CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #62

[osu]

Good questions, BTW.
Children all in the same family are not always
treated the same. We know that from studies.
The first born gets certain benefits in treatment that say the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th don't get. Same w/ babies in the family are often given much more lax care and discipline.
Some parents detest one child because he looks
like Uncle Joe the pedo, or little Mary looks
like the mother in law. See what I mean?

Also each child in a family has a distinctive brain w/ some more highly developed in certain areas of the brain. Some are smarter,
some are more emotional, some are more hardheaded, etc. In other words, each child is
unique.
But we do know that most times these psycho
criminals ALL have some sort of trauma in their past while growing up. Some horrible things happened to them that maybe did not happen to the other siblings. And also different siblings process trauma in different ways. Some let it bounce off them, some internalize the trauma and it affects them the rest of their lives.
If you read about the backgrounds of many
criminals, there's often similarities in their
childhoods. Neglect and severe punishment usually.
moo

Do we know when Patrick’s parents divorced? Was he very young at the time? Maybe both parents were abusive to him and then after the divorce SF had to work full-time leaving PF to fend for himself?

JMO

 

[Kapua]

I don't know that they could have gotten that much of a better deal for KK's full public confession.

She has had to publicly admit to a lot of horribly depraved actions. Embarrassing, humiliating , damning confession. I think they had to give her a good deal for her to agree upfront to everything.

Otherwise she could have kept her mouth shut and taken a gamble. They had already checked the condo, found nothing, and when they first searched the Frazee Ranch, they found nothing. It was not until she confess4ed that they found the burn site evidence.

So who knows if they would have found what they needed if she had kept her mouth shut. They apparently don't have any surveillance images of her going to the condo to cleAn.

I dont think the state got steamrolled on the plea deal. I think they got their killer served to them on a silver platter. And her putrid life is in shatters as well. Job well done by the prosecution, IMO.

I totally agree. I think the deal was fair, and I've stated that from day one. Not only did KKL paint a complete picture of the graphic crime scenes for the jury, but she led investigators to the evidence, which led to a fairly speedy arrest and the recovery of Baby K. If you recall, the Fs were not allowing CB to see her grandchild in the 3 1/2 weeks PF was free.

In return, she gets a felony conviction (no small thing, IMHO), a more lenient sentence or probation, and had to publicly confess her shameful actions to the court. She'll not do much time but she'll never live this down. A fair deal, IMHO.

PF on the other hand, is a very dangerous man and I have no doubt that he would kill again if given the opportunity. Securing his conviction protects society from ever again having to deal with this monster. MOO

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

didn't they take the washer too? Or am I imagining that?

The

Maybe that was PF's way of telling her "they're onto me. Took my phone"

Or get rid of Kelsey's pesky Mom,and brother.
MOO

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

My thought was that he was referring to some physical evidence.

Yeah that too. With PF I wouldn't it past him to try to take out her mom,and brother. If not for them who knows where this case would be now.
MOO

 

[Safeguard]

If you read about the backgrounds of many
criminals, there's often similarities in their childhoods. Neglect and severe punishment usually.

Almost all of us could scrape up traumatic events, I've had this debate before, and when I throw out a killer who wasn't abused, people use "his parents divorce was traumatic!"

Even if Mozart was kept from ever going anywhere near a piano his whole life. He was still born with song in his heart. (so to speak).

Yes of course, the soil in which the seed is planted matters, but if you plant poisonous nightshade, your not going to harvest corn.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Yes, the Berreth's filed a wrongful death lawsuit. A review hearing is scheduled for Dec 5. See below:

I wonder if during one of those hearings that an attachment of legal proceedings will be performed against his father's estate for his portion to freeze any distributions etc. Oh, a lien or injunction is the word I'm looking to?

ETA - Could we assume those are open to the general public, and depending on what is said more so in the trial, egads, the media might attend (or a guy with a device or someone else?)

December 5th should be after his trial and sentencing as iirc sentencing is done quickly after verdict in Colorado. Does anyone recall timeframes in that state for such?

 

[dkryder]

I wonder if during one of those hearings that an attachment of legal proceedings will be performed against his father's estate for his portion to freeze any distributions etc. Oh, a lien is the word I'm looking to?

i'm not a lawyer but i'd think a court would have to find in CB favor and then rule on a judgement before they could attach lien. MOO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Wouldn't he have to take the stand for that?

The defense during their case could bring up their witnesses to testify about conversations and evidence they want brought in to give reasonable doubt, and then follow up with outrageous claims during the closing (a la Casey Anthony case) to muddy the waters.

I'm sure that Dan May has prepared for such as the defense has shouted to the hills that they were going to do such.

Bring in CC and RS and SF to tell their *stories*. They could even bring some of the prosecution witnesses back that haven't been excused, e.g. iirc her mother.

"Isn't it so Mrs. B, that you only believed that they were engaged and he was her fiance because your daughter wanted you to know such because of your religion, wherein they actually never were engaged and she was........" etc. etc. etc. Shaming folks all along the way.

Then again, we are talking about a public defender in this case, and I wouldn't expect such shenanigans with public defenders as those actions are usually done by high powered/high cost criminal attys.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Well, on a good note. The baby now is 2. She's probably the cutest thing. Every single day toddlers do and say such cute things because of their lack of understanding, and it can be really hilarious! The child is totally oblivious to how cute they are... which adds to the humor.
There will be temper fits, yes, temperatures, and she'll need constant supervision as she'll want to get into everything you don't want her to get into. But the B's days will be filled...very filled.
When grandparents raise a gchild it does feel a lot like being a parent all over again. And since it's been a long time, that makes you ready to enjoy a baby again. You know..the famous Grandma club. There's two of the B's so that'll help as well. And if the grandparent's health is good, all should go well. Real Well.
I certainly hope the baby can help with all the pain of the loss of their daughter. I can't imagine that part.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Do we know if the LE checked his truck for blood at the driver side at least? The blood marks in the apt were stated to be with a slotted sole pattern. And if he changed boots on the porch after returning home to Tksgvg dinner...there must be blood in his truck cab floor.

Pretty sure that was detailed out, at the Body shop of his buddy RS,but we shall see.
MOO

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

BBM

Good Lord. That's just creepy.

I had a neighbor who was killed in a car accident and her daughter got pieces of the wreck and made a shadow box with them. I s**t you not.

Some people grieve differently. That's her very last connection to her Mom she has. So sad.
MOO

 

[Seattle1]

Thank you for correcting my misinformation

I should have double checked this one vs my memory.

Brings up an interesting point with the Board of Medicine and censorship of her license. I will check the BOM to see why/how she retained a license.

MOO

Good morning @Simply Southern -- I researched this before and Idaho is not black and white. I believe no action here until conviction on the record (December 2019), and whether she retains valid license is a case by case decision!

It's also a problem that KK was only charged with tampering with evidence which on paper does not represent the true nature of her character or her threat to the health and safety of the public.

Criminal history is evaluated on a case‐by‐case basis with consideration given to the type and context of the crime(s) and the applicant’s demonstrated behavior following the commission of the crime(s)....

[...]

Unlike some state boards of nursing, the Idaho Board has not identified ‘absolute bars’ to licensure or certification. However, evidence of any significant threat to the health or safety of the public will likely result in denial of an application....

https://ibn.idaho.gov/IBNPortal/IBN/PUBLICATIONS/Criminal Background FAQ.pdf

 

[dixiegirl1035]

i'm not a lawyer but i'd think a court would have to find in CB favor and then rule on a judgement before they could attach lien. MOO

IANAL either, but my brain is telling me I have seen that in another case, where they did such but I cannot recall. Something about an injunction/hold, awaiting a future decision. Perhaps it wasn't a criminal case, but I do believe injunctions can be done in civil. Perhaps @gitana1 would know?

 

[enelram]

Do we know when Patrick’s parents divorced? Was he very young at the time? Maybe both parents were abusive to him and then after the divorce SF had to work full-time leaving PF to fend for himself?

JMO

I believe we narrowed it down to PF being 9-10
yrs. old when the parents divorced.
But remember sometimes household discord can precede a divorce by many years. As can separation in/from the family.
My guess is PF lived with unhappy parents for
much of his young life. Sometimes parents are so busy with problems and issues in their own lives that they don't have time or energy for a young child.

 

[Seattle1]

I think there is a civil suit correct? If not I hope so and I hope CB takes the franch.
SF needs to be called to the stand..and anything she says can be used in the civil suit is that not correct?

^^sbm

I see no chance of SF ever losing her ranch to CB. The civil suit is against PF and he is not the owner of the franch. As far as we've been able to determine, PF leased grazing land and the only asset he ever owned were a few head of cattle that were sold at auction as soon as he went to the pokey.

 

[enelram]

Some people grieve differently. That's her very last connection to her Mom she has. So sad.
MOO

about grieving differently... it's not unusual in my horse world that many females keep a shock
of the horse's tail hair as a remembrance of their
departed buddy. Some even have bracelets made as braided horse hair jewelry. To each his own, I guess.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

BBM

Good Lord. That's just creepy.

I had a neighbor who was killed in a car accident and her daughter got pieces of the wreck and made a shadow box with them. I s**t you not.

You just never know what folks find sentimental and normal to them in a stage of grief that they want to carry forward.

From my fathers funeral, a woman made 4 (yes 4!) twin bed comforters that are made out of so many different colored strips of the silk ribbons that came wrapped around and within the displays of all the flowers for the funeral (This was back in the mid 60's when folks sent lots and LOTS of flowers to funerals for well known folks in the community)

Anyhow, it may sound VERY strange to everyone here to have a silk comforter from ribbons of flower arrangements from a funeral etc., but it is very calming and sentimental to me after more than gosh.... over 50 years ago! And it looks new still!

(And no, it's not on a bed)

 

[zea mays]

Thank you for correcting my misinformation

I should have double checked this one vs my memory.

Brings up an interesting point with the Board of Medicine and censorship of her license. I will check the BOM to see why/how she retained a license.

MOO

You should contact the Idaho Board of Nursing since that's who regulates nursing licenses, not medicine.

Good morning @Simply Southern -- I researched this before and Idaho is not black and white. I believe no action here until conviction on the record (December 2019), and whether she retains valid license is a case by case decision!

It's also a problem that KK was only charged with tampering with evidence which on paper does not represent the true nature of her character or her threat to the health and safety of the public.

Criminal history is evaluated on a case‐by‐case basis with consideration given to the type and context of the crime(s) and the applicant’s demonstrated behavior following the commission of the crime(s)....

[...]

Unlike some state boards of nursing, the Idaho Board has not identified ‘absolute bars’ to licensure or certification. However, evidence of any significant threat to the health or safety of the public will likely result in denial of an application....

https://ibn.idaho.gov/IBNPortal/IBN/PUBLICATIONS/Criminal Background FAQ.pdf

Yep. We had lots of conversation about this early on. I have no doubt that she will lose her license after she is sentenced and her case is considered fully adjudicated. It makes sense because, while she's pled guilty to the one charge, that could change if she doesn't cooperate. It won't be automatic, but the board will get notification (most likely from the DA's office) and they will follow their procedures. BON actions typically take some time - they may already be internally watching the case - we don't know.

From the link above:

However, evidence of any significant threat to the health or safety of the public will likely result in Board denial of an application. Such evidence may include, but is not limited to:

• Multiple or repeat criminal violations or patterns of similar/related offenses
• Criminal mistreatment of children or vulnerable adults
• Murder, felonious assault, kidnapping, rape or other crimes of violence against persons
• Demonstrated lack of rehabilitation or rehabilitation potential

Though KK hasn't been charged with any of those specific crimes in the case, the crime does certainly touch very close to these things.

ETA: The nice thing about the ID BON not having specific charge requirements is that the BON will be able to look at all the things she admitted to - not just the things she actually pled guilty to. For example, conspiracy to commit murder x3.

I know @Simply Southern has stated they believe KK will just not renew, which some people may do, I don't believe that date will be soon enough for that to be an option for KK. Her license is valid until 8/31/21 according to Nursys. MOO, of course.

 

[Seattle1]

Wonder what happened to that metal pipe KK was supposed to kill Kelsey with.

She returned it to the gate of the franch, and SF reportedly found it and asked PF about it. It's one of the things DA May said he wants to question SF about. This came out at the preliminary hearing last February.

 

[1mtroyal]

Pretty sure that was detailed out, at the Body shop of his buddy RS,but we shall see.
MOO

I am still wondering about the blood on the mop at PFs. Certainly he did not take the mop to the crime scene. Maybe he took a mop to the place he changed his boots on the deck or cab of his pickup, or used the mop to clean his boots. Or maybe the blood was not Kelsey's. And wasn't there blood on his bleach bottle? I am sure I heard the two of them owned a horse together. (IMO).