. This and you add in the appearance of a not so lovey relationship.

Im not sure whether anyone is challenging the authenticity of the statement provided by her aunt. I think it more likely that the debate revolves around where that information came from. In other words, did Kelsey tell her mother that they broke up, or did her mother secrete that information from the text which was sent to the boyfriend. You are spot on when you recognized that I challenge whether it indeed was a loving relationship. In my opinion it was more likely a workable relationship. Two people who both, for very different reasons, lack the initiative or desire to maintain a loving, mainstream traditional relationship.

 

[1wonderleads2another]

Yes, but a stranger would have no reason to establish an alibi. The father of her child (who now has the child) would.

Actually anyone who knew KB at all would need an alibi, even if they only knew her from Tinder that day. (So all acquaintances, family, students, co workers if the perp would have motive to fake texts )

The perp would want an alibi if there was any electronic trail or any possibility they passed a camera while together.

 

[BRRI]

Yes, but a stranger would have no reason to establish an alibi. The father of her child (who now has the child) would.

Idk. With the amount of people with cameras today, a stranger may still be worried about covering their tracks.

 

[LittleDoe]

When my relative did not answer calls for a couple of days, and later sent me pictures taken during hiking, I never doubted the story. True, the person was not living alone, but the pictures could have been taken anywhere. I noticed that if the text is accompanied by photos, it makes the situation more believable, although photos are easy to fake, time and place-wise.

Here is the thing. KB might have not locked the phone, or her password might have been predictable. And I wonder if one picture, taken whenever but posted on private IG during that day, the 25th, would have put her mom's mind at ease.

Good thought on the idea of sending a picture via text or email. I did not think of that. TY

 

[Colorado303]

The place where she worked said no planes had been used or were missing recently MOO

No planes were signed out by her or missing. Some other pilot could have leased a plane, flowm her somewhere and returned it.

 

[susiQ]

Probably visiting friends in Idaho. Just kidding! LOL

Nice comic relief!