CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #63

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #221
Evidence of what? I think the defense destroyed KK's credibility on cross-examination. There has been no forensic evidence to support KK's claim the murder took place at the condo, that the murder weapon was a ball bat and that that the tooth was a human tooth and that it belonged to KB. That's the burden that the DA has to meet. I'm not even sure when the fire took place. The testimony from the ranch hands was vague about the specific date. For all I know, since they testified they placed the wood pallets in the rusted trough prior to Thanksgiving, PF may have started it the night of Thanksgiving or the day after.

That fire was in the works prior to Thanksgiving and KB was still very much alive. Ritchie testified the rusted horse trough was moved and the wooden palates placed inside of it before Thanksgiving. To me, it doesn't prove the purpose was to burn a body that wasn't dead yet.

There has been testimony that the DA provided KK with "bullet points" prior to her testimony. She also has embellished details she hadn't shared with LE previously. This woman is obsessed, delusional and there is no evidence at all that she has told the truth about anything at all.

Stiegerwald had Kenney admit she lied to the FBI the first time and noted again that she claimed she wanted to be caught. She testified that when agents came to her house, she said she would cooperate but said she did not tell them about any of the clues.

He again noted that the first time she talked to law enforcement was after she received the plea agreement and a letter and bullet points outlining what she needed to talk about, which she confirmed.


Stiegerwald then began to question her about things she testified about Wednesday and Thursday which he claimed was the first time she had discussed such matters.

She said that the story about Frazee fantasizing about having a son around with her was the first time she had told that story. She also said that she first told the story about giving Frazee a stuffed animal for Kaylee in court Wednesday and said she never told either story to law enforcement.

Stiegerwald asked if when she said that Frazee “wasn’t as excited as she hoped” about their unborn child, if she meant that Frazee was implying she should have an abortion, to which she responded she did not.
Kenney said she has told the truth for the past year, to which Stiegerwald ended his cross-examination:“For the past 10 hours, you’re telling the truth. And it just so happens to be what you needed to say to stay out of prison."

JMO

Frazee trial: Defense asks why Kenney didn't alert authorities

I started to read this post and had to stop and go have a cigarette. I've returned and read it all and have some questions.

Do you personally know or have you ever had encounters/dealings/acquaintance with either Patrick Frazee or Krystal Kenney?

Do you believe Kelsey is dead?

Do you believe that PF killed Kelsey? If not, do you think KK did?

If you don't think there was a fire (THE fire), what do think the plastic crust under the fresh soil was?

I'll skip the tooth fragment because we'll finding out about that soon.

Kelsey's blood around her townhouse is forensic evidence. Do you think someone went in there and scattered her blood around or that Kelsey got hurt and bled all over her walls, oven, fireplace, bathroom ceiling, towel bar, door hinges, toilet, bathtub and fireplace, etc?

What do you make of PF being on camera 11 times, at her place, when he claims to have been there only once to pick up Baby K, and her never being seen again after that?

How about her phone, traveling with his, while he's making fake calls to her?

I'm tired and that's about all I can think to ask ATM but am being sincere to try and figure out where you're coming from and exactly what you think may have happened.
 
  • #222
  • #223
You are welcome to come over and join the conversation at any time! Not much going on at the moment though unfortunately.
MOO
I've been there! Many times. I've noticed the DA is taking it slow. So far, no murder charges and no sweet deal for the girlfriend!

JMO
 
  • #224
I've been there! Many times. I've noticed the DA is taking it slow. So far, no murder charges and no sweet deal for the girlfriend!

JMO
That’s what happens when a cooperating witness doesn’t give you the case on a silver platter.

Things that have been corroborated over and over in the first week of testimony.
 
  • #225
I've been there! Many times. I've noticed the DA is taking it slow. So far, no murder charges and no sweet deal for the girlfriend!

JMO
Yes, it is a VERY S L O W moving case in CT. No murder charges and no deal for the Mistress either. But stay tuned as if there is a mistress that might make KK look like a choir girl it just might be MT IMO. There are many similarities between the mistresses in these cases but I'm not sure the State of CT needs MT in the same way that KK was critical to the Prosecution IMO so I doubt the sweetheart deal that KK got that seems to be upsetting you will be seen there (but never say never which is why we are following the case).

I'm curious, do you really believe KK killed KB? I keep staring at the timeline and just can't piece together how she might have pulled it off. What do you think?

MOO
 
  • #226
  • #227
<modsnipped no link to msm article and copyright violation>
--------------------------------

Circumstantial evidence:
Fingerprint evidence, videotapes, sound recordings, photographs, and many other examples of physical evidence that support the drawing of an inference, i.e., circumstantial evidence, are considered very strong possible
evidence.
***********************************

Bam! Now wait for forensics to testify!

We still have 60+ witnesses to testify yet. There was originally 257+ pieces of evidence.

Who said it again? It an't over till the fat lady sings!

 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #228
^^sbm

When Investigators took KK to the franch to tour the location of the fire, one of the Investigators body cam recorded KK saying that she saw SF come out to the deck when the bonfire flames were towering.

KK also stated that she saw the ranch hands doing chores (moving the trough) at the franch the evening of the fire. Between SF2 and KK --they identified the ranch hands and LE interviewed them on 12/31/19.

(SF2 saw the ranch hands with PF when they went to scrap yard to dispose of the trough).

I don't recall any report or testimony that the ranch hands saw SF on the deck. MOO

BBM

Thank you and I now recall reading that. So they or, at least Kyle, saw the fire, just as Kyle's testimony seems to indicate.

Sheesh. I hate not having this trial recorded or televised.
 
  • #229
Investigators found a partial tooth in the dirt next to an area of melted plastic where prosecutors’ key witness said Patrick Frazee burned the body of his fiancé, Kelsey Berreth, after he killed her.

But at the end of Friday’s testimony it remained unclear whether the tooth belonged to the 29-year-old instructor pilot. Upcoming testimony will give more information on the tooth fragment. If it is Berreth’s tooth, it is the only known remain of the Woodland Park mother, whose 2018 disappearance drew national attention to the rural ranchlands of Teller County.

The tooth and excavation of the burn area were part of prosecutors’ effort on Friday to corroborate the account told by their key witness, Krystal Lee Kenney. The Idaho nurse testified over two days that she cleaned up a bloody crime scene and helped Frazee burn Berreth’s body after the Florissant rancher bludgeoned his fiancé to death with a bat on Thanksgiving Day.

Testimony on Friday also showed the breadth of the investigation into the Woodland Park mother’s disappearance and alleged murder by her fiancé. Prosecutors called in Kenney’s father as well as a Woodland Park Sonic Drive In manager who helped investigators find video of Kenney at the fast food restaurant, and the man who runs security at the Idaho hospital where Kenney worked. Some of the witnesses’ testimony lasted less than five minutes.

The wide net of the investigation also entangled a longtime friend of Frazee, Joseph Moore, who said he knew Frazee since he was a boy and considered him like a stepson.

But Moore testified that Frazee in April 2018 made a comment that he had “figured out a way” to kill Berreth. Moore reacted in shock, he said, but Frazee didn’t take the comment back.

“He said, ‘No body, no crime’” Moore testified.

Six days after Thanksgiving but before Berreth was reported missing, Moore had a conversation with Frazee during which Frazee worried about having Kelsey Berreth’s blood on his clothes. Frazee said the blood was from a nosebleed Berreth had. He was worried after it had been washed if it would show traces of blood.

On Dec. 20, Moore said he had another conversation with Frazee, in which Frazee expressed shock that Berreth’s disappearance had attracted national attention.

“Then he said, ‘Man, if I had known it was going to blow up this big I never would have…’” Moore said. “Then he trailed off.”

Moore said he contacted both Frazee’s attorney and the police about the call.
Moore was the one who handled the forklift to place Radar on the hay bails. After this incident PF called Moore about any disturbance out at Nash. Unknown to PF Moore was already involved with LE and made another call after this jail call.


Moore is only the second person close to Frazee who has been called to testify thus far and became emotional while describing their relationship.

You don’t want to picture someone you’ve known so long and have trusted,” Moore said, tears in his eyes. “You don’t want to think they could have done something like this.”

Many of the other witnesses gave testimony that corroborated Kenney’s account.

Kenney’s father, Sidney Dustin Kenney, corroborated his daughter’s story that she was at her Idaho home on Thanksgiving Day – the day Frazee allegedly killed Berreth.

Sidney Kenney spoke softly on the stand and said he was nervous. He described his oldest daughter as a people pleaser who was good at anything she put her mind to.

“I remember that she was really soft-hearted,” he said.

Security camera footage showed Kenney at a Woodland Park Sonic Drive-In on Nov. 24, the day she said she cleaned Berreth’s condo of blood. Images from a gas station showed Kenney and Frazee’s vehicles moving in and out of the parking lot, consistent with what Kenney told investigators, a Colorado Bureau of Investigation agent testified. The footage also showed Frazee filling a large red gas can on Nov. 24, the day Kenney said he used gas to fuel the fire that destroyed Berreth’s body.

On at least two occasions during the investigation, law enforcement brought dogs trained to detect the smell of decomposing human bodies to scenes involved in the case.

On Dec. 4, two days after Berreth’s mother reported her missing, a cadaver dog swept Berreth’s condo. While the dog alerted to a pair of dirty underwear in the bathroom, it did not alert anywhere else in the house, which Kenney said had been covered in blood a week prior.

But the dog’s handler, Brian Eberle, said it’s possible the blood wasn’t old enough yet to register as decomposed to the dog’s nose. The dog, Lucy, also alerted to the back bumper of Berreth’s car parked in the driveway – approximately the same spot where Kenney testified she placed bags of bloody items from the home while locking up the condo.

As described up above, another dog handler, Frank Hurst, and his bloodhound visited the Teller County ranch where Kenney said Frazee hid Berreth’s body in a plastic box. Although the dog searched the ranch’s barn on February 13 – more than two months after the body was allegedly moved from the area – his dog alerted to a hay bale with black stains.
--------------------------------

Circumstantial evidence:
Fingerprint evidence, videotapes, sound recordings, photographs, and many other examples of physical evidence that support the drawing of an inference, i.e., circumstantial evidence, are considered very strong possible
evidence.
***********************************

Bam! Now wait for forensics to testify!

We still have 60+ witnesses to testify yet. There was originally 257+ pieces of evidence.

Who said it again? It an't over till the fat lady sings!
It’s amazing when you see the evidence presented like that. Just a staggering amount.
 
  • #230
Yes, it is a VERY S L O W moving case in CT. No murder charges and no deal for the Mistress either. But stay tuned as if there is a mistress that might make KK look like a choir girl it just might be MT IMO. There are many similarities between the mistresses in these cases but I'm not sure the State of CT needs MT in the same way that KK was critical to the Prosecution IMO so I doubt the sweetheart deal that KK got that seems to be upsetting you will be seen there (but never say never which is why we are following the case).

I'm curious, do you really believe KK killed KB? I keep staring at the timeline and just can't piece together how she might have pulled it off. What do you think?

MOO
I think a third party is involved and is tied to PF. I think KK's drugs incapacitated KB and that is why KK is so desperate to paint PF as the murderer with a ball bat in the condo. She feared losing her job. Which she lost. She's likely going to lose her children.

Yet not one shred of evidence that a ball bat was used or that the murder took place there. KK is a sick, obsessive liar trying to save her own hide. Not once in her testimony did she even mention her children or trying to protect them from PF after she claimed he made threats. What kind of mother does that? It's because PF never went to ID and never threatened her children.

JMO
 
  • #231
I think a third party is involved and is tied to PF. I think KK's drugs incapacitated KB and that is why KK is so desperate to paint PF as the murderer with a ball bat in the condo. She feared losing her job. Which she lost. She's likely going to lose her children.

Yet not one shred of evidence that a ball bat was used or that the murder took place there. KK is a sick, obsessive liar trying to save her own hide. Not once in her testimony did she even mention her children or trying to protect them from PF after she claimed he made threats. What kind of mother does that? It's because PF never went to ID and never threatened her children.

JMO

Blood in the bathroom. Blood under the floorboards. Blood spatter behind cushions, and on the fireplace. That’s more than a “shred.”

And we still haven’t heard the details regarding the forensics.

The prosecution’s theory of the crime has been supported every step of the way, by actual evidence.

Your theory is not only not based on evidence, but it is diametrically opposed to it. There is absolutely nothing that supports the third party theory.

It is based on emotion, and not on logic. This isn’t a novel that you just make up as you go.

That’s not how it works.
 
  • #232
Court has been ongoing now for a week and testimony has been heard from a number of witnesses including KK that refute any number of the statements you have made in your OP. Many more witnesses have yet to be called and no doubt there will be much further discussion about the tooth that you referenced in your post. My recollection was that back in June that the Court approved DNA test of the "Possible Tooth Fragment" by the CBI subject to supervision by the Defense.

Testing of 'possible tooth fragment' in Kelsey Berreth case


MOO
Please cite the witnesses that refute "any number of statements" I've made. My opinion IS based on the testimony I've linked. iirc, there was no testimony this week that the tooth was conclusively human and that it belonged to KB. If I'm wrong, please provide links. Thanks.
 
  • #233
I think a third party is involved and is tied to PF. I think KK's drugs incapacitated KB and that is why KK is so desperate to paint PF as the murderer with a ball bat in the condo. She feared losing her job. Which she lost. She's likely going to lose her children.

Yet not one shred of evidence that a ball bat was used or that the murder took place there. KK is a sick, obsessive liar trying to save her own hide. Not once in her testimony did she even mention her children or trying to protect them from PF after she claimed he made threats. What kind of mother does that? It's because PF never went to ID and never threatened her children.

JMO

So then you are just going to avoid all the evidence that clearly points to KK being in Idaho on 11/22?

Or is it that KB lived until 11/24? (zero evidence of this). Why is KB's phone with PF's from 11/22-11/24 but he says they broke up on 11/22 and that is the last he saw her? How do you explain this?

What kind of drugs knock out teeth?

Why is KB's blood all over her condo? And yes, this has been testified as being there, so enough with "blood just in the bathroom."

Why was a human tooth found on PF's property. (exactly where multiple people testified there was a fire)

Why does every witness testimony align with what KK has told them?

I'm honestly trying to figure out how you would explain these things.
 
Last edited:
  • #234
Please cite the witnesses that refute "any number of statements" I've made. My opinion IS based on the testimony I've linked. iirc, there was no testimony this week that the tooth was conclusively human and that it belonged to KB. If I'm wrong, please provide links. Thanks.
"...no testimony this week that the tooth was conclusively human and that it belonged to KB."

This week? Don't put the cart before the horse. This trial is not over and no where close to being over.
 
  • #235
Please cite the witnesses that refute "any number of statements" I've made. My opinion IS based on the testimony I've linked. iirc, there was no testimony this week that the tooth was conclusively human and that it belonged to KB. If I'm wrong, please provide links. Thanks.
The tooth was just brought up for the first time this week and only in a general way. We have yet to hear from the CBI experts on what the findings are and whether they were able to get a DNA match on the tooth. But the article I posted explained the existence of the tooth, CBI analysis process and possible DNA testing and confirmed that the Defense would be present at the analysis as the tooth itself would be lost/consumed by the testing.
 
  • #236
So then you are just going to avoid all the evidence that clearly points to KK being in Idaho on 11/22?

Or is it that KB lived until 11/24? (zero evidence of this). Why is KB's phone with PF's from 11/22-11/24 but he says they broke up on 11/22 and that is the last he saw her? How do you explain this?

What kind of drugs knock out teeth?

Why is KB's blood all over her condo? And yes, this has been testified as being there, so enough with "blood just in the bathroom."

Why was a human tooth found on PF's property.

Why does every witness testimony align with what KK has told them?

I'm honestly trying to figure out how you would explain these things.

BBM. A total of 5 teeth were found on PF's property, iirc. There's been no testimony the partial tooth found by the FBI agent was human or that it belonged to KB. If I am mistaken, please provide links.

imo, the witness testimony aligns with what KK said because she was coached by the DA and acknowledged in court that she received "bullet points."

I've seen no proof any of KB's teeth were knocked out. I've not seen any evidence that chemicals detected blood "all over KB's condo." The testimony was only about the bathroom area--a room KK testified she barely entered.

JMO
 
  • #237
So then you are just going to avoid all the evidence that clearly points to KK being in Idaho on 11/22?

Or is it that KB lived until 11/24? (zero evidence of this). Why is KB's phone with PF's from 11/22-11/24 but he says they broke up on 11/22 and that is the last he saw her? How do you explain this?

What kind of drugs knock out teeth?

Why is KB's blood all over her condo? And yes, this has been testified as being there, so enough with "blood just in the bathroom."

Why was a human tooth found on PF's property. (exactly where multiple people testified there was a fire)

Why does every witness testimony align with what KK has told them?

I'm honestly trying to figure out how you would explain these things.

It’s the equivalent of waking up one winter morning, looking out your window, and seeing several inches of snow.

Most people would see the snow on the ground, and conclude that it snowed overnight. This, despite not seeing snow falling down.

Apparently, that’s not enough for others, and they will conclude that not only is there no snow, but it must be beach weather.
 
  • #238
So then you are just going to avoid all the evidence that clearly points to KK being in Idaho on 11/22?

Or is it that KB lived until 11/24? (zero evidence of this). Why is KB's phone with PF's from 11/22-11/24 but he says they broke up on 11/22 and that is the last he saw her? How do you explain this?

What kind of drugs knock out teeth?

Why is KB's blood all over her condo? And yes, this has been testified as being there, so enough with "blood just in the bathroom."

Why was a human tooth found on PF's property. (exactly where multiple people testified there was a fire)

Why does every witness testimony align with what KK has told them?

I'm honestly trying to figure out how you would explain these things.

"Well, exactly."
 
Last edited:
  • #239
Investigators found a partial tooth in the dirt next to an area of melted plastic where prosecutors’ key witness said Patrick Frazee burned the body of his fiancé, Kelsey Berreth, after he killed her.

But at the end of Friday’s testimony it remained unclear whether the tooth belonged to the 29-year-old instructor pilot. Upcoming testimony will give more information on the tooth fragment. If it is Berreth’s tooth, it is the only known remain of the Woodland Park mother, whose 2018 disappearance drew national attention to the rural ranchlands of Teller County.

The tooth and excavation of the burn area were part of prosecutors’ effort on Friday to corroborate the account told by their key witness, Krystal Lee Kenney. The Idaho nurse testified over two days that she cleaned up a bloody crime scene and helped Frazee burn Berreth’s body after the Florissant rancher bludgeoned his fiancé to death with a bat on Thanksgiving Day.

Testimony on Friday also showed the breadth of the investigation into the Woodland Park mother’s disappearance and alleged murder by her fiancé. Prosecutors called in Kenney’s father as well as a Woodland Park Sonic Drive In manager who helped investigators find video of Kenney at the fast food restaurant, and the man who runs security at the Idaho hospital where Kenney worked. Some of the witnesses’ testimony lasted less than five minutes.

The wide net of the investigation also entangled a longtime friend of Frazee, Joseph Moore, who said he knew Frazee since he was a boy and considered him like a stepson.

But Moore testified that Frazee in April 2018 made a comment that he had “figured out a way” to kill Berreth. Moore reacted in shock, he said, but Frazee didn’t take the comment back.

“He said, ‘No body, no crime’” Moore testified.

Six days after Thanksgiving but before Berreth was reported missing, Moore had a conversation with Frazee during which Frazee worried about having Kelsey Berreth’s blood on his clothes. Frazee said the blood was from a nosebleed Berreth had. He was worried after it had been washed if it would show traces of blood.

On Dec. 20, Moore said he had another conversation with Frazee, in which Frazee expressed shock that Berreth’s disappearance had attracted national attention.

“Then he said, ‘Man, if I had known it was going to blow up this big I never would have…’” Moore said. “Then he trailed off.”

Moore said he contacted both Frazee’s attorney and the police about the call.
Moore was the one who handled the forklift to place Radar on the hay bails. After this incident PF called Moore about any disturbance out at Nash. Unknown to PF Moore was already involved with LE and made another call after this jail call.


Moore is only the second person close to Frazee who has been called to testify thus far and became emotional while describing their relationship.

You don’t want to picture someone you’ve known so long and have trusted,” Moore said, tears in his eyes. “You don’t want to think they could have done something like this.”

Many of the other witnesses gave testimony that corroborated Kenney’s account.

Kenney’s father, Sidney Dustin Kenney, corroborated his daughter’s story that she was at her Idaho home on Thanksgiving Day – the day Frazee allegedly killed Berreth.

Sidney Kenney spoke softly on the stand and said he was nervous. He described his oldest daughter as a people pleaser who was good at anything she put her mind to.

“I remember that she was really soft-hearted,” he said.

Security camera footage showed Kenney at a Woodland Park Sonic Drive-In on Nov. 24, the day she said she cleaned Berreth’s condo of blood. Images from a gas station showed Kenney and Frazee’s vehicles moving in and out of the parking lot, consistent with what Kenney told investigators, a Colorado Bureau of Investigation agent testified. The footage also showed Frazee filling a large red gas can on Nov. 24, the day Kenney said he used gas to fuel the fire that destroyed Berreth’s body.

On at least two occasions during the investigation, law enforcement brought dogs trained to detect the smell of decomposing human bodies to scenes involved in the case.

On Dec. 4, two days after Berreth’s mother reported her missing, a cadaver dog swept Berreth’s condo. While the dog alerted to a pair of dirty underwear in the bathroom, it did not alert anywhere else in the house, which Kenney said had been covered in blood a week prior.

But the dog’s handler, Brian Eberle, said it’s possible the blood wasn’t old enough yet to register as decomposed to the dog’s nose. The dog, Lucy, also alerted to the back bumper of Berreth’s car parked in the driveway – approximately the same spot where Kenney testified she placed bags of bloody items from the home while locking up the condo.

As described up above, another dog handler, Frank Hurst, and his bloodhound visited the Teller County ranch where Kenney said Frazee hid Berreth’s body in a plastic box. Although the dog searched the ranch’s barn on February 13 – more than two months after the body was allegedly moved from the area – his dog alerted to a hay bale with black stains.
--------------------------------

Circumstantial evidence:
Fingerprint evidence, videotapes, sound recordings, photographs, and many other examples of physical evidence that support the drawing of an inference, i.e., circumstantial evidence, are considered very strong possible
evidence.
***********************************

Bam! Now wait for forensics to testify!

We still have 60+ witnesses to testify yet. There was originally 257+ pieces of evidence.

Who said it again? It an't over till the fat lady sings!

Moore was the one who handled the forklift to place Radar on the hay bails. After this incident PF called Moore about any disturbance out at Nash. Unknown to PF Moore was already involved with LE and made another call after this jail call.

Wow, first I saw that.

So, once it really sunk in, he really got involved. Good for him and sorry he didn't want to believe it while Kelsey was still alive.
 
  • #240
BBM. A total of 5 teeth were found on PF's property, iirc. There's been no testimony the partial tooth found by the FBI agent was human or that it belonged to KB. If I am mistaken, please provide links.

imo, the witness testimony aligns with what KK said because she was coached by the DA and acknowledged in court that she received "bullet points."

I've seen no proof any of KB's teeth were knocked out. I've not seen any evidence that chemicals detected blood "all over KB's condo." The testimony was only about the bathroom area--a room KK testified she barely entered.

JMO
I'm not sure why the 'bullet points' issue is bothersome to you. Its not atypical when you are being asked to give extensive or complex testimony to organise the information in advance of trial.

KK had roughly 10 hrs of testimony over a wide range of topics so organising the information into bullet points makes sense IMO.

Atty's spend a lot of time with 'witness preparation' and its part of the process and I don't think there is anything nefarious about the process at all as it isn't as if some kind of 'script' was given to KK by the DA as you seem to imply in you OP. KK was a witness on the stand under oath.

MOO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
109
Guests online
2,525
Total visitors
2,634

Forum statistics

Threads
632,774
Messages
18,631,637
Members
243,292
Latest member
suspicious sims
Back
Top