CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #63

[katydid23]

You don't think it matters if the DA can't prove the murder weapon? I disagree. There also has been no forensic evidence that the condo was a crime scene.

I also disagree that KK was afraid of PF. There is no evidence she was afraid of him and plenty of evidence she was not. I also doubt the DA cares if the jury believes KK. I think he wants her locked up just as tight as PF will be.

JMO

There are plenty of cases where the defendant was found GUILTY, even when the murder weapon was not found. Not every killer is stupid enough to leave the weapon lying around.

The forensic evidence includes blood on the sofa cushions, fireplace and under the floorboards. How do you explain that if there was no violence at the scene?

 

[PommyMommy]

NOV 11, 2019
Preparing for week two of the Patrick Frazee murder trial
Testimony is expected to move forward Tuesday, in the murder trial of Patrick Frazee at the Teller County Courthouse in Cripple Creek.

[...]

Over the past week, a slew of witnesses took the stand, most notably Berreth’s mother and older brother, Frazee’s brother, Kenney, cadaver dog handlers, Special Agents with the FBI, and Frazee’s long-time friend.

[...]

Jurors were also shown surveillance videos from a gas station in Florissant... This particular video showed Frazee filling up a gas can on November 24, which matches what Kenney’s earlier testimony.

Two cadaver dog handlers said their dogs made positive hits of decomposing human scent, which could include blood – one at Nash Ranch in Westcliffe, again near one of Berreth’s vehicles outside her Woodland Park home, and once more in her bathroom.

Two teenagers who worked for Frazee said he told them to put wooden pallets in an old trough, then after Thanksgiving, asked them to take the burned remnants inside the trough to a dump.

[...]

Frazee’s long-time friend, Joe Moore, said that before Berreth went missing Frazee told him that “he had found a way to kill her… no body, no crime.”

[...]

Court will resume Tuesday with Frazee’s long-time Friend Joe Moore returning to the stand.

The trial is expected to last at least two more weeks. ...

 

[dixiegirl1035]

@scdiv did a paraphrased transcript in multiple posts of Sam last night THANKS!, and these are the questions and answers that he had at the end. PART ONE OF TWO, I'll be back with second half in a bit. Sam Kraemer TV

Was KK's car that she drove to ID checked by cadaver dogs
Not covered yet if they have

Have they tested the tooth.
Early on, they made out that it was pivotal, but then downplayed.

How many exhibits do they have
Close to 670

When did Joe Moore call police
After call in February he called PF's atty (a poster reminded him he also called police, and Sam said he was working off others notes)

How did PF get KB's body out of condo
Prosecution says in the black tote and his truck

Is there a list of witnesses published
No, there is a gag order so all we can glean is listening to them in court

What do you think about the defense, are they being lazy
I always think they have something up their sleeve. They are being direct at what they cast doubt on. e.g. AS (defense atty) was extremely direct in his hour of cross of KK that she testified to that she didn't bring up on Dec 20 & 21st, that she didn't tell family and friends what was going on

Was excercise ball burned
I'm not sure. KK deflated and put in trash, so assume, but nothing heard verbatim

Any timestamp of KB entering after Safeway with poinsettia
He'll dig into notes later, not sure

Was tote big enough to fit body
He thinks yes, you could fit 5'3" 100 lb KB in tote

Why were bodily fluids on hay if body was in tote
He hasn't seen result yet, but thinks the idea would be that she was bloody and some of that blood seeped out

What about the missing bullet
Megan told police it was missing, but hasn't been brought up in court yet

KB have a garage
No

Was there any discussion that KK was awake for 48 hours
No, many things re adrenaline, and little nap at PF's

Do you know if they found a picture of KB that he said he had (re liquor/baby car)
Don't think we know that yet

Did KK through keys in Gorge
No, I don't think so, I'll have to look. She burned some evidence. She pinged phone near the Gorge.

What are your thoughts on not making KK an alternate suspect and only making holes in her testimony
He talked to lawyers about this. They chose general denial defense vs. alternate suspect defense. Reason to do that as it gives more options for the defense. With an alternate suspect defense, you are saying you have proof that the other person did it, vs. PF not being guilty. You have a lot more to work with and a lot more options. With general denial, they are going after her credibility and her story with holes. From a lawyers point of view, that's the smarter play as you aren't narrowing your options, you are expanding them. You are keeping as wide as you can.

 

[PommyMommy]

NOV 11, 2019
What cellphone data showed investigators in the Kelsey Berreth murder case
[…]

While investigators relied on Krystal Lee to bring them to what she said was the scene of the crime, data from Verizon towers helped law enforcement corroborate her assertions that Frazee was not being entirely truthful about his timeline of events — and placed him at the ranch where he’s accused of storing his fiancee’s body.

Berreth was last seen alive entering her two-story Woodland Park condo via a neighbor’s surveillance camera during the lunch hour on Nov. 22, 2018 — Thanksgiving Day. Frazee told police that his last interaction with Berreth was that morning, when he alleged that the pair exchanged custody of their daughter before going their separate ways.

Surveillance video shows Frazee leaving Berreth’s condo as late as 4:30 p.m. that evening. Berreth, meanwhile, would never been seen walking out of her home again. Nevertheless, her phone would be tracked throughout Teller County in the ensuing days, before ending its journey in Idaho on Nov. 25, 2018.

This is according to testimony from FBI Special Agent Kevin Hoyland, who was asked to analyze the records for the phones that belonged to Berreth, Frazee and Lee.

[…]

The last successful outgoing phone call investigators believe Berreth ever made was at 12:33 p.m. on Nov. 22. Her phone didn’t have any activity that day, and tower data indicated she was in Woodland Park, according to Hoyland.

Hoyland said at about 4:24 p.m., Frazee’s phone utilized the tower in Woodland Park, and then a different tower in the area at about 4:37 p.m., indicating that he was moving from one place to another. During this same time, Berreth’s phone was tracked to these same towers.

[…]

Later that night — at about 10 p.m. — Hoyland said both Berreth and Frazee’s phones were tracked heading west from the Cripple Creek tower to the Nash Ranch tower. Later that night, Hoyland said it appeared the two phones returned back to Florissant the way they came.

[…]

At about 11:30 p.m., Frazee called Lee, Hoyland said. That call lasted for nearly an hour.

At 7:21 a.m. on Nov. 23, Hoyland said Frazee’s phone called Berreth’s phone. The call was answered, and Hoyland said both phones were utilizing the same sector of the same cellphone tower — indicating they were likely together.

[...]

Frazee called Lee on his landline at 9:33 a.m. that morning, Hoyland said. Verizon records indicate that she was still in Idaho.

[...]

Hoyland said her phone left Idaho at 6:30 p.m. on Nov. 23, 2018 — and that her device arrived in Woodland Park at about 6:30 a.m. the next morning.

[...]

That afternoon, Lee told police that she went to Frazee’s home in Florissant and went with him to the Nash Ranch, where she claims he picked up Berreth’s body. The night of Nov. 24, 2018, Lee said Frazee burned a black tote containing Berreth’s body as well as numerous trash bags that contained bloody items from her condo.

Afterward, Lee said she drove through the night back to Idaho. According to Hoyland, her phone left Florissant at about 7:30 p.m. on Nov. 24 and arrived in Idaho at about 10:30 a.m. on Nov. 25.

[…]

... Hoyland is still on subpoena, and is expected to be called to the stand once again to discuss where cellphone tower data indicates Lee’s phone was while she was in Colorado.

[…]

 

[PommyMommy]

NOV 11, 2019
Defense attorney lays out key evidence in Frazee trial
[...]

Court will resume on Tuesday and as the state begins wrapping up its case, a Denver defense attorney, watching the case closely, broke down the evidence he believes the entire case hinges on.

[...]

Beller said the evidence is mounting against Frazee.

"They've uncovered a lot of really damning corroborating information, damning for Mr. Frazee," he said.

[...]

"A jury is really going to look at all of Frazee's conduct," Beller said. "Certainly, the statements that he made to his friend. At least as the government has painted it, is cold-hearted and not consistent with somebody who's innocent."

[...]

"Mr. Frazee's murder trial really turns on the testimony of Mrs. Kenney," he said.

[...]

"The question here is, they might not like her but is she believable -- her story is to be believed," Beller said.

[...]

Beller said the state has been doing a good job corroborating Kenney's story with circumstantial evidence like cell phone records and surveillance video.

[...]

"There's nothing that requires the defense to present their own theory, but certainly a jury in order to find him not guilty is going to be looking for one," Beller said.

[...]

Frazee's attorneys will get their opportunity to question his friend and fellow rancher first thing Tuesday.

[...]

The state is expected to rest its case sometime this week, with the defense up next to lay out its arguments for why Frazee is innocent. ...

[...]

 

[dixiegirl1035]

PART TWO OF TWO, Sam's FB live last night Sam Kraemer TV

What day and time did the ranch hands say that they helped with the galvanized trash can
They did not know date or time, just that it was the week after T'giving

Was PF offered a plea deal
I'm not aware of. They thought of the death penalty. Sometimes used as a way to leverage to help find the body. DA and atty general in CO decided not to go with death penalty because case wasn't strong enough, which Sam thought was interesting looking at some of the criteria, he thought it met most of the criteria.

Where did KK throw the bags of trash at
She kept them in the car, then to PF house and threw in fire

What made them know KB was dead as they didn't have much luck with luminol in her condo
On basis of blood found later, phone taken which both based what KK said

Will PF testify
Not common, he can, but he doesn't see happening based on Moore's testimony he doesn't like attn and wouldn't want cross.

Will SF testify
She's on the list, she pleaded 5th on feb 19th, Dan May said she witnessed fire.. I don't see her wanting to have that attention and cross examination and testifying against her son, so I don't see that happening (E.D. comment....but it's not up to her and her wants Sam!)

When they did security stills, did they see bat
No, in KK testimony that PF said he put it under sweater under his arm when he went in so wouldn't probably show up on camera due to vantage point

What are your feelings on the prosecution case so far
I'm not going to comment on who is winning or which way the scales of justice are tilting. I think after so much of this case, as it was under seal e.g. photos and evidence, it's incredible how much circumstantial evidence they have. When they don't have the body, your circumstantial evidence has to be really strong. And they have a whole lot of people, upwards of 60 more still to testify. So it seems like they have a lot, and done a whole lot of work in the past year

How come SF isn't being charged
I don't know, they don't have proof of her doing anything. If DM says she saw fire, doesn't mean anything she knew

Have they done a cadaver dog on his red Toyota
I know they towed to evidence bay, not sure of dogs. He'll ask

Could someone have come in through the back window.
No, there are only two or three windows. There is not a back window to the street. There is a side window that KK put a towel over to cover and one front window toward the driveway. I'm not sure if the windows are even capable of opening that far, they made clear only entrance front door

How is PF holding up
He's always been stoic in court. Sometimes he takes notes, and sometimes pays close attn, like videos, and sometimes he stares down e.g. when KK talked about his child, and how she had an abortion, he stared her down during the entire time of that part of the testimony. You are sitting there pondering your fate for the rest of his life. He was also sick Thurs am. Stoic since arrest mostly.

Plan on update same time FB live tomorrow (today now) and through the rest of the week. He'll do twitters and FB live about 8 or 8:30 after his broadcast obligations. He'll know better today as to what time and let us know.

He ended with If you have any questions, please reach out to him on whatever social platform, and see y'all later....

 

[dkryder]

1. Where is the evidence as to when, date and time, KB left the condo?

2. Is the baby dead? It is fact not in dispute that PF picked up the child. Was PF seen going in and out of the condo with the child on Nov. 22? I missed it. Please link.

3. The tote was seen in PF's truck. Never seen going in or out of the condo, ever.

4. Blood WAS found on the toilet and other places in the bathroom. So was the DNA from an unknown male. How, exactly is that proof PF was the killer?

5. Kelsey's family did see wipe marks in an area that had been extensively tested as a crime scene by LE. Those wipe marks were there when LE processed the crime scene and they didn't notice. How do wipe marks point to PF's guilt of murder?

6. Kelsey's phone did travel according to LE. But in a rural region with few cell towers, that isn't proof the phone was in the hands of PF or that KB was dead at that point. How is that evidence she was dead at that point? I do believe there was at least one 310 second call exchanged between KB and PF. Please provide proof she was dead at that time or that a third-party didn't have control of her phone at that time.

7. KK did testify she cleaned up a large amount of blood. She also testified she left clues for LE yet she didn't mention those clues to the FBI when they questioned her and K-9 animals didn't pick up on the evidence inside the living room.

You seem confident that there will be independent of evidence of blood spatter, etc., presented at trial. That's great but I'm still waiting for it before I pass judgment. I guess I'm just a silly American who believes in the right to due process and a fair trial.

JMO

no, it is not silly to believe in due process and a fair trial. i have not read any posts that suggest it is silly. so you referring to yourself as silly for believing that is an interesting look at your perspective. i just think a lot of your questions have been answered by evidence in the record.

 

[justaparent]

BBM:

To clarify my position re: KK.
I don't want to, nor have I, "excused" KK.
I've been expressly clear in my condemnation of KK's actions and inactions r/t KB's murder.

I've made literally dozens of posts in the past blasting KK for her reprehensible actions.
I've stated repeatedly that she's a vile human being.
I have never made excuses for KK, because what she did (and didn't do) is inexcusable.

Having said that, my focus right now is entirely on PF, and when I say entirely, I mean, 100% of my focus is on PF.

The minute that sweetie beauty of a deal with KK was inked, it made no sense to me to dwell on her role and/or her culpability, because quite frankly, in practical terms, it doesn't matter what I think of her. In practical terms, it doesn't matter what any of us think of her, or believe about her, or what punishment we wish she would receive.

A deal's a deal....
And it's a done deal.

It's really just about being pragmatical.
The person who murdered KB with a baseball bat needs to be brought to justice.
PF needs to be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

KK is a side piece in every sense of the word.
Since she gave her testimony, I haven't given KK a second thought.
I don't care about KK.
But the fact that I don't choose to focus on KK, and that I don't care about her at this point, in no way means I or others who choose not to expend our energies on thinking about or talking about the side piece, excuse her.

Again, to be clear: Nobody here excuses KK.

JMO.

Exactly.

Every. Single. Word.

PF is on trial. KK is a done deal for the purposes of the current trial. Compelling evidence of HIS guilt HAS been (and continues to be) presented.

It’s one thing to have an opinion about someone or a series of events, we all do, but to blindly ignore the evidence, as some seem to do, is (to me) a baffling mindset.

JMO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

A new thought for the day which I don't recall being discussed previously.

On Sam's main broadcast last night, he was talking about the three bats found at the PF ranch by LE resulting from the warrant.

Sam noted that many people that are rural have bats or guns for protections. Note: He said each one was by a SPECIFIED door iirc, or at least 2 of the 3 were and one, the third, was in kitchen...did that have a door to outside?

I wonder if when PF got KB's gun a while back, that he then gifted her a bat like he had bats at his door for protection to put by the inside of her door.

"Hey KB, you need to have the same protection at your house we do, here is a bat for you to put in your condo"

And that goes to why KB told her mom she felt safer. (because before, all that she had was a bat?) When was the last time that someone was in her house other than PF that would know such. Are they going to be on the witness list? (and if someone wants to say that would prove KK was lying about the bat/sweater, remember, she's espousing what PF said to her)

And yes, that doesn't go with what KK said about the bat being under a sweater when he entered, but she perhaps was merely relaying what PF said.

I don't recall any testimony yet on why PF had KB's gun yet in the trial, only the Arrest affidavit. Hmmmm, Does anyone else recall testimony to date re the issue of PF taking KB's gun, and then returning it being discussed?

Sam was right, the gag order sure has made this trial jaw dropping each day as we only have had the AA to go on and the prelim.

ETA - I haven't read the AA in a while, so I'm going to go back to see if I can glean more now that we've heard the first 6 days of testimony https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...lication and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf

 

[osu]

Here's the part that I don't get...WHY bother going and giving KB the drink, if she wasn't going to add the poison? What was the point of going and talking to her, at all?

Did they cross examine her on that issue?

KK’s answer during cross why she took the caramel macchiato to Kelsey.

“He had her note that she first came to Colorado in September 2018 after making the coffee-poisoning plan with Frazee and detail the steps they discussed. Kenney told him that Frazee had a kind of power over her to get her to do things she did not want to do.

Stiegerwald had her note that when she went to Berreth’s townhome with the coffee – the first meeting between Kenney and Berreth – she could have instead drove two more miles to the police department, called 911 or left town instead. Did Frazee have power over her to go to Berreth’s instead of doing those other things, he asked. Kenney replied, “Yes.”

She explained that she wanted to give the coffee to Berreth to get "the measure" of her.

Kenney reiterated that she gave Berreth a fake name during the meeting and lied to Berreth about the purpose of the meeting and Stiegerwald continued to ask her why she told no one about the plan – including her aunt who was inside the car during her meeting with Berreth – on the 12-hour drive back to Idaho or once she had arrived home.”

Frazee trial: Defense asks why Kenney didn't alert authorities

ETA:
Definition of HAVE/TAKE/GET SOMEONE'S MEASURE
: to have or get a good understanding about what is needed to defeat or deal with (someone one is competing against)

 

[GordianKnot]

We absolutely do. I looked for some, and their all crap. We’re going to have to make up our own word. @GordianKnot is great at that!...

"Gobsmacker!"

"Piledriver!"

"Cannonball!"

"Gumclapper!"

"FlashBang"

"HUH-lo!"

"MayDay!"

 

[Medstudies]

@scdiv did a paraphrased transcript in multiple posts of Sam last night THANKS!, and these are the questions and answers that he had at the end. PART ONE OF TWO, I'll be back with second half in a bit. Sam Kraemer TV

Was KK's car that she drove to ID checked by cadaver dogs
Not covered yet if they have

Have they tested the tooth.
Early on, they made out that it was pivotal, but then downplayed.

How many exhibits do they have
Close to 670

When did Joe Moore call police
After call in February he called PF's atty (a poster reminded him he also called police, and Sam said he was working off others notes)

How did PF get KB's body out of condo
Prosecution says in the black tote and his truck

Is there a list of witnesses published
No, there is a gag order so all we can glean is listening to them in court

What do you think about the defense, are they being lazy
I always think they have something up their sleeve. They are being direct at what they cast doubt on. e.g. AS (defense atty) was extremely direct in his hour of cross of KK that she testified to that she didn't bring up on Dec 20 & 21st, that she didn't tell family and friends what was going on

Was excercise ball burned
I'm not sure. KK deflated and put in trash, so assume, but nothing heard verbatim

Any timestamp of KB entering after Safeway with poinsettia
He'll dig into notes later, not sure

Was tote big enough to fit body
He thinks yes, you could fit 5'3" 100 lb KB in tote

Why were bodily fluids on hay if body was in tote
He hasn't seen result yet, but thinks the idea would be that she was bloody and some of that blood seeped out

What about the missing bullet
Megan told police it was missing, but hasn't been brought up in court yet

KB have a garage
No

Was there any discussion that KK was awake for 48 hours
No, many things re adrenaline, and little nap at PF's

Do you know if they found a picture of KB that he said he had (re liquor/baby car)
Don't think we know that yet

Did KK through keys in Gorge
No, I don't think so, I'll have to look. She burned some evidence. She pinged phone near the Gorge.

What are your thoughts on not making KK an alternate suspect and only making holes in her testimony
He talked to lawyers about this. They chose general denial defense vs. alternate suspect defense. Reason to do that as it gives more options for the defense. With an alternate suspect defense, you are saying you have proof that the other person did it, vs. PF not being guilty. You have a lot more to work with and a lot more options. With general denial, they are going after her credibility and her story with holes. From a lawyers point of view, that's the smarter play as you aren't narrowing your options, you are expanding them. You are keeping as wide as you can.

Thank you for posting this!


RBBM
MOO: it didn’t need to seep out of the tote.

I think it is likely that while he was maneuvering her remains into the tote, some fluids leaked/dripped from her wounds onto the outside of the tote.

(for instance: Some of her long hair may have brushed the outside of the tote. Or a foot hanging out before he was able to close the tote. Or maybe he sat the tote down on some of the fluids.)

besides: we all know that he isn’t the smartest guy. And that he can’t be bothered to clean. So I’m willing to guess he wasn’t worried about bleaching down the tote before he put it on the hay to burn it...

 

[Niner]

Tuesday, November 12th:
*Trial continues (Day 8) (@ 8:30am MT) - CO – Kelsey Berreth (29) (last seen Nov. 22, 2018, Woodland Park; phone pinged 800 miles away in Gooding, Idaho on 11/25/18 @ 5:13pm, reported missing Dec. 2, 2018; not found) – *Patrick Michael Frazee (32) “fiancé” arrested (12/21/18), charged (12/31/18) & arraigned (4/8/19) with 2 counts 1st degree murder (to align with the prosecution’s theories on how he did it), 3 counts of solicitation to commit 1st degree murder, 1st degree felony murder (death during attempted robbery) and charged (4/5/19) with 2 counts of crime of violence (sentence enhancer). Plead not guilty. Held without bond. DA will not seek DP.
Trial began on Monday, 10/28 with jury selection, trial started on 11/1. Trial is expected to last 3 weeks (thru 11/18/19). Jurors: 7 women & 5 men; alternates: 2 women & 2 men.
See post #1274 here for 10/28/19 thru 11/7/19 court trial information:
Still Missing - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #61
11/8/19 Day 7: State witnesses: Julie Nash (owns Nash Ranch). Elizabeth Police Dept. K9 Officer Frank Hurst (Bloodhound Radar at Nash Ranch). Video shown of Bloodhound Radar detecting human decomposition scent at Patrick Frazee’s barn. Dog sat on discolored hay stack 15 feet tall). K9 Office Brian Eberle (Lucy at Kelsey's apt). Abbey Abbondandolo (works for St. Luke's Health System as Senior Director of Security Dept. at Idaho Hospital). Sydney Kenney (Father of KK). Woodland Park Sonic Drive In manager. For the rest of the morning focused on surveillance camera footage from 2 locations: a Sonic Drive-In in Woodland Park & a Conoco gas station in Florissant, showing the movements of Frazee & Kenney the day of Nov. 24, 2018. FBI Special Agent Donald Peterson (Team leader of search team: helped search the alleged burn site on Frazee property). FBI Special Agent Stephanie Benitiz (was involved in the Dec. 14 & 15 searches of Frazee’s home). Joseph Moore (longtime friend of Frazee’s). Trial continues on Tuesday, 11/12.
*Child: Review hearing on 12/5/19.
*Krystal Jean Lee (Kenney) – Plea deal-plead guilty to 1 count of tampering with physical evidence, a class 6 felony, with an open sentence. Will testify at Frazee’s trial. Review hearing on 12/2. That will NOT be a sentencing date. Assuming the trial is complete, she will report to probation on that day with sentencing scheduled for 8 weeks after that. Judge Sells says if the trial is delayed, he plans to just delay that review hearing as needed.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Sam Kraemer TV
I feel asleep right before it came on. Checking to see if this works ...
Ok, had to adjust something. It seems to working on my device now. Busy, so I'm gonna have to postpone setting it.
I think I'll read the highlights others posted for now.

 

[Lhughessk]

Yes, And I'm sure Kelsey's Daughter, Mother, Father, and Brother, will be forever grateful to kk for her role in this case. /s
That might be 'most important' to you, but it wouldn't be to me, if it were my child. That ship has sailed.

I think it’s what’s most important to a whole lot of people. There’s nothing more important than bringing to justice the man who took a bat to the face of Kelsey and then incinerated her like she was a cow that had died. KK’s involvement wasn’t necessary for him to kill KB, but it was necessary in order to make him pay.

 

[susiQ]

- Moore.. dec 20 conversation.. PF couldn't understand why there is such a big deal over this... PF said, "Man, if I had known it would have blown up this big, I never would have..." didn't finish the sentence.
- Hay was more expensive than the tractor.
- Date of recorded phone call was February 2019
- Moore excused, not released

Okay, that concludes Sam recapping testimony. Please note that I wrote quickly what he was saying or slightly paraphrased typing fast, so feel free to check the video and verify/note anything I missed. I went in order so shouldn't be too hard to find. Okay, back to football with one minute left.

Many thanks for taking these amazing notes! Couldn't keep my eyes open past the first 5 min., so I really appreciate this!!

 

[Gardener1850]

There are plenty of cases where the defendant was found GUILTY, even when the murder weapon was not found. Not every killer is stupid enough to leave the weapon lying around.

The forensic evidence includes blood on the sofa cushions, fireplace and under the floorboards. How do you explain that if there was no violence at the scene?

Exactly. They don't need to prove what the murder weapon was due to the overwhelming other evidence of KB's violent death in the condo. It's enough that they can prove she died there and narrow down the window of her death to a period of time when PF was shown to be there with her. That said, I would not be surprised at all if they also have some evidence of the murder weapon. KK testified that PF asked her if there were marks on the floor from the bat hitting it. KK told him she didn't see any. But I have a feeling there might have been some bat marks there that could have been noticed by the crime scene techs when they pulled up the floorboards to get a closer look at the blood that had seeped through. There is a reason that KK testified about PF asking her to check the floor for marks. I don't think that was merely for shock value. MOO.

 

[susiQ]

We all know kk was just his best friend, Cheer leader, Crime scene cleaner, Babysitter, baby aborter, ranch hand, side piece, and definitely...
"The one that got away"!

Yup! That pretty much sums up KK, "a few head short of a herd."

 

[GordianKnot]

Day 7 of the Trial

Roll Call!

Who's Here for Kelsey?

 

[GordianKnot]

Go Get Him, Dan!

You go get this evil monster.