CO - Possible Serial Shooter Has Colorado Drivers on Edge #3

[FindHG]

[snipped]
Umm, wouldn't the fact that we have not heard of anymore PEOPLE being shot, or killed indicate deescalation? Do we really need LE to tell us that, or can we reach a fairly obvious conclusion for ourselves?
As for the shattered windows, if we are to believe there is not shooter involved then what are we left with? Weird, mutant, side flying, window seeking road debris? IF that was the cause, taking the highly traveled road into consideration,wouldn't we be seeing many more broken windows?

Agreed, SugarQueen, great points and Forager too, re the deescalation, thank you both.

I would posit this analogy: that to say other than what you both agree on, would be akin to arguing for spontaneous generation as opposed to evolution, that is if creationism doesn't explain things well enough.

Perfect timing in this area to get away, whatever set of incidents happen to be connected, they all would have that in common, up to now. So what factors would go into perfect timing?

 

[Montjoy]

Just to clarify -- there has been no statement about a deescalation because all of the LE resources do not think that there is any connection between the actual shooting events and the "shatterings". For what it's worth, LE would like to think there is a connection between all of these events, because it justifies more spending for those who investigate the supposed shootings. But they have not done so.

i wholeheartedly defend LE for their reluctance to feed the fire of the few people who want to instill fear in the public about a crazy shooter. The evidence does not support this explanation.

 

[Foxfire]

What I find unbelievable, with respect, is the idea that a serial shooter would use live ammo for 2 (perhaps 3) incidents, and then, after not being caught, deescalate. Would a terrorist, or a serial shooter, prospective serial killer, choose to do this? If the theory is that a shooter who has gone undetected and uncaught would decide to start to prefer shattering windows (say, using frangible ammo), is there any precedent for this? Does it make sense with all of the knowledge we have about serial shooters and serial killers? Does it make sense from a terrorist perspective?

I don't really see how it does. Perhaps LE are telling us the truth. Perhaps the total lack of evidence to suggest a shooter in all of the window shattering incidents means that there is not a shooter. Perhaps the fact that there are so many incidents at off-ramps and access roads has something to do with the fact that there is a greater chance of road debris hitting a window at those sites. Perhaps this has nothing to do with ISIS, or Islamic terrorism, or far-right terrorism (which is the greater risk, mind you).

Montjoy, the members on this thread have worked very hard in an effort to find answers. We are not here to cause controversy or make irrational political statements..

 

[SugarQueen]

They/ he/she knows the area, knows where exits are, knows the high traffic times, does shoot unless the exit looks clear. I'm not sure it would make a big difference if they got stuck in traffic. No one ( so far) has seen the road debris/ shooter that caused any of the broken windows. LE seems to be discounting the idea of a shooter causing the broken windows. That gives the road debris/ shooter a lot less to worry about. ( hope that makes sense. It's past my bedtime)

 

[FindHG]

They/ he/she knows the area, knows where exits are, knows the high traffic times, does shoot unless the exit looks clear. I'm not sure it would make a big difference if they got stuck in traffic. No one ( so far) has seen the road debris/ shooter that caused any of the broken windows. LE seems to be discounting the idea of a shooter causing the broken windows. That gives the road debris/ shooter a lot less to worry about. ( hope that makes sense. It's past my bedtime)

It makes sense, SugarQueen, lots of it, to me.

 

[Montjoy]

Montjoy, the members on this thread have worked very hard in an effort to find answers. We are not here to cause controversy or make irrational political statements..

Fox/WS/GA-- I'm glad that you mentioned this, because I have a lot of respect for all of the research in this thread. And I don't think that it was misguided politically.

Let me put it this way -- I have a deep respect for how much work was done here. But I don't think that the amount of work done means a theory is guaranteed to be true.

Solving crimes is not like milling grains or grinding sausage. You can't brute-force thing, you can't just gather a huge number of data points -- you need, at the least, to draw some connections between the details that make sense. Those connections have to withstand more sensible explanations. In this case, I think that the posters here have been guided more by fear than anything else.

LE does not believe that the window shatterings are related to the actual shootings. If they are correct, I can only see the attempts to connect the events as attempts to feed into terrorism. But perhaps I am wrong -- is there any forensic evidence to suggest that the shatterings are part of a greater terrorist play?

 

[FindHG]

Could it be that more than instilling fear, the intent and motivation is some thrill of showing everybody up in caginess?

If it were all debris, it would stand to reason that the incidents would happen only along patches with a lot of debris, in the same places and not spread out along the highway. The spread argues for perp/s who times it right and not debris.

 

[Montjoy]

Could it be that more than instilling fear the intent and motivation is the thrill of showing everybody up in caginess?
\ with a lot of debris, in the same places and not spread out along the highway. The spread argues for perp/s who times it right and not debris.

rsbm

Then why not use live ammo? And really, why not shoot to kill? Do you think that window shatterings are less terrifying than injuries or kills -- or for that matter, shots that miss but still leave ballistic evidence (like bullets lodged somewhere in a vehicle)?

If all of the "shatterings" are done by a serial shooter, why does s/he not use ordinary ammo, in which the terror element would be much higher? If motorists were to think that there was a shooter who always used frangible ammo rather than cheaper and more deadly normal ammo, would that not make driving less rather than more scary?

The terrorist angle does not make any sense.

 

[searchinGirl]

LE may not have the evidence to connect shatterings to shootings but I do not see how that establishes no connection conclusively...collecting evidence in these incidents has to be problematic at best...and by the time a driver has stopped, the evidence could be anywhere along the road within the last mile...I doubt LE is going to close a busy interstate to look especially when getting a windshield repaired is so routine and most often done without a police report...as far as escalation/de-escalation I have a couple of thoughts...the shooter could possibly think he is back in control of the situation by laying low...I mean, some are denying his existence are they not? or perhaps this could be a student returning to school from summer break?

 

[Foxfire]

Fox/WS/GA-- I'm glad that you mentioned this, because I have a lot of respect for all of the research in this thread. And I don't think that it was misguided politically.

Let me put it this way -- I have a deep respect for how much work was done here. But I don't think that the amount of work done means a theory is guaranteed to be true.

Solving crimes is not like milling grains or grinding sausage. You can't brute-force thing, you can't just gather a huge number of data points -- you need, at the least, to draw some connections between the details that make sense. Those connections have to withstand more sensible explanations. In this case, I think that the posters here have been guided more by fear than anything else.

LE does not believe that the window shatterings are related to the actual shootings. If they are correct, I can only see the attempts to connect the events as attempts to feed into terrorism. But perhaps I am wrong -- is there any forensic evidence to suggest that the shatterings are part of a greater terrorist play?

<BBM for Focus>

Simple inductive reasoning, Montjoy. True, there are no guarantees that any of our theories are the gospel, but based on common sense, past/present info/indicators and precedent such as the dc sniper, the kc sniper, tx sniper, etc. Combined with the NOCO sniper Task Force with multiple local, state, federal agencies, some mysteriously unnamed. The silence and misinfo by the task force PIO<The Letter and road debris explanation>imo. The shared geographical area of concern of both investigations. The lack of a victim profile combined with the preliminary psychological behavioral profile of the shooter are just a few of the indicators used to arrive at the conclusion that the noco shooter/s is also responsible for the I-25 car window shatterings, imo..

Montjoy, solving crimes may not be analogous to milling grains or grinding sausage, but I have found that you must first separate the wheat from the chaff..


Inductive reasoning is a logical process in which multiple premises, all believed true or found true most of the time, are combined to obtain a specific conclusion. Inductive reasoning is often used in applications that involve prediction, forecasting, or behavior.
http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/inductive-reasoning
____________________
<snipped & BBM>
Defendant is admonished for sharing highway shooting evidence with The Star

Mohammed Whitaker, the man accused of being the KC highway shooter who terrorized area motorists this spring, received an admonishment from a judge Wednesday for recently sharing a sliver of case discovery materials with the media.

&#8220;This is a really, really bad idea,&#8221; Jackson County Circuit Judge Robert M. Schieber told Whitaker while holding up a copy of a Kansas City Star article published Tuesday. &#8220;My job is to provide an even playing field. &#8230; I will not and cannot allow you or the state to try this case in the press.&#8221;

Schieber accused Whitaker of making it difficult for him to conduct a fair trial with an impartial jury. At one point, he pounded his fist on the bench and said Whitaker&#8217;s action &#8220;flies in the face of everything I am about.&#8221;

&#8220;Be mindful, be careful,&#8221; Schieber told Whitaker, 28, a former south Kansas City resident who moved to Grandview shortly before his April 17 arrest. &#8220;Don&#8217;t do it.&#8221;

Prosecutors have alleged that Whitaker committed 10 shootings, including two that wounded motorists, on area roadways in March and April. Most happened in the Three Trails Crossing area.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article788504.html#storylink=cpy

 

[margarita25]

Looking back, there's some crazy stuff in thread 1. I'm glad I / we documented this stuff!
Going back over old posts.

Thread 1:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...e-Serial-Shooter-Has-Colorado-Drivers-on-Edge

 

[Forager]

A follow-up article from Wednesday afternoon about the Sunday window shattering, by Katie de la Rosa in the Coloradoan:
Debris likely cause of shattered windshield on I-25

While the headline is saying "no, no, no", the story itself seems to be saying "yes, yes, yes" on some details of interest to us:

-- CPS backed away from initial indications that it was the windshield that broke. Road debris is much easier to buy as an explanation for windshields breaking. "Initially over the emergency radio, troopers reported that the woman's windshield had shattered. But Reed [the Colorado State Patrol spokesman] could not confirm whether it was a windshield or a side window."

-- The CPS spokesman providing the updated information, drew the conclusion that road debris was involved from the fact that "the responding trooper didn't file the incident report that CSP fills out if shattered windows are believed to have been shot out. Those reports are sent to the task force that was assembled to investigate the three unsolved shootings, two fatal, that occurred in Northern Colorado over the summer." A dedicated form for shot out windows?! The trooper responding to the Sunday incident may have had a good reason for concluding that road debris was involved in this one, but the Task Force seems to have good reason to believe that some windows are being shot out.

 

[margarita25]

A follow-up article from Wednesday afternoon about the Sunday window shattering, by Katie de la Rosa in the Coloradoan:
Debris likely cause of shattered windshield on I-25

While the headline is saying "no, no, no", the story itself seems to be saying "yes, yes, yes" on some details of interest to us:

-- CPS backed away from initial indications that it was the windshield that broke. Road debris is much easier to buy as an explanation for windshields breaking. "Initially over the emergency radio, troopers reported that the woman's windshield had shattered. But Reed [the Colorado State Patrol spokesman] could not confirm whether it was a windshield or a side window."

-- The CPS spokesman providing the updated information, drew the conclusion that road debris was involved from the fact that "the responding trooper didn't file the incident report that CSP fills out if shattered windows are believed to have been shot out. Those reports are sent to the task force that was assembled to investigate the three unsolved shootings, two fatal, that occurred in Northern Colorado over the summer." A dedicated form for shot out windows?! The trooper responding to the Sunday incident may have had a good reason for concluding that road debris was involved in this one, but the Task Force seems to have good reason to believe that some windows are being shot out.

From the above link:

"Colorado State Patrol handled the incident, but spokesman Trooper Nate Reed provided few details Wednesday evening. He said the responding trooper didn't file the incident report that CSP fills out if shattered windows are believed to have been shot out. Those reports are sent to the task force that was assembled to investigate the three unsolved shootings, two fatal, that occurred in Northern Colorado over the summer.

Because of that, Reed said road debris likely caused it to shatter.

Initially over the emergency radio, troopers reported that the woman's windshield had shattered. Bur Reed could not confirm whether it was a windshield or a side window.

The woman reportedly said she believed it was shot out, according to the scanner."

 

[margarita25]

BBM :

"Leland Sloan, a 59-year-old UPS driver from Parker, was driving a semitrailer northbound in the right lane of I-25 at Crossroads Boulevard when his driver-side window was broken at 9:19 a.m. He pulled over to the right and stopped his truck. Sloan was taken to a local hospital and treated for his injuries. According to radio scanner, he was later released."

http://www.coloradoan.com/story/new...-shattered-windshield-investigation/32435367/

So, the possible shooter would have been to the west facing east?

 

[margarita25]

(Note to self...look at spreadsheet for statistical directional synopsis' as listed in above post fftobed

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[Foxfire]

BBM :

"Leland Sloan, a 59-year-old UPS driver from Parker, was driving a semitrailer northbound in the right lane of I-25 at Crossroads Boulevard when his driver-side window was broken at 9:19 a.m. He pulled over to the right and stopped his truck. Sloan was taken to a local hospital and treated for his injuries. According to radio scanner, he was later released."

http://www.coloradoan.com/story/new...-shattered-windshield-investigation/32435367/

So, the possible shooter would have been to the west facing east?

margarita25[/B];12023301](Note to self...look at spreadsheet for statistical directional synopsis' as listed in above post fftobed

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Note to margarita25's other self; 'compare vehicle's location on I-25, direction of travel, driver's side or passenger's side window shatterings in relation to exit and access road locations.'

 

[katydid23]

Have you guys seen this already?

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...or-highways-in-southwestern-michigan/34945528


Shots reported along major highways in southwestern Michigan
The incidents occurred between July 29 and Aug. 21



TEKONSHA, Mich. -
Authorities in southwestern Michigan are investigating reports of shots being fired at cars on Interstate 94 and Interstate 69.

The Calhoun County sheriff's office says the damage is being blamed on "projectiles." But a closer look at some vehicles confirms that damage is related to gunshots.

The incidents occurred between July 29 and Aug. 21 in Calhoun and Branch counties. No injuries have been reported.

Officers from many agencies are working on the case. Anyone with information can call (269) 781-9700.

 

[PrairieWind]

It may be worth noting that the local universities are back in session. Perhaps someone was gone for the summer and has returned?

 

[margarita25]

Note to margarita25's other self; 'compare vehicle's location on I-25, direction of travel, driver's side or passenger's side window shatterings in relation to exit and access road locations.'

:biggrin:
Heehee, yes that too.

 

[Forager]

It may be worth noting that the local universities are back in session. Perhaps someone was gone for the summer and has returned?

A week ago, I would have said "Yes! That's got to be it", but since then, we've learned, from a Katie de la Rosa a story in the Coloradoan, that "The Larimer County Sheriff's Office said it has received reports of shattered windows on I-25 throughout the summer."