CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #64

[gitana1]

Ok. Thank you. Lots of people get convicted on circumstantial evidence then. Because few have an eyewitness.

Well you know a lot of cases actually do have eyewitnesses. But they either plea out or the trial doesn’t garner much attention because everyone is just going through the motions as they know who did it.

Sadly, many killers kill right out in the open in front of people- neighbors, family, friends.

 

[gitana1]

Scott had a guilty demeanor from the start. Finding his wife and son exactly where he said he went fishing did him in.

For me, and JMO, Patrick Frazee is a horrible human being. I would vote guilty.

He did. But this case has vastly more evidence than that one. That’s my legal opinion.

 

[MemPat]

Particularly when the dog that hit had never made a mistake, IIRC.

JMVHO.

Exactly!
I edited to add your valuable contribution!

 

[Love Never Fails]

Yes. Most people are confused about what it means so don’t worry.

Circumstantial evidence is any evidence that needs and explanation or another bit of evidence to explain how it supports a conclusion.

Direct evidence doesn’t.

A witness statement - “I heard Bob hell at Larry, ‘I’ve been waiting for weeks for this moment! I hate you and I’m going to kill you!’ I then saw Bob point his gun at Larry and fire. Larry dropped to the ground. I checked Larry’s pulse. It wasn’t there.” Thats direct evidence. No inference or additional evidence is really needed to determine Bob murdered Larry.

A dead body needs an inference. Or additional testimony/evidence. The dead body isn’t direct evidence that the person it belonged to was murdered nor by who.

Same with DNA. You need an expert to explain what it means. And then you need an inference to determine how it connects to proving someone killed someone.

Thank you so much for the explanation. Helps me understand so much more.

 

[gitana1]

Yes, they do fight fiercely! I worked in child support for years, handling the welfare cases. When I first started working for our county, I became so sick, I had no clue of all the things that actually happened here! It's an ugly world out there.

Edited to add: I worked there when I had to read each case on paper, page by page to catch all entries of change of the support order, who was the custodian etc. So I got the scoop on each case.

Ugh. It’s rough!

 

[Love Never Fails]

Well you know a lot of cases actually do have eyewitnesses. But they either plea out or the trial doesn’t garner much attention because everyone is just going through the motions as they know who did it.

Sadly, many killers kill right out in the open in front of people- neighbors, family, friends.

Yeah, true. I didn’t even think of the ones who plea. I don’t get why PF didn’t ask for some kind of plea in the beginning.

 

[Artis]

Well this will be interesting - how will the company handle the pay-out? Listed beneficiaries on life insurance policies are very difficult to overturn - wonder what has become of this?

If the beneficiary is convicted of murder and behind bars (as he will be, forever), I would think the Berreth's should confiscating those funds for Baby K in their civil suit.

 

[makayla]

Yeah, true. I didn’t even think of the ones who plea. I don’t get why PF didn’t ask for some kind of plea in the beginning.

PF is arrogant and delusional and was hoping to pin the murder on KK, in his own warped and stupid mind. JMHO

 

[MsBetsy]

Yeah, true. I didn’t even think of the ones who plea. I don’t get why PF didn’t ask for some kind of plea in the beginning.

Stubbornness and arrogance, maybe?

 

[MemPat]

Jinx!

You taught us well!

 

[lindaromas]

I want to put my thank you's to everyone on this page! This is the first case I've followed on WS! I don't know what pulled me to this case but here I am living in Ohio and following every day. I've had my hands smacked a time or two and was put in time out. I got mad when that happened, and didn't reply for a long time. I still don't know what I did!

That timeline was amazing! Not sure where I'm going after this is over.

Daily prayers to the Berreth family. My heart hurts for them. I'm raising a grand daughter also, she's 12 now and it's tough, but we will get through this. Prayers for everyone. Through your life journey always put GOD first, family second and everything else will fall in place. Love and peace to you all!

 

[scdiv]

I always worry that with every new case the next murderer is learning things.

Me too, but then again, it often seems we aren't dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed. No criminal masterminds with these dimwits. And so many of them also seem to have this overwhelming arrogance that they already think they know everything and are invincible. No how to murder personal development needed for them!

That said, I do know just what you mean and a smart criminal probably would learn from other crimes.

I did wonder if PF picked up from the Chris Watts situation also in Colorado to at least not give any stupid front porch interviews asking for help to find his missing fiance. But he didn't do himself any favors either by not even pretending to show any concern or interest. Scott Peterson and Chris Watts tried to at least (badly) mimic acting like worried husbands. This one didn't even bother to fake any charm.

 

[lindaromas]

Me too, but then again, it often seems we aren't dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed. No criminal masterminds with these dimwits. And so many of them also seem to have this overwhelming arrogance that they already think they know everything and are invincible. No how to murder personal development needed for them!

That said, I do know just want you mean and a smart criminal probably would learn from other crimes.

I did wonder if PF picked up from the Chris Watts situation also in Colorado to at least not give any stupid front porch interviews asking for help to find his missing fiance. But he didn't do himself any favors either by not even pretending to show any concern or interest. Scott Peterson and Chris Watts tried to at least (badly) mimic acting like worried husbands. This one didn't even bother to fake any charm.

Probably because he knew he was caught since his plan to pin KK to the crime just blew up in his face. He looked guilty from day one to me!

 

[MemPat]

Yeah, true. I didn’t even think of the ones who plea. I don’t get why PF didn’t ask for some kind of plea in the beginning.

Maybe he just doesn't want to go home to Mama?

Her complaints about the prostitutes surely got on his last nerve.

Add in those pesky escaping cows and Patrick is all,

"No plea for me; I'll just stick with my 3 hots and a cot."

 

[jakat]

Ha! That’s right!

I forgot about those measurements.

Love your avatar! I'm sitting at my desk giggling! What's more, you're a very smart person. Intelligent!

 

[Sweetsbeach]

Yes. Most people are confused about what it means so don’t worry.

Circumstantial evidence is any evidence that needs an explanation or another bit of evidence to explain how it supports a conclusion.

Direct evidence doesn’t.

A witness statement - “I heard Bob yell at Larry, ‘I’ve been waiting for weeks for this moment! I hate you and I’m going to kill you!’ I then saw Bob point his gun at Larry and fire. Larry dropped to the ground. I checked Larry’s pulse. It wasn’t there.” Thats direct evidence. No inference or additional evidence is really needed to determine Bob murdered Larry.

A dead body needs an inference. Or additional testimony/evidence. The dead body isn’t direct evidence that the person it belonged to was murdered nor by who.

Same with DNA. You need an expert to explain what it means. And then you need an inference to determine how it connects to proving someone killed someone.

I always enjoy reading your posts. Just sayin.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

The mineral deficiency was stated by CB on day 1 of the trial. KB would have been the one who told her that. So KB is feeling fatigue and anxiety and possibly other symptoms, so she goes to this clinic. They diagnose a mineral deficiency complicated by stress from work. So she comes back home with a plan to treat the mineral problem with homeopathy and to treat the anxiety by reducing her hours at work. That is what I think happened.

I really think the stress was from another source.
MOO

 

[MemPat]

Me too, but then again, it often seems we aren't dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed. No criminal masterminds with these dimwits. And so many of them also seem to have this overwhelming arrogance that they already think they know everything and are invincible. No how to murder personal development needed for them!

That said, I do know just want you mean and a smart criminal probably would learn from other crimes.

I did wonder if PF picked up from the Chris Watts situation also in Colorado to at least not give any stupid front porch interviews asking for help to find his missing fiance. But he didn't do himself any favors either by not even pretending to show any concern or interest. Scott Peterson and Chris Watts tried to at least (badly) mimic acting like worried husbands. This one didn't even bother to fake any charm.

I always like to celebrate a clever turn of phrase.
I loved, "No how to murder personal development needed for them!"

 

[Evilactionfigure]

I am not an attorney. This is my own opinion. This trial is a slam dunk that shatters the backboard.
It is this simple.
There has been nothing, absolutely nothing thus far to support PF did not kill KB. At all. Zero.

There has however been everything under the sun that supports that not only did PF kill KB, no one else but PF could have possibly killed her.

 

[Artis]

True. Having no consequences helps create that for sure.
Also a profiler, John Kelly,* on YouTube says that a lot of murderers have no (or little) connection to the parent of the same gender.
*I can't confirm Mr Kelly's credentials. Sorry.

BBM

Very interesting and I believe it. I've read that over 90% of males in prison were raised by single mothers.