CO - Mass shooting at King Soopers, 10 fatalities including 1 LEO, Boulder, 22 Mar 2021 *arrest*

[coffeeandacig]

My thought also. He was there, something set him off and he got his gun and started firing. Just speculation. I am very interested in hearing his motives for doing what he did.

Didn't the press state that items of his included a green tactical vest? If so, wouldn't that suggest he got dressed specifically for this?

 

[GatorFL]

Didn't the press state that items of his included a green tactical vest? If so, wouldn't that suggest he got dressed specifically for this?

I'm just speculating of course. Lots of people have vests and guns.

 

[coffeeandacig]

I had forgotten about the Garland shooter

FBI Agent Goaded Garland Shooter to “Tear Up Texas,” Raising New Alarms About Bureau’s Methods



I hope that's not what happened in Boulder.

Oh I hope not. It seems a reprehensible idea that the FBI is actually using a method that goads and prods someone into a killing spree.

 

[mickey2942]

Suspect in Boulder mass shooting that killed 10 people bought assault rifle 6 days earlier, according to affidavit

I am interested in this article, the family said that he had "mental health problems". What else did his family know? What is a family responsibility for a family member who has a weapon, and has mental illness?

 

[CocoChanel]

MORE about the VICTIMS....they MATTERED....

Boulder Victims: A Police Officer, Grocery Workers, the Son of Refugees

 

[MsBetsy]

Perhaps keep a better eye on said people, especially in instances where they have ties to extremist groups. In the Parkland case, maybe actually act on the two tips they received instead of ignoring them.

How many citizens that have ties to extremist groups are being monitored? It may not be that easy to persuade a judge to authorize the use of wire taps and other types of surveillance. Were they monitoring his SM?

I don't know how the FBI differentiates between casual connections and true warning signs for extremist activity. Until we have more details I don't think we can assume the FBI knew this guy was a threat or ignored any tips or could have prevented such a tragedy. Imo

 

[Seattle1]

Lauren Scharf@LaurenScharfTV

Many people thanked Cellist Louis Saxton for providing beautiful music outside the fence at #KingSoopers #BoulderStrong
@FOX21News
4:38 PM · Mar 23, 2021 from King Soopers

Replying to
@LaurenScharfTV
I was told he was inside the King Soopers seconds before the shooting happened. He returned today to play a few songs at the entrance. #BoulderStrong
@FOX21News

4:46 PM · Mar 23, 2021 from Boulder, CO·

Video of Cellist at tweet

The picture so reminded me of Little Drummer Boy...

[..] I have no gift to bring
Pa rum pum pum pum
That's fit to give our king
Pa rum pum pum pum,
Rum pum pum pum,
Rum pum pum pum
Shall I play for you
Pa rum pum pum pum
Pa rum pum pum
Pum pum pum pum
Mary nodded
Pa rum pum pum pum
The ox and lamb kept time
Pa rum pum pum pum
I played my drum for him
Pa rum pum pum pum
I played my best for him
Pa rum pum pum pum,
Rum pum pum pum,
Rum pum pum pum
Then he smiled at me
Pa rum pum pum pum
Me and my drum
Come they told me
Pa rum pum pum pum
A new born king to see
Pa rum pum pum pum
Me and my drum
Me and my drum
Me and my drum
Me and my drum
Rum pum pum pum

 

[CocoChanel]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExMqja8VkAQe2g2?format=jpg&name=large

 

[NoSI]

I did a presentation on Colorado mental health law a few months ago and thought i share some of it as i think it pertains.

The truth is even if we place an individual on a hold, we may not find placement aka a bed in a mental health treatment facility. The hold eventually expires or is dropped and they are released. Bed availability is a HUGE barrier in Colorado. The average lengths of stay if a bed is availability is 3 - 5 days.

This is based on my experience only. The below was taken from the State of Colorado website (Colorado's involuntary mental health treatment system explained | Colorado Department of Human Services)

Colorado Mental Health Law - System of care and treatment for mental health is established in Colorado statute (Title 27, Article 65, C.R.S., commonly referred to as "27-65"), and further defined in OBH rule (Volume 2 CCR 502-1).

Colorado Law Requires - When any person appears to have a mental illness and, as a result of such mental illness, appears to be an imminent danger to others or to self or appears to be gravely disabled, an intervening professional upon probable cause and with such assistance as may be required, may take the person into custody, or cause the person to be taken into custody.


Why do we need § 27-65-105?
- Civil commitment= severe infringement of public rights/freedoms
* Such restriction of liberties requires due process of law.
- 27-65 sets out procedural safeguards
* Maintain a person’s dignity and integrity;
* Be provided in a restrictive setting only when less restrictive setting are unavailable and when safety is endangered;
* Protect people’s privacy, dignity, and other rights;
* Encourage the use of voluntary services;
* Inform and encourage family involvement when appropriate; and,
* Facilitate the recovery and resiliency of each person


Some Important Definitions
- “Imminent” is key - Applies to the proximity in time of the dangerousness. More specifically, the term “imminent” applies to a determination of whether the danger to others or himself or herself is current; it does not apply to how soon in time a specific dangerous act may be undertaken.
- Danger to Self – The individual poses a substantial risk of physical harm to self as manifested by evidence of recent threats of or attempts at suicide or serious bodily harm to self.
- Danger to Others – With respect to other persons, that the individual poses a substantial risk of physical harm to another person or persons, as manifested by evidence of recent homicidal or other violent behavior by the person in question, or by evidence that others are placed in reasonable fear of violent behavior and serious physical harm to them, as evidenced by a recent overt act, attempt, or threat to do serious physical harm by the person in question.
- Gravely Disabled – A condition in which a person, as a result of a mental health disorder, is incapable of making informed decisions about or providing for his or her essential needs without significant supervision and assistance from other people. As a result of being incapable of making these informed decisions, a person who is gravely disabled is at risk of substantial bodily harm, dangerous worsening of any concomitant serious physical illness, significant psychiatric deterioration, or mismanagement of his or her essential needs that could result in substantial bodily harm. A person of any age may be “gravely disabled”, but such term does not include a person whose decision-making capabilities are limited solely by his or her developmental disability.

Who can initiate a 72-hour mental health hold?
- A Certified peace officer.
- A Physician or Licensed Psychologist with a license in the state of Colorado.
- An APRN with psychiatric/mental health training.
- A Licensed marriage and family therapist, licensed professional counselor, or licensed addiction counselor who by reason of postgraduate education and additional preparation has gained knowledge, judgment, and skill in psychiatric or clinical mental health therapy, forensic psychotherapy, or the evaluation of mental disorders.
- A Licensed clinical social worker

Advisement of Rights
- The patient must be advised of the decision to place a mental health hold.
- Documentation of same must be entered into the medical record demonstrating that this was performed.
- Further, if the “professional” believes that the person is mentally ill and, as a result, is an imminent danger to self or others, or gravely disabled, …documentation produced in the case must state facts sufficient to establish the above conclutions.
- After seizure of the person for an M-1 hold – the 72 hour evaluate and treat program must begin as soon as possible after he or she is admitted.

What happens when the 72-hour hold expires
- Released if no longer found to meet certification criteria.
- Referred for further care and treatment on a voluntary basis.
- Certified for treatment pursuant to § 27-65-107 (short-term certification).

What is Certification?
- Short Term Certification (STC)
* § 27-65-107
* Done by petitioning the court.
* A person may be certified for not more than 3 months for short-term treatment if the person is found to have a mental health disorder and meets certification criteria and has not accepted voluntary treatment.
* A certification for short-term treatment may be extended once for a period not to exceed 3 months if the professional person in charge of the treatment believes that a period longer than three months is necessary for treatment of the person and the condition for short-term certification continue to be met (Extended certification).
- Long Term Certification (LTC)
* § 27-65-109
* Done by petitioning the court.
* Can file long-term certification for short-term certifications lasting more than 5 months.
* May order long-term care for up to 6 months.
* 27-65-109(3): Respondent may request a jury trial, which is to be held within 10 days.
* 27-65-109(5): If extension of LTC is sought, it must be done within 30 days of the expiration of the original order.
* If no hearing is requested, the court may proceed ex parte.
* Each extension shall be for no longer than 6 months.

 

[JoeFromLB]

What we might see is a long, long process of testing and evaluations to determine competency, etc. before a trial ever happens.

jmo

If this were California, he wouldn't come to trial for at least 3 years, and more like 5-7 with all the motions, hearings, etc. that tie up the court.
The justice system here is a sick joke. We've got a D.A. here in Los Angeles who loves to release violent criminals. How he got elected is anyone's guess. There's already a growing movement to recall him.

 

[cujenn81]

Boulder shooting suspect: Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa charged with 10 counts of first-degree murder

The 21-year-old Arvada man arrested in Monday’s mass shooting at a Boulder King Sooper’s was violent, short-tempered and paranoid during high school, his former classmates said Tuesday.

“He was kind of scary to be around,” said Dayton Marvel, a teammate on the wrestling team. Alissa once had an outburst and threatened to kill people during an intra-team match, Marvel said.

He said he did not like spending time with Alissa, and Alissa was not close with anyone on the wrestling team. Another teammate, Angel Hernandez, said Alissa got into a fight in the parking lot after the match. “(The other wrestler) was just teasing him and goes, ‘Maybe if you were a better wrestler, you would have won.’ (Alissa) just lost it. He started punching him,” Hernandez said.

Hernandez said Alissa frequently appeared to be paranoid about perceived slights against him, and Marvel said Alissa was often concerned about being targeted because of his Muslim faith.

“He would talk about him being Muslim and how if anybody tried anything, he would file a hate crime and say they were making it up,” Marvel said. “It was a crazy deal. I just know he was a pretty cool kid until something made him mad, and then whatever made him mad, he went over the edge — way too far.”

“He was always talking about (how) people were looking at him and there was no one ever where he was pointing people out,” Hernandez said. “We always thought he was messing around with us or something.”

BBM.

Dylan Klebold also did this — I actually just listened to his mom’s book on audio a few weeks ago. She said the family stopped at a McDonald’s on the way home from visiting the college he “planned to attend” (clearly, he never had any such plan), but DK became so paranoid that some kids were laughing at him that his family had to leave. She said the kids were on the opposite side of the restaurant and hadn’t once looked in their direction.

 

[lonetraveler]

I'm just not seeing that as an indication of his mental state. If he took of his clothes on his own volition, that shows a muddled mind, imo. If he followed orders to take off his clothes, that just shows he could follow orders, after being shot. I honestly don't think there was much thinking ahead on his part at that point, but I appreciate the discussion and the idea to think about.

jmo

Perhaps to ensure that he did not have other weapons or even a bomb strapped to his chest, he was ordered to remove his clothes.

 

[cujenn81]

I was wondering if ethnic taunts were involved. These kinds of shooters seem to always have some kind of general grievance. Perhaps something similar happened to him at King Soopers.

Agreed. Injustice collectors are usually to blame. The highly esteemed FBI profiler Mary Ellen O’Toole also agrees.

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/vio.2014.1509

 

[Cryptic]

I was wondering if ethnic taunts were involved. These kinds of shooters seem to always have some kind of general grievance. Perhaps something similar happened to him at King Soopers.

Is there direct evidence that he was every bullied?

Though being a wrestling athlete does not preclude bullying, wrestling ability and his aggressive personality would seem to..... deter it.

 

[cujenn81]

I felt compelled to mention that the large majority of people suffering from mental illness are not a danger to others. Those that are dangerous usually have a history of violence and/or frequently display bouts of extreme anger. I think it’s important to speak about mental illness in such a way that we don’t perpetuate the stigma surrounding it.

 

[Inthedetails]

I felt compelled to mention that the large majority of people suffering from mental illness are not a danger to others. Those that are dangerous usually have a history of violence and/or frequently display bouts of extreme anger. I think it’s important to speak about mental illness in such a way that we don’t perpetuate the stigma surrounding it.

Point well taken. Thanks for reminding us.

jmo

 

[303gmf]

I'm just speculating of course. Lots of people have vests and guns.

Typically not for heading out to the grocery store though
Wallet and my list is what I take in with me

 

[MurderMittens]

10 people dead, including police officer, after shooting at Colorado grocery store

Anything to do with vaccinations I wonder?

Another man told NBC affiliate KUSA that his granddaughters had gone with their father to the store to get vaccinated for Covid-19 when the shooting occurred. He said they hid inside a coat closet for an hour until authorities entered through the roof and rescued them.“This is heartbreaking,” he said.

W0uld not doubt it.

Boulder shooting: Gunman kills 10, including police officer, at King Soopers

The workers and shoppers who survived the violent scene in the Front Range college town fled the store any way they could — if they couldn’t, they took shelter inside — as the shots echoed.

“It seemed like all of us had imagined we’d be in a situation like this at some point in our lives,” 57-year-old James Bentz said.​

Because we all have imagined it. Or at least my family have. We have an active shooter plan. We teach our kids to hide. It's america. THIS is what America is.

I just heard. Terrible, tragic, hits too close to home ... I have shopped at that store multiple times. RIP to all the victims. My thoughts are with them, the families, the first responders, and everyone touched by this tragedy. Hard to believe ... Another mass shooting in Colorado.

I feel awful for saying it but what is it with CO and Death? SM,SW,Columbine,Aurora,This, SEVERAl others.

I feel so sorry for CO. So many mass shootings seem to happen there. And it’s such a beautiful state.


Why are there so many impotent, unstable men in our country who feel the need to vent their feelings of entitlement, rage and inadequacy by murdering innocent people?

Is this a result of our attitudes about masculinity and a national glorification of violence?

Toxic Masculinity causing emotional damage..

Portrait of a hero.....Officer Eric Talley

Hero cop killed by Boulder mass shooter identified as Eric Talley

Absolutely Agonizing.This man should not be where he is right now. He should be in his warm home...With his family... Heartbroken..

This garbage has to stop. Sorry, I don't have any advice on how to do it.

Me either. I genuinely worry that if we take guns people will start attacking everyone with machetes. Nightmare fuel either direction. Horrific.

Whenever the BBC, which does news programs on one of my local PBS stations, talked about the New Zealand mosque shooter, that's exactly how they referred to him, and when they showed him, all you could see was a fuzzy oval with an orange blob in it.

When CNN and MSNBC went to wall-to-wall coverage, I knew this would be bad, and honestly, I expected it to be much, much worse than it was.

I really hope they dont give this (*Spicy* Words) a name. He lost his worth to me when he killed 10 people.

That witness account broke me. He looks so much like my dad and it just hurt my soul. This is so Wrong. Why is this still happening?

How many million Americans are known by the FBI?

This. To be fair im probably known somehow or nother. I Google some WEIRD things and talk about weird things too. if the FBI is watching im on the list. Does it make me a danger? Not at all.

Is there direct evidence that he was every bullied?

Though being a wrestling athlete does not preclude bullying, wrestling ability and his aggressive personality would seem to..... deter it.

I mean. If i where the type to get smart and *Spicy* Towards people....Id definately leave the wrestler with A mood issue Alone... But then again that's just me? Maybe we can err on the side of assuming he was not bullied based off of the info we have (And knowledge that the one person who bullied him he whooped.)

I felt compelled to mention that the large majority of people suffering from mental illness are not a danger to others. Those that are dangerous usually have a history of violence and/or frequently display bouts of extreme anger. I think it’s important to speak about mental illness in such a way that we don’t perpetuate the stigma surrounding it.

This. So much this.

Typically not for heading out to the grocery store though
Wallet and my list is what I take in with me

I mean, You also dont go to the grocery store for some...Uh... People Poaching??? Really cant come up with a good explanation for this total *Spicy word* Show.



I think that covers it.

If i can pry myself away I do believe i will be taking a hiatus again. This affected my mental health pretty badly, Though, I'll probably be back sooner than later because I fixate and try to find answers until it eats me alive.

 

[Satchie]

Dylan Klebold also did this — I actually just listened to his mom’s book on audio a few weeks ago. She said the family stopped at a McDonald’s on the way home from visiting the college he “planned to attend” (clearly, he never had any such plan), but DK became so paranoid that some kids were laughing at him that his family had to leave. She said the kids were on the opposite side of the restaurant and hadn’t once looked in their direction.

This is interesting, thanks.

Particularly revealing is that he assumed other people were really interested in him (but in a negative way). At root, it was a belief that he was always the centre of attention, rather than invisible/ignored/of no interest to strangers.

And, IMO, surely that's the purpose of a mass shooting: to become the centre of attention, to be on TV, famous, a powerful, important, person, instead of the ordinary uninteresting person you've been all your life. After all, it worked for all the other mass shooters the shooter has seen on TV, and decided to emulate.

"The forensic research literature has found that a sizeable percentage of those who commit mass shootings have been studying, following and identifying with past shooters, he said"
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia-shootings-psychiatrists-motive-1.5540911

"

 

[Betty P]

Didn't the press state that items of his included a green tactical vest? If so, wouldn't that suggest he got dressed specifically for this?

Yes, it sounds like premeditation. Seems there were a few things he did that indicate planning.