CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #62

[Megnut]

This is bothering me. Why did PF return to the townhouse for the baby ornament/gift? Straight up magnetism, criminal returning to the scene of the crime? How did he know it would be there???? Am I remembering this right, he went back for the package but wouldn't go back to "check" on KB when her family couldn't reach her?

Seems like Einstein had fluid theories for what happened to KB. He wasn't even bright enough to stick with one, but let's just run with one. He meets KB, they exchange the baby, then KB must ask him, "say, would you ever take my cellphone and drive it all over hill and dale?" And then, KK comes into town later and does the deed? Um, PF, why'd you have her phone?

Darn, I hate when the details get in the way of absurd defences.

MOO MOO MOO

 

[oviedo]

No, but this sure as hell was:

"And he's like man, if I had known it was going to blow up this big, I never would have..."And he stopped. He did not finish that sentence.”

Coupled with this, before the murder:

Moore recalled an April 2018 conversation about #KelseyBerreth:
"I figured out a way to kill her," #PatrickFrazee said.

"And I went don't even talk about **** like that," Moore replied.
"He went, 'No body, no crime.'"
"I said 'Patrick, get that out of your head.'"
@csgazette

Jakob Rodgers on Twitter

I think this testimony seals the conviction IMO

 

[susiQ]

I wonder what would have happened if KK had told him to clean up his own mess?

Exactly!! That's what she SHOULD have said and then promptly called police. But, then again, she should have done that long, long before that

 

[srg]

I did figure that was your professional opinion and as objective as possible, which I'll freely admit to being less so (understatement). I agree that she isn't likely to do such a thing again but only because the man of her dreams is going to prison. If they'd gotten away with this, I wouldn't put it past her to assist in his future criminal acts.

I see her as obsessed with him and while manipulated, it was she making 1500 mile round trips to chase him. He certainly wasn't around to brow beat her, like a live in boyfriend. She went looking that action. What do you make of that (psychologically)?

Two thoughts come to mind in response to your question:

First, my assessment of KK remains the same as previously stated, and would inherently explain her cray-cray actions.

Second, since I’m not KK’s treatment provider, I’m open to a totally different case conceptualization that explains her intentions. But for that to happen, I’d need more data about KK’d psych profile.

It will be interesting to see what else we might find out!

 

[Megnut]

These horses someone was supposed to come get .... if we assume "horses" is code, code for what? And did it ever get picked up??? Is there a stash of unclaimed evidence somewhere? Alternately, could "horses" have meant the baby? Order of events, was KK brought to light by then? Was that his next genius plan, whisk the baby off to Idaho, figuring nobody would look for her either, and certainly not there?

As for clean up, if KK had said, "No way. Do it yourself. " she'd been on his hit list no doubt, but that still wouldn't solve his immediate need. He'd have found another woman to clean up for him. Easy guess who that would've been.

MOO MOO MOO

 

[susiQ]

IMO if he told her where the body was I wonder why she hasn't told LE where it was disposed of. She gave a blow by blow account of her version of the murder but leaves out the most important fact? KK gives LE vague information, like he could have disposed of Kelsey here or maybe there. She gave such a detailed description of the other events, some of which she did not witness, why not where Kelsey's remains ended up?

Because PF gave her "vague" information on this. Truth is, it may be the only smart thing he did. Because if they did find KB's remains, if there are any, it would lead right back to him, just like all the other evidence she lead LE to. JMHO

 

[osu]

This is bothering me. Why did PF return to the townhouse for the baby ornament/gift? Straight up magnetism, criminal returning to the scene of the crime? How did he know it would be there???? Am I remembering this right, he went back for the package but wouldn't go back to "check" on KB when her family couldn't reach her?

Seems like Einstein had fluid theories for what happened to KB. He wasn't even bright enough to stick with one, but let's just run with one. He meets KB, they exchange the baby, then KB must ask him, "say, would you ever take my cellphone and drive it all over hill and dale?" And then, KK comes into town later and does the deed? Um, PF, why'd you have her phone?

Darn, I hate when the details get in the way of absurd defences.

MOO MOO MOO

I believe during the phone call between PF and CB, CB asked him to go check to see if the package was on the porch. CB was trying to figure out if Kelsey had been back to the condo, and if so she would’ve removed the package from the porch.

The package contained a Christmas ornament for BabyK that was sent to her by Kelsey’s brother.

JMO

 

[Simply Southern]

TELLER COUNTY, Colo. — Krystal Jean Lee Kenney, 32, of Idaho, pleaded guilty Friday morning to one count of tampering with physical evidence in connection to the case of missing Woodland Park mom Kelsey Berreth, 29.

Kenney will face her sentence after Frazee's trial and is not allowed to talk to media.

Idaho woman pleads guilty to charge in Kelsey Berreth case

Thank you for correcting my misinformation

I should have double checked this one vs my memory.

Brings up an interesting point with the Board of Medicine and censorship of her license. I will check the BOM to see why/how she retained a license.

MOO

 

[srg]

Well, regarding, those "types" your talking about, I'm confident DA May weeded them out AND, If they can't come to the "logical" conclusion with this mountain of evidence before them, they need to be in therapy with KK!

Good point! @Artis, maybe you and I can co-lead a therapy group with these people? That way we ensure we cover all our bases.

 

[susiQ]

Taking a look at some numbers...

Wasn't there an update to the number of witnesses left to testify or is this Nov 6 article the latest report about that? For some reason, 60 or 65 is stuck in my head.

NOV 6, 2019 - Frazee trial: Kenney testifies, details their relationship
As the court headed into morning recess, Judge Sells said he is expecting up to 80 other witnesses to testify.

NOV 8 - Prosecutors attempt to corroborate witness in Patrick Frazee trial
More than 30 witnesses have been called in case in first two weeks

Counting down until Nov 22:

• Next week, 4 days of testimony
• The following week, 5 days including the 22nd (a Friday)

Just pondering here. MOO

If I could have my wish it would be that they wrap this up on the 21st and on the 22nd the jury comes in with "Guilty as charged, on ALL counts!" How I'd love to see his sorry butt hauled off to live out the rest of his useless life on that day. Wishful thinking probably but it's a pleasant thought!
ed:sp

 

[skyedaze]

So I hope PF and NONE of his family is allowed to make any money off of this whole horrible thing.
And this had better be one of the 7 things on KKs list..no book!

I think there is a civil suit correct? If not I hope so and I hope CB takes the franch.
SF needs to be called to the stand..and anything she says can be used in the civil suit is that not correct?

 

[PommyMommy]

This is bothering me. Why did PF return to the townhouse for the baby ornament/gift? Straight up magnetism, criminal returning to the scene of the crime? How did he know it would be there???? Am I remembering this right, he went back for the package but wouldn't go back to "check" on KB when her family couldn't reach her?

Seems like Einstein had fluid theories for what happened to KB. He wasn't even bright enough to stick with one, but let's just run with one. He meets KB, they exchange the baby, then KB must ask him, "say, would you ever take my cellphone and drive it all over hill and dale?" And then, KK comes into town later and does the deed? Um, PF, why'd you have her phone?

Darn, I hate when the details get in the way of absurd defences.

MOO MOO MOO

BBM

You're remembering correctly. PF was also caught in another lie here. Big surprise, I know.

PF told Huber that he had not been to the townhouse and that he had a friend pick up the package - page 5, I think.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/002/18-118 Search Warrant.pdf

 

[Dave F.]

These horses someone was supposed to come get .... if we assume "horses" is code, code for what? And did it ever get picked up??? Is there a stash of unclaimed evidence somewhere? Alternately, could "horses" have meant the baby? Order of events, was KK brought to light by then? Was that his next genius plan, whisk the baby off to Idaho, figuring nobody would look for her either, and certainly not there?

As for clean up, if KK had said, "No way. Do it yourself. " she'd been on his hit list no doubt, but that still wouldn't solve his immediate need. He'd have found another woman to clean up for him. Easy guess who that would've been.

MOO MOO MOO

I realize that there is very little possibility in anyone's mind that "horses" was a code word of some sort..........but the only evidence of their relationship, other than KK's colorful tale, is that they owned at least one horse together. If he had really wanted KK to come pick up the horses if he was arrested, what would that code word have been? It seems like this code word business could get awful clumsy IMO

 

[skyedaze]

BBM

You're remembering correctly. He was also caught in another lie here. Big surprise, I know.

PF told Huber that he had not been to the townhouse and that he had a friend pick up the package - page 5, I think.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/002/18-118 Search Warrant.pdf

Call that "friend" to the stand to testify!
we know what happened...make him say it

 

[justaparent]

I wonder what would have happened if KK had told him to clean up his own mess?

He would have tried to find someone else to do it.

I wonder what he would have done if no one would help (there’s possibly just one candidate). Would he walk away? That would eliminate the whole “no body” thing, and his plan to make it look like KB just left.

I think he might’ve moved on to plan C (whatever that might be) and I don’t think he would’ve driven to Idaho then or later to go after KK. This guy is unmotivated and that would take effort, plus take him away from his comfort zone.

But I think he had reason to believe KK would come and take care of the scene.

Pure speculation.

 

[PommyMommy]

So I hope PF and NONE of his family is allowed to make any money off of this whole horrible thing.
And this had better be one of the 7 things on KKs list..no book!

I think there is a civil suit correct? If not I hope so and I hope CB takes the franch.
SF needs to be called to the stand..and anything she says can be used in the civil suit is that not correct?

Yes, the Berreth's filed a wrongful death lawsuit. A review hearing is scheduled for Dec 5. See below:

 

[Safeguard]

Absolutely! PF's childhood has some very dark
happenings. Much trauma in his past growing up. Some psychological trauma plus physical trauma. Very neglectful but also punishing.
Can't tell you who did what, TOS, but it's there
just like in many other cases where young men
do these crimes, especially, against young women.
And remember these children growing up
'learned what they lived".

So why didn't his brother "live what he learned"?

Pf never had a human soul imo.
When it comes to psychopaths I am firmly in the born that way camp.

Mommy made me do it doesn't hold water for me.

You never hear parenting blamed for homosexuality any more because we know thats a 'born that way' issue.

So is Psychopathy. imo

 

[PommyMommy]

Bumping Niner's post from the last thread:

Friday, November 8th:
*Trial continues (Day 6) (@ 8:30am MT) - CO – Kelsey Berreth (29) (last seen Nov. 22, 2018, Woodland Park; phone pinged 800 miles away in Gooding, Idaho on 11/25/18 @ 5:13pm, reported missing Dec. 2, 2018; not found) – *Patrick Michael Frazee (32) “fiancé” arrested (12/21/18), charged (12/31/18) & arraigned (4/8/19) with 2 counts 1st degree murder (to align with the prosecution’s theories on how he did it), 3 counts of solicitation to commit 1st degree murder, 1st degree felony murder (death during attempted robbery) and charged (4/5/19) with 2 counts of crime of violence (sentence enhancer). Plead not guilty. Held without bond. DA will not seek DP.
Trial began on Monday, 10/28 with jury selection, trial started on 11/1. Trial is expected to last 3 weeks (thru 11/18/19). Jurors: 7 women & 5 men; alternates: 2 women & 2 men.
See post #4 here for 10/28/19 thru 11/5/19 court information:
Still Missing - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #60
11/6/19 Day 4: The judge also says he expects around 80 more witnesses to be called as part of the murder trial. State witnesses: Special Agent Kevin Hoyland (FBI expert on cell phones. He specializes in tracking cell phones & analyzed Kelsey’s, Frazee’s & Lee’s). Attorneys are meeting privately about privacy concerns for an upcoming witness. Krystal Lee (no long using Kenney) (mistress or ex of Frazee). She will continue testimony tomorrow. Trial continues on 11/7.
1/7/19: Lee Kenney testimony from 11/7/19 see post #532 here:
Still Missing - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #61
and post #623 page 33, post #720 page 36, post #832 page 42, #1108 page 56
11/7/19 Day 5: The trial was supposed to start at 8:45, so the court could handle a private matter. trial didn’t actually begin until 10:30. When it did, Judge Scott Sells said the delay was due to Frazee feeling sick this morning. He said Kenney didn’t feel well either. The delay allowed them to give Frazee some medicine and begin the day. State witnesses: Krystal Lee Kenney. Prosecutors showed 2 body camera videos of Lee (Kenney) walking investigators around Frazee's Florissant property on Dec. 21, 2018, describing Frazee burning Kelsey's body. (KK excused but not released). Teen ranch hand KR (“Richie”) (help clean up burn area). Another teen ranch hand (“Sam”). Trial continues on 11/8.
*Child: Review hearing on 12/5/19.
*Krystal Jean Lee (Kenney) – Plea deal-plead guilty to 1 count of tampering with physical evidence, a class 6 felony, with an open sentence. Will testify at Frazee’s trial. Review hearing on 12/2.

Still Missing - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #61

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I don't think she will either, but I still have this niggling feeling that PF has some dirt on her that the defence will use to call her character into question. I know, I know, not like they need anymore than she has already admitted to, but hey, they ain't got much to work with here and every itty bitty piece of dirt will at least make them look like they put in some effort If they do, we'll know soon enough, but I highly doubt it will jeopardize her plea deal. And, if the defence knows it, I'm confident the prosecution already knows it and is not in the least concerned. JMHO
ed:sp

Wouldn't he have to take the stand for that?

 

[enelram]

So why didn't his brother "live what he learned"?

Pf never had a human soul imo.
When it comes to psychopaths I am firmly in the born that way camp.

Mommy made me do it doesn't hold water for me.

You never hear parenting blamed for homosexuality any more because we know thats a 'born that way' issue.

So is Psychopathy. imo

Good questions, BTW.
Children all in the same family are not always
treated the same. We know that from studies.
The first born gets certain benefits in treatment that say the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th don't get. Same w/ babies in the family are often given much more lax care and discipline.
Some parents detest one child because he looks
like Uncle Joe the pedo, or little Mary looks
like the mother in law. See what I mean?

Also each child in a family has a distinctive brain w/ some more highly developed in certain areas of the brain. Some are smarter,
some are more emotional, some are more hardheaded, etc. In other words, each child is
unique.
But we do know that most times these psycho
criminals ALL have some sort of trauma in their past while growing up. Some horrible things happened to them that maybe did not happen to the other siblings. And also different siblings process trauma in different ways. Some let it bounce off them, some internalize the trauma and it affects them the rest of their lives.
If you read about the backgrounds of many
criminals, there's often similarities in their
childhoods. Neglect and severe punishment usually.
moo