CO CO - Maurice Dametz, 84, Pike National Forest/Devil's Head, 29 Apr 1981

[PalmerLakeAnon]

Do you think you could get a good group of volunteer searchers?

The area has already received lots of snow. Until the weather improves and the snow melts, I cannot do any searching.

 

[heartgoesout]

Wow! I don’t even want to think about snow yet!

 

[PalmerLakeAnon]

I checked the long-term weather for the area. Looks like another storm is coming through tonight, but the next couple weeks look mostly sunny with highs in the high 40s, so it should be enough to melt most of the snow by the time I return. Whether or not the forest roads are drive-able due to mud, I don't really know...

 

[heartgoesout]

I checked the long-term weather for the area. Looks like another storm is coming through tonight, but the next couple weeks look mostly sunny with highs in the high 40s, so it should be enough to melt most of the snow by the time I return. Whether or not the forest roads are drive-able due to mud, I don't really know...

Wish I lived close to help in your effort. Other than that snow and all. lol

 

[PalmerLakeAnon]

It is interesting how life just happens... but maybe it is better after all to look back on this case with some fresh eyes:

I noticed a minor detail from the Paulides video that I missed previously: he mentions that Dametz & McSherry travelled 16 miles down Rampart Range road to Topaz Point. However, after looking at the maps, Topaz Point is more like 11 miles; 5 miles is a long way to be off. Now I do not know where Paulides got this information (as every other source for this case didn't specify a location), but I will just take his word for it.

But something else I noticed: traveling south on RRR, Topaz Point is the last marked picnic area along this route. While there are certainly other pull-offs further down, these do not have official names. Maybe McSherry, when reporting Dametz's PLS, remembered the Topaz Point sign they passed on their way, and seeing no other sign with a place name further down, the thought remained in the back of his mind, "We are near Topaz Point," as this would be the last piece of locational information his mind collected. Thus, he and law enforcement may refer to the general area as "Topaz Point," whether it is at the picnic area itself or another 5 miles down.

This sort of recollection happens all the time. Growing up (and in the SAR for my brother), we referred to the general area as "Mount Herman," despite most of our personal destinations being no where near Mount Herman proper. Most people, however, will only know an area based on the nearest recognizable landmark, and I wonder if this custom, unfortunately, botched the search for Dametz.

I had previously wondered that Dametz had somehow become confused and disoriented in the forest as McSherry went back to the car, and that as a result, Dametz wandered off aimlessly. However, what if instead: McSherry got disoriented; forgot where Dametz was; panicked; sped away in the car to get law enforcement; and returned with LE to the wrong area to search. After all, if all McSherry knew about the their location was "somewhere near Topaz Point," how many stretches of road, pull-offs, rock outcrops, etc. look almost identical to their actual location? Having been throughout the Rampart Range myself, this is very easy to do.

In summary: McSherry forgot where Dametz was, assumed Dametz was lost, took law enforcement to the wrong area, and left Dametz out in the woods.

Now did McSherry leave the area in the car to get law enforcement? As this was before cellphones, I don't really see a scenario where McSherry stayed exactly where he was before LE showed up, otherwise how could he get a hold of LE? So based on this theory, I made a new search area map. Really anywhere along RRR between Topaz Point and about 16 miles (up to 17 is highlighted on the map) down the road (from the start of RRR) is fair game; about 300 yards down the west side of the road; with an emphasis put around that 16-mile marker. The map can probably be refined even more, but this is good for now.

As for the initial search area around Topaz Point proper: I have gridded it thoroughly, and he is certainly not there.

 

[PalmerLakeAnon]

Geez, primary sources on this case are extremely hard to come by, particularly regarding the PLS information. So for now, I will have to rely solely on the Paulides video:

I searched parts of the "16-mile" area last weekend all to no avail. Aside from an abandoned quartz quarry in the search area, I found nothing; not even those common rock hunter dig pits. So consider my theory from the previous post obsolete for now (can't entirely rule it out based on how limited our other options are, though).

Let me also clarify: when I say I thoroughly gridded the Topaz Point area, please refer to the old map from 2019 I posted here a long time ago. I have searched most of that drainage, in which I had initially assumed Dametz was rock hunting as a result of the impressions from the Paulides video. However, one more detail stood out to me...

The area is currently called "Topaz Point Picnic Area," but in 1981, it was called the "Virgin Baths Overlook" as stated in the Paulides video. However, the Virgin Baths Overlook is actually located about 200 yards down Rampart Range Road from the present-day Topaz Point. Paulides mentions in the video that Dametz and McSherry came to "Virgin Baths... aka Topaz Point," but perhaps this seemingly minor detail may make a significant difference to the search area...

After checking out my most recent theory, I returned to Topaz Point because it just felt more correct. While I was there, I explored this ridge from the Virgin Baths overlook, on which there were many dig sites. I am not implying that Dametz dug one of these here present today, but considering the frequency of the pits, I believe it is a likely area that Dametz and McSherry could have been hunting in on that April day. Additionally, the ridge slopes downwards gently, far more easy on an old man with bad knees than in all of my previous search areas. The ridge is in excess of 200-300 yards, thus matching the description that they were about 300 yards from Rampart Range Road.

A correction from my previous point: it seems (based on all the sources I could get my hands on) that McSherry remained in the same area before flagging down a motorist, thus the initial search area was not lost on McSherry. Again, however, I keep an open mind to all possible scenarios here.

So with this search area in mind, I have determined a general PLS (cyan). I have omitted from this search area the places I have already searched, as well as the dirt bike trail that runs through. In this case, we have to think of ALL possible scenarios which would involve Dametz simply getting up with his tools and walking off, how ever ridiculous they may sound. I may address the theology of the "taken up into heaven like Enoch" theory put forth by the family (as mentioned in the newspaper clippings I posted here a while ago), but otherwise, let's leave out supernatural or paranormal possibilities entirely. Maybe Dametz went down the hill a ways to relieve himself, slipped somewhere, took a hard fall and was knocked out? Sometimes accidents do happen and lead to very bizarre situations. In any case, I have wondered from the start of following this case if he somehow ended up down in one of these drainages somehow, and thus, has eluded searchers for so long. After all, who would expect an old man in poor health to venture that far from his original location?

 

[RickshawFan]

Btw, he was last seen wearing a white baseball cap, maroon plaid flannel long-sleeve, blue overalls, brown ankle-high boots, and glasses.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

This clothing would blend into the terrain.

 

[RickshawFan]

@PalmerLakeAnon

I LOVE your idea that McSherry was the one who got disoriented and not Dametz. Actually, both of them could have been. Unlike hiking where you're constantly taking a bearing on your whereabouts and looking at your surroundings, with rock hounding, you're looking at the ground. You could easily lose track of where you are.
The two rock-hounds may also have lost track of time.

I would guess Dametz wandered off a bit. At 81, his voice would have become thin, and he may have had difficulty shouting. I believe it's easy for dogs to not get a scent: we had this happen in the Paul Miller case in Joshua Tree. Air may have been moving up and down those gullies as the day wore on; that may affect scent, too?

IMO it's likely he'll never be found, unless maybe there's a fire in the area that denudes the landscape. I suppose someone could go into the potential areas with a metal detector to try and get a ping on the tools?

 

[wary]

@PalmerLakeAnon

I LOVE your idea that McSherry was the one who got disoriented and not Dametz. Actually, both of them could have been. Unlike hiking where you're constantly taking a bearing on your whereabouts and looking at your surroundings, with rock hounding, you're looking at the ground. You could easily lose track of where you are.
The two rock-hounds may also have lost track of time.

I would guess Dametz wandered off a bit. At 81, his voice would have become thin, and he may have had difficulty shouting. I believe it's easy for dogs to not get a scent: we had this happen in the Paul Miller case in Joshua Tree. Air may have been moving up and down those gullies as the day wore on; that may affect scent, too?

IMO it's likely he'll never be found, unless maybe there's a fire in the area that denudes the landscape. I suppose someone could go into the potential areas with a metal detector to try and get a ping on the tools?

Or found by some random hiker, the way Bill Ewasko was found.

 

[PalmerLakeAnon]

@PalmerLakeAnon

I LOVE your idea that McSherry was the one who got disoriented and not Dametz. Actually, both of them could have been. Unlike hiking where you're constantly taking a bearing on your whereabouts and looking at your surroundings, with rock hounding, you're looking at the ground. You could easily lose track of where you are.
The two rock-hounds may also have lost track of time.

I would guess Dametz wandered off a bit. At 81, his voice would have become thin, and he may have had difficulty shouting. I believe it's easy for dogs to not get a scent: we had this happen in the Paul Miller case in Joshua Tree. Air may have been moving up and down those gullies as the day wore on; that may affect scent, too?

IMO it's likely he'll never be found, unless maybe there's a fire in the area that denudes the landscape. I suppose someone could go into the potential areas with a metal detector to try and get a ping on the tools?

Right, during the SAR I was involved in, the dogs would get their occasional "hits" but could not follow them on any sort of track.

Regarding never finding him: I know this happened in 1981, so time is certainly not on our side, but bones, tools, and clothing do take a long time to decay. Also, having hiked around those hills for many years now, I have come across all sorts of artifacts that probably go as far back as the late 1800s, mainly rust metal cans. They are often embedded in the ground a little bit, but otherwise exposed enough to see clearly. There is often little to no duff covering them either.

Now imagine a skeleton, clothes, and bag of tools all in the same place (assuming no tampering). Certainly, the terrain of the area requires very thorough searching literally behind every rock and tree, but other than that, I think finding him is still possible... again, assuming the case narrative is accurate and that he was indeed in that area.

 

[PalmerLakeAnon]

Keeping the Facts Straight

In cases like this that lack an official, detailed description of events, we have to examine carefully what information is available and where exactly it came from. I do not know how credible David Paulides is, but I have to take some of his account with suspicion considering that it is the only detailed narrative of Dametz's disappearance I've found so far. In particular, let's talk about the tendency to exaggerate certain details.

The narrative has us believe that a frail old man in poor health who could barely walk was out in the wilderness digging for topaz for hours one day. Obviously, if the man was wheelchair-bound or was close to the point of absolute dysfunction, he would have no business taking a day trip into the woods to dig around for topaz. This tells me that Dametz's health condition has probably been exaggerated. I am sure Dametz was disabled to some degree, all 70+ year old men are due to age alone, but if he was so disabled to the point where walking by himself was almost impossible, there is no way he would be spending his past time doing something this active, let alone 300 yards down a slope from the car. Therefore, I would think that Dametz was capable of moving around on his own, just not to the extent that, say, a 50-year-old could. But, if I were there that day, I would still prefer to keep an eye on him just simply due to his old age. With all of this in mind, I can totally imagine an elderly man with his friend roaming a hillside one afternoon for a few hours hunting for rocks.

Paulides said they traveled 16 miles down Rampart Range Road to Topaz Point, but Topaz Point is 11 miles; he switched between calling Dametz's companion "McSherry" and "McSweeny;" he said they were working 50 yards away from Rampart Range Road, but the newspapers say it was more like 300 yards. Maybe Paulides had access to other sources, but until we can confirm that, I have to wonder what other details he got wrong? For example, he says they first worked on the east side of the road, took lunch, and then moved over to the west side... what if he got the sides of the road mixed up also?

Stepping back and looking at just the facts: Dametz and McSherry came to Topaz Point on April 29, 1981. They were hunting for topaz, when at one point, McSherry left Dametz alone for about 15 minutes, and Dametz was never seen again. His last known location was about 300 yards from the car, and no sign of him or his supplies turned up during the 5-day search.

 

[PalmerLakeAnon]

Conspiracy Theories

Forgive me if this next post sounds very cynical, but it is something I need to address.

Some people like to take cases like this and put a supernatural spin on them, as if we should believe that Dametz was literally there one minute and then literally NOT the next, like he vaporized or something. People don't just disappear like that. Much of the time, our friends who hold to such theories have never tried gridding a large area of forest before; so they become content with blaming bigfoot or UFOs when they stroll around a general area and call the who thing "searched." As I've said before, one has to look behind every rock and tree before declaring the area totally cleared. Referring to the newspapers from page 1: how can SAR thoroughly grid 5 square miles in only 5 days? They can't, at least not thoroughly enough. But for those who like to sensationalize these disappearances, they spin this as evidence for their conspiracy.

The very fact that my brother appeared in one of these missing-411-unsolved-mystery-type YouTube videos is case in point. There was nothing supernatural or mysterious about that case, it's just really really hard to find a body in a vast wilderness. But some people will jump to certain conclusions.

And as for these "clusters" of unsolved missing persons cases in the National Parks: First of all, many people don't even know the difference between a National Forest and a National Park, so they assume anywhere in the woods is a disappearance in a National Park. Then they mistakenly draw up a correlation between all of these disappearances because they all happened in a forest. You might as well say, "Wow, planet earth must be a mysterious place... look at all the people who disappear there!" Fact of the matter is that the wilderness is big, people go there, get in trouble, and, because of the extent of the wilderness, are never found. With the "strange patterns of disappearances in National Parks," guess what: many people like to go to national parks who have no experience in the woods, nor have any business being there. For example, why is Longs Peak the deadliest mountain in Colorado? Is it because many park visitors from all around the country try to hike it ill-prepared? Or is it because aliens and bigfoot live there?

Now its not that I don't believe in the existence of cryptids or things of that sort, but to spin missing persons cases as conspiracy theories shows a lack of understanding of the wilderness. I must also admit that some of these cases are truly bizarre; however, that does not mean every single unsolved wilderness disappearance is such a case. Searching for skeletal remains is hard. It is tedious. They are very easy to miss.

All that being said, I did some searching yesterday; covered an area of about 30 acres in a few hours. Here is my updated map: I also made some other modifications. I wish I took pictures now that I think about it, but I can say that it is very easy to get disoriented in there. I hiked down a ridge from the PLS marker there on the map and walked around an area with many dig sites. I constantly had to refer back to my GPS because I kept losing my sense of location in relation to the picnic area. This sort of visualization out in the field really helps to create the picture of that April day.

 

[Pennysmom1]

Cold Case Maurice Dametz - Douglas County Sheriff's Office

Maurice Dametz Missing Person Case Number : 1981-2331 On April 29, 1981, 75-year-old Maurice “Doc” Dametz was last seen rock hunting near Rampart Range Road in the Devil’s Hand area of the Pikes National Forest. If you have any information about this case or individual(s) Please let us know at…

dcsheriff.net

Case Number : 1981-2331​

On April 29, 1981, 75-year-old Maurice “Doc” Dametz was last seen rock hunting near Rampart Range Road in the Devil’s Hand area of the Pikes National Forest.