CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #59

[susiQ]

That would make sense. They’ll call her to explain how this all went down, and follow her testimony with experts who can back her claims with an explanation of the evidence.

We might see KK tomorrow!!!

ETA: The sad fact that we won’t actually “see” KK, notwithstanding.

It WOULD have to be the ONE day, I have to be out I'll never catch up ......hoping insomnia kicks in again

 

[oviedo]

So then I guess we don't know anything about the other property or who may be living there now.
Was it Frazee who did not want to sell it and the siblings did or was that just speculation?
I wonder if it is one of the siblings who wanted the others to buy them out? Maybe it was actually PF who wanted to sell it.

I guess we'll know more details later.

Imo

As far as I know we do not know what made up the late fathers estate. Could be real property, bank account, retirement accounts etc - that infighting over his estate just doesn’t seem important to me other than he may have needed a quick settlement to pay of his big debt IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Mods please don't get me in trouble for this:
------------------------------------------
Sean, what do you mean you didn't know what to think?? There's a police report filed for a missing person, and YOU are law enforcement. Didn't matter if they were broke up or not she is the mother of your niece!!!!!
Since you're law enforcement I would guess you had some kind of training on this!

At that point I don't think he had any idea what the evidence was against his brother. He probably believed him at first.
I bet it didn't take long for him to figure it out, though.

Imo

 

[crhedBngr]

I agree, one of the BEST things they did was get that baby away from him.

I agree. I don't think he could handle raising her by himself. Ma F. would be very active in helping out.

Not a good combination of caregivers.

JMVHO.

 

[Steelslady]

Mods please don't get me in trouble for this:
------------------------------------------
Sean, what do you mean you didn't know what to think?? There's a police report filed for a missing person, and YOU are law enforcement. Didn't matter if they were broke up or not she is the mother of your niece!!!!!
Since you're law enforcement I would guess you had some kind of training on this!

At that point, though, personal feelings over ride career feelings for a bit.

He probably believed his brother was innocent, until the evidence became known.

The fact that he testified against his own brother, gave him a strong look and rolled his eyes when he walked by Patrick today, tells me he knows his brother is guilty of this murder. He is probably angry and embarrassed himself.

Thank goodness he did the right thing and didn't bother lying or trying to defend his brother. That had to be tough.

 

[oviedo]

Yah, don't think it will work for most of the jurors. Just trying to guess at the 'shape' of their defense narrative.

They are going to grab onto the state's assertion that not ALL comings and goings are on surveillance footage. So they can possibly get the jury to agree that NOT seeing Kelsey leave is not solid proof that she was deceased when PF was seen leaving with the baby.

It just goes to the dangerous terrain of reasonable doubt.

And it does change the timeline. If they can convince the jury that she was drunk and depressed, she might have sat alone in her condo for 48 hours, without communicating.

And even if he said she was the one who broke up, they can still say it was mutual, but she was having mental issues, etc. I don't think many people would believe that. But it just takes one.

But to make that work IMO he would have to take the stand and I don’t think he will

 

[Hatfield]

Yes and remember how most everyone here said "No way PF dumped anything incriminating at the local dump spot, he can't be that stupid"? Well.........

PF is the 'stupid' gift that just keeps on giving and I am thankful for it.

It really is mind boggling just how stupid some of his actions were.

His changing stories alone is enough for the jury to throw a lot of doubt on anything his defense will come up with.

It seems he started by telling others she may have left to seek treatment for alcohol.

Then he tells others she may have left to help a sick grandmother.

Then he tells the Mom he has no idea where she is and he wont even go check on her for her because he is busy with the cattle (again).

No telling what new story his defense will come up with but it doesnt matter because its just another excuse in his long list of excuses for things.

The one thing I still cant get over from yesterday is it seems like PF really did think that if he just took KB's phone, had someone send a few fake texts, and then destroyed it that nobody would figure out more about it.

This better explains why he had KK smash it to pieces. He really did think by destroying it that no more information could be obtained from it.

How so wrong he was.

 

[Insomnia Momma]

Yah, don't think it will work for most of the jurors. Just trying to guess at the 'shape' of their defense narrative.

They are going to grab onto the state's assertion that not ALL comings and goings are on surveillance footage. So they can possibly get the jury to agree that NOT seeing Kelsey leave is not solid proof that she was deceased when PF was seen leaving with the baby.

It just goes to the dangerous terrain of reasonable doubt.

And it does change the timeline. If they can convince the jury that she was drunk and depressed, she might have sat alone in her condo for 48 hours, without communicating.

And even if he said she was the one who broke up, they can still say it was mutual, but she was having mental issues, etc. I don't think many people would believe that. But it just takes one.

I just don’t see a way to explain why PF has her phone then?

 

[Seattle1]

I'm confused about the fathers estate.
Does it include the ranch or another property?
I thought it was SF who owned the ranch.

Public records support SF owns the property and pays the taxes on house and 35 acres.

Dad's entire estate valued at $400k

I think it's clear that SF is the legal owner of the property, and most likely had a separate agreement pursuant to divorce that probably applied to half of the acreage. These agreements often are triggered by the sale of the property, dependent child attaining maturity, etc..

This is very common! And perfectly normal that the heirs are in place to replace dad as beneficiaries of the agreement.

Most important, this topic likely became forefront for the siblings because the executor had to quickly establish the fair market value of the land at the date of dad's death to establish or record the stepped-up basis for the heirs.

Nobody was going to force SF out of her house and on to the street. She's the owner!!

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

At that point, though, personal feelings over ride career feelings for a bit.

He probably believed his brother was innocent, until the evidence became known.

The fact that he testified against his own brother, gave him a strong look and rolled his eyes when he walked by Patrick today, tells me he knows his brother is guilty of this murder. He is probably angry and embarrassed himself.

Thank goodness he did the right thing and didn't bother lying or trying to defend his brother. That had to be tough.

Yes. What matters is what he did on the stand today.

He effectively buried his brother, linking the evidence that PF was at Kelsey’s house, to his arrival at Thanksgiving (2 hours late).

He completed an important part of the timeline, and provided details that we wouldn’t otherwise know.

Not only did PF arrive late, but he parked to the side of the house. He also spent about half the time outside, probably taking care of business in regard to the tote.

This was damning stuff, and I’m glad he did the right thing.

 

[MsBetsy]

As far as I know we do not know what made up the late fathers estate. Could be real property, bank account, retirement accounts etc - that infighting over his estate just doesn’t seem important to me other than he may have needed a quick settlement to pay of his big debt IMO

Yes, they indicated it plays a role in terms of motive but I'm sure it will be clear when all the details come out.
It may just be to establish that PF was in financial trouble and between that and the child support he would have had to pay it contributed towards a motive.
I still think it had largely to do with his wanting custody and control of the baby, though.
The more motive the better, I guess.

Imo

 

[Kapua]

At that point, though, personal feelings over ride career feelings for a bit.

He probably believed his brother was innocent, until the evidence became known.

The fact that he testified against his own brother, gave him a strong look and rolled his eyes when he walked by Patrick today, tells me he knows his brother is guilty of this murder. He is probably angry and embarrassed himself.

Thank goodness he did the right thing and didn't bother lying or trying to defend his brother. That had to be tough.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt. MOO

 

[katydid23]

Except the defense said the murder happened someplace other than the condo, didn't they?

Yah, but they can still say that. His jealous girlfriend traveled from Idaho, got into the condo and assaulted KB in the condo, then took her somewhere else to get rid of her.

I am not agreeing with any of this---just saying that the defense might have answers for a few of these bad things the state has put forth. But I don't think they can over come all of it.

 

[Black eyed pea]

Does anyone know if KK's attorney has been in the courtroom this week? And who her attorney is?

 

[MassGuy]

Sam, responding to a question as to how he perceived the eye roll from SF to his brother.

To me, it was a look of disgust
Sam Kraemer on Twitter

 

[oviedo]

Public records support SF owns the property and pays the taxes on house and 35 acres.

Dad's entire estate valued at $400k

I think it's clear that SF is the legal owner of the property, and most likely had a separate agreement pursuant to divorce that probably applied to half of the acreage. These agreements often are triggered by the sale of the property, dependent child attaining maturity, etc..

This is very common! And perfectly normal that the heirs are in place to replace dad as beneficiaries of the agreement.

Most important, this topic likely became forefront for the siblings because the executor had to quickly establish the fair market value of the land at the date of dad's death to establish or record the stepped-up basis for the heirs.

Nobody was going to force SF out of her house and on to the street. She's the owner!!

MOO

Well done @Seattle1 ! Let’s put this one to bed please

 

[Aydrianna523]

It really is mind boggling just how stupid some of his actions were.

His changing stories alone is enough for the jury to throw a lot of doubt on anything his defense will come up with.

It seems he started by telling others she may have left to seek treatment for alcohol.

Then he tells others she may have left to help a sick grandmother.

Then he tells the Mom he has no idea where she is and he wont even go check on her for her because he is busy with the cattle (again).

No telling what new story his defense will come up with but it doesnt matter because its just another excuse in his long list of excuses for things.

The one thing I still cant get over from yesterday is it seems like PF really did think that if he just took KB's phone, had someone send a few fake texts, and then destroyed it that nobody would figure out more about it.

This better explains why he had KK smash it to pieces. He really did think by destroying it that no more information could be obtained from it.

How so wrong he was.

I think he's one of those guys that told lies all his life and it seemed to him that everyone 'bought' into them, so he figured he'll just lie/charm his way out of this one too.

 

[MsBetsy]

But to make that work IMO he would have to take the stand and I don’t think he will

That would be the biggest bombshell of all!

 

[katydid23]

I just don’t see a way to explain why PF has her phone then?

right. They'd have to come up with a whopper to try and explain that one.

'she left it in my truck--I didnt even know it was there...?'

Nah...

 

[oviedo]

Yes, they indicated it plays a role in terms of motive but I'm sure it will be clear when all the details come out.
It may just be to establish that PF was in financial trouble and between that and the child support he would have had to pay it contributed towards a motive.
I still think it had largely to do with his wanting custody and control of the baby, though.
The more motive the better, I guess.

Imo

It certainly helps the jury - I will be watching closely to see if they revisit his dads estate later - my guess at this point ? I need to do some digging but if this prosecution thinks it has bearing I’m going to go with them because they are batting a thousand IMO