CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #59

[Hatch]

iirc, they jointly owned a vehicle. I don't remember the make or year. I don't know how CO handles vehicle licensing but in my state in order to renew plates, we pay for the registration plus taxes.

JMO

I read the statement as he was $150 short on her last CS payment. Somebody plz correct if I am wrong in the way it reads.

 

[katydid23]

Wow! More bombshells in this fast-moving thread.

I know there are many more witnesses and lots of evidence to share but does a trial like this (with this kind of defendant) ever wind up with a plea deal being offered from either side?

Or once a trial gets this far it goes all the way through jury deliberation?

Plea deals can come in the middle of a trial and even on the final day of a trial. The hard part is getting both sides to agree.

With this much damning evidence, it would be nearly impossible for PF to get any kind of deal that would be beneficial for him. The only way that could change would be if the trial suddenly started to go downhill for the prosecution---and I don't see that happening.

 

[oviedo]

And if anyone thinks this can’t be just about custody have a look at the Rhoden family allegedly murdered by a family (wagners) who wanted custody - and I’m following another case where a young mother was dismembered by her STBX, his father, brother and mother all arrested - there are no lengths some will go to - to claim their own
I know we aren’t supposed to discuss other cases but I’m showing these two because they seem to be just about custody as is Jennifer Dulos murder IMO

 

[PommyMommy]

Daniela Leon on Twitter (Video)
Here's a look of #PatrickFrazee coming out of the courtroom today. @FOX21News @KDVR
5:37 PM - 5 Nov 2019

 

[MyBelle]

I am not a lawyer, but have been a heir in the same probate court of El Paso county.
There is no tax on inheritances in the range of this testimony. With a properly written, current and filed will there are no problems and no room to contest. My personal opinion is that the deceased was no financial wizard, and may we have died intestate. What we have is a strong case of much ado about nothing. IANAL, JMO

ITA. That's exactly what it sounds like because the same thing happened in my husband's family when their mom died suddenly and was intestate. They had great relationships with each other and worked it out so youngest son could continue to live in the house.

JMO

 

[GordianKnot]

You are probably right GoJacks. But I’m gonna keep my fingers crossed.

If this were a football game, Dan May is playing on gold plated AstroTurf with angels flying above....and Steigerwald is knee deep in a mud bowl.

BBM:

If this were a football game, Dan May would be Tom Brady and Steigerwald would be Charlie Brown.

Steigerwald being CB puts PF in the role of Lucy, of course...on account of he's managing to pull that football out from underneath Steigerwald every time he tries to kick it, despite the fact that Steigerwald is playing on the same team.

PF (as Lucy): "You're hopeless, Charlie Brown, absolutely hopeless."

Steigerwald (as Charlie Brown): "Good Grief!"

Dan May (as Tom Brady): "How Many Rings Can I Fit On One Hand, Anyway?"

JMO.

 

[MemPat]

Wondering about Patrick's lunches.....
Would he be able to eat anything his lawyers were willing to bring him?
If he likes it way better than the jail's Spam, he may play this out 'til the end even if he plans to plea.

 

[PommyMommy]

Lol, Sam's such a trooper.

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Yes! I just need to eat dinner first
5:55 PM - 5 Nov 2019

(In response to: Sam will you post a recap of today’s trial as you did last night? You did a great job. Looking forward to another live recap!)

Sam Kraemer on Twitter (GIF)
Let’s take a live look at @AshleyKKTV, me & every other reporter covering the case at the end of the day
6:02 PM - 5 Nov 2019

 

[Sweetsbeach]

July 2018 - PF’s last support payment to KB

August 2018 - half completed custody paperwork, he knew he’d never get custody. When did he start “trying” to paint KB as a bad mom again?

September 2018 - PF hatches new plan, not custody, just get rid of KB

I know I've said this before, but I always wondered if PF sat down with a family law attorney who burst his narcissistic bubble.

My sister said many come to her thinking if there's no agreement or court order, that they can just file and get primary custody no problem...as if the court doesn't take into consideration what's been the established living situation for the child.

She also gives alot of reality checks regarding child support. Many of her clients who have the higher of the two parental incomes falsely believe if they get primary or 50/50 custody they'll no longer have to pay any support. She said you wouldn't believe how fast the custody issue is dropped after that myth is dispelled and numbers are crunched.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

There are currently 281 members and 857 guests on WS.
Come on guests.....sign up and join us

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Lol, Sam's such a trooper.

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Yes! I just need to eat dinner first
5:55 PM - 5 Nov 2019

(In response to: Sam will you post a recap of today’s trial as you did last night? You did a great job. Looking forward to another live recap!)

Sam Kraemer on Twitter (GIF)
Let’s take a live look at @AshleyKKTV, me & every other reporter covering the case at the end of the day
6:02 PM - 5 Nov 2019

BBM
I heard there's a Sonic nearby.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Lol, Sam's such a trooper.

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Yes! I just need to eat dinner first
5:55 PM - 5 Nov 2019

(In response to: Sam will you post a recap of today’s trial as you did last night? You did a great job. Looking forward to another live recap!)

I think it's going to be on again tonight at 8, but it depends on your time zome. 10 Eastern here.
Sam Kraemer TV on facebook

 

[PommyMommy]

I know I've said this before, but I always wondered if PF sat down with a family law attorney who burst his narcissistic bubble.

My sister said many come to her thinking if there's no agreement or court order, that they can just file and get primary custody no problem...as if the court doesn't take into consideration what's been the established living situation for the child.

She also gives alot of reality checks regarding child support. Many of her clients who have the higher of the two parental incomes falsely believe if they get primary or 50/50 custody they'll no longer have to pay any support. She said you wouldn't believe how fast the custody issue is dropped after that myth is dispelled and numbers are crunched.

He hired a lawyer. MOO

Ashley Franco on Twitter
We also learn #PatrickFrazee hired a lawyer to help with those custody papers. They were never filed, but they existed. We've heard rumors about this before. It was confirmed today. @KKTV11News #KelseyBerreth
3:30 PM - 5 Nov 2019

 

[oviedo]

I know I've said this before, but I always wondered if PF sat down with a family law attorney who burst his narcissistic bubble.

My sister said many come to her thinking if there's no agreement or court order, that they can just file and get primary custody no problem...as if the court doesn't take into consideration what's been the established living situation for the child.

She also gives alot of reality checks regarding child support. Many of her clients who have the higher of the two parental incomes falsely believe if they get primary or 50/50 custody they'll no longer have to pay any support. She said you wouldn't believe how fast the custody issue is dropped after that myth is dispelled and numbers are crunched.

I think he either had a consult or did some research IMO

 

[oviedo]

He hired a lawyer. MOO

Ashley Franco on Twitter
We also learn #PatrickFrazee hired a lawyer to help with those custody papers. They were never filed, but they existed. We've heard rumors about this before. It was confirmed today. @KKTV11News #KelseyBerreth
3:30 PM - 5 Nov 2019

Thanks @PommyMommy

 

[Gardener1850]

Yes. And it was good strategy to put him up before his mother, who is more questionable.

Now she is in a tougher place. She cannot possibly say PF arrived earlier than 5.

Or that his truck was parked out front in the driveway and nothing seemed amiss.

She has to corroborate what her upstanding Law Enforcement Officer son already testified to.

So what will she do when they begin asking about the fire? And about KK's visit?

I'm expecting a lot of "I don't recall" answers from SF. It will be interesting to see if she will claim to be a sick or disabled woman as PF's lawyer has already alluded to with that leading question asking CB if PF lived with his mother to help take care of her. The answer CB gave was perfect-- that she was under the impression SF worked too and only let PF stay there to take care of his animals and also that SF had threatened to call animal control if PF's animals got out of line. I want to hear what SF says about the animals on the ranch too. I have a feeling we will get a totally different story from her on what the arrangement was with PF living at home-- not because CB was wrong but because we know that info came from KB or PF and PF likely lied to KB in the first place. MOO.

 

[Simply Southern]

Or, did he take out a loan and mummy co-signed for it? He would need co-sign since he owned no property of his own.

A good possibility...some how the family may be connected to the loan. Could the lender place a lien with the estate?

Not so sure PF was in good graces with mama. We'll see...

 

[Colorado303]

@BUF said: ↑
Jurors are permitted to ask questions. Have we heard this before?

Not in all jurisdictions. Good to know.



I recall Texas restricts the practice for criminal trials.

Not sure how current this reference is but don't see Colorado here:

A small number of states have changed their laws and court rules to allow jurors to ask witnesses questions, either orally or in writing through the judge. Written questions submitted in advanced allow attorneys for both sides to make objections based either on the ground they would violate the rules governing the admission of evidence or would result in prejudice against their clients.

The states that expressly encourage judges to allow jurors to question witnesses are Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Nevada and North Carolina.

Out of these jurisdictions, Arizona, Florida, and Kentucky require that judges allow jurors to ask written questions. The respective highest state courts of Indiana and Kentucky have ruled jurors have a right to ask questions of witnesses.

Other jurisdictions give a more restricted endorsement of this practice. In Pennsylvania and Michigan, the respective state supreme courts have said it is permissible at the discretion of the trial judge.

Texas does not permit jurors to question witnesses in criminal trials and Georgia law requires all questions to be written and submitted to the judge. Only Mississippi law expressly forbids jurors from questioning witnesses.

https://courts.uslegal.com/jury-system/issues-pertaining-to-the-jurys-performance-of-its-duties/questioning-of-witnesses-by-jurors/

A few years ago I was a juror in CO and we could submit questions in writing to the judge. If the judge approved it the witness would be asked the question.

 

[susiQ]

I agree. As soon as I saw that I thought, "Man, he looks rough!" MOO

Maybe it has FINALLY dawned on dufus that his "goose" is fully cooked and his last TG was in fact.......his LAST TG.

Of course I'm looking forward to KK's testimony and SF1's, but also in finding out what that "phone call" was all about that the defence wanted to nix, but Judge Sells let it in. Oh, and not to forget the testimony of the CPS worker's interview with him. That's gonna be interesting knowing how "smart" PF is . We ALL know it already, but we need to see it, that his goose isn't just cooked, it's throughly burnt!

JMHO

 

[skyedaze]

His brother just buried him!

UPDATE: #PatrickFrazee arrived late and missed T-day dinner at mother’s house, arriving about 5 p.m., says his brother, Colorado Springs police officer Sean Frazee. #KelseyBerreth @csgazette

Lance Benzel on Twitter

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm guessing someone has already posted the distance time from KBs condo to the franch... I think we prob did that ages ago also.