CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #10

[gitana1]

I'm perfectly capable of reading, thank you. I apologize that you don't like my choice of wording but that doesn't change the fact that everything we have to rely is what is being reported through the MSM. I have not personally sought out the indictment to read it for myself. Everything I am aware has been brought to my attention through either the news media or this site. Therefore, it is literally all considered to be heresay and until I can verify it for myself, will remain as such in my own eyes. This is all I have stated and all I will continue to state.

EVERYONE is entitled to a jury of their peers. No matter what we as individuals may believe. But there is no question that many have been vilified in the MSM just to be exonerated or at least "less vilified" when more facts are presented.

I don't know why I should have to blatantly state this but simply because my opinion opposes your own does not mean I personally oppose you. It appears you are passionate about this case but I always attempt to remove my emotions as they can lead to presumptions. Not saying you are doing this, just that I avoid it. You are obviously intelligent and aware of your facts. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me and I hope to learn more from you.

As an attorney I am well able to remove passion from a case when analyzing it. Which I have done. I am passionate, however, about justice and logic.

It isn't that I don't like the wording in your posts. It's just that the wording is wrong. That's no based on mere lay opinion. It's based on my expertise. There is plenty of actual evidence. Shall we go through it?

The term hearsay applies to what is admissible in a court of law. It doesn't have one thing to do with whether evidence exists or not.

Further, there is plenty of non-hearsay evidence in this case. But even if it was all inadmissible in a court of law, doesn't mean it isn't evidence.

The direct statements of witnesses to reporters, on camera, about what they saw about what they heard CW say, that's not hearsay if repeated from the witness stand in court. Because "admissions" (statements) by a defendant out of court, are not hearsay. And what she herself testifies to as to what she observes, is not hearsay.

Any statements by the decedent fall under hearsay exception in CO.

What the defendant himself said to the media and what he did or did not do, none of that is hearsay.

You know healthy debate and analysis of cases with various viewpoints is valuable. It's why I like this forum. I've learned a lot here. But I do not respect baseless allegations against victims or witnesses as I gave seen on this thread nor do I like posters being accused of being motivated by nothing more than emotion and failing to use logic and reasoning to come to conclusions, when there is ample actual evidence for them to come to the conclusions they have.

 

[MindHunter13]

Speaking of Scott Peterson, I'm curious to know what you think about Dale Yeager's comments. ?

Dale Yeager saw parallels between Chris Watts’ appeal prior to his arrest this week and the actions of Scott Peterson nearly two decades ago.

“That’s what is in my head. If they’re safe right now, they’re going to come back,” Watts said. “But if they’re not safe right now, that’s the not-knowing part. Last night I had every light in the house on, I was hoping that I would just get ran over by the kids just running in and barrel-rushing me, but it didn’t happen. And it was just a traumatic night trying to be here.”

“He has an incredibly large ego,” the analyst said. “He was very convincing in front of the camera, which means he really comes off as sociopathic. That doesn’t mean he is mentally ill, just that he has a personality defect.”

Chris Watts’ actions lead forensic analyst to call accused killer “Scott Peterson, just less charismatic”

Just based on that presented information, I would have to concur with the conclusion. While it is not an "end all - be all" for sociopathy, it sure is a heavy indicator. I find it interesting how he chose to use the term "traumatic" when describing his night. It was obviously very carefully chosen to illicit a pre-determined response. I highly doubt he received the response he desired however.

 

[DAdvocate]

Yes, the house sale, 401k, life insurance (eventually) and not wanting to pay child support. Also, I bet if she was "missing" for a while, he would have started a GoFundMe account.

So you risk years of child support by committing a sloppy murder and confess to at least one murder in the days after. Just don’t see he wanted the money as the motive.

 

[DAdvocate]

Speaking of Scott Peterson, I'm curious to know what you think about Dale Yeager's comments. ?

Dale Yeager saw parallels between Chris Watts’ appeal prior to his arrest this week and the actions of Scott Peterson nearly two decades ago.

“That’s what is in my head. If they’re safe right now, they’re going to come back,” Watts said. “But if they’re not safe right now, that’s the not-knowing part. Last night I had every light in the house on, I was hoping that I would just get ran over by the kids just running in and barrel-rushing me, but it didn’t happen. And it was just a traumatic night trying to be here.”

“He has an incredibly large ego,” the analyst said. “He was very convincing in front of the camera, which means he really comes off as sociopathic. That doesn’t mean he is mentally ill, just that he has a personality defect.”

Chris Watts’ actions lead forensic analyst to call accused killer “Scott Peterson, just less charismatic”

Well most people don’t believe he was convincing.

 

[Nessa131]

The money from the sale of their house and assets that he had talked about a day and a half after they just disappeared.

Also no child support for 3 kids..... jmo

Edited to add- also is colorado a alimony state?

 

[MindHunter13]

As an attorney I am well able to remove passion from a case when analyzing it. Which I have done. I am passionate, however, about justice and logic.

It isn't that I don't like the wording in your posts. It's just that the wording is wrong. That's no based on mere lay opinion. It's based on my expertise. There is plenty of actual evidence. Shall we go through it?

The term hearsay applies to what is admissible in a court of law. It doesn't have one thing to do with whether evidence exists or not.

Further, there is plenty of non-hearsay evidence in this case. But even if it was all inadmissible in a court of law, doesn't mean it isn't evidence.

The direct statements of witnesses to reporters, on camera, about what they saw about what they heard CW say, that's not hearsay if repeated from the witness stand in court. Because "admissions" (statements) by a defendant out of court, are not hearsay. And what she herself testifies to as to what she observes, is not hearsay.

Any statements by the decedent fall under hearsay exception in CO.

What the defendant himself said to the media and what he did or did not do, none of that is hearsay.

You know healthy debate and analysis of cases with various viewpoints is valuable. It's why I like this forum. I've learned a lot here. But I do not respect baseless allegations against victims or witnesses as I gave seen on this thread nor do I like posters being accused of being motivated by nothing more than emotion and failing to use logic and reasoning to come to conclusions, when there is ample actual evidence for them to come to the conclusions they have.

Your eloquence and command of the English language is awe-inspiring. While we may be have opposing views here and there on this case, I look forward to the day that we are both on the same side of the argument. I can already see the fireworks. Thank you for taking the time to respond so graciously. I aspire to do the same in my future postings.

 

[CFlo]

I keep thinking about that $1500 HOA lawsuit. People using it as evidence that they were financially in trouble.

Sheriff delivered a summons to our house last week for an $800 bill. We're going to court over it. It isn't that we can't pay it, it's that legally we (and our attorney) don't believe we should have to. We've been fighting it for a year now.

I've been with everyone else about the HOA. I just got to thinking about it today

I’ve been opposite of what I’ve mostly seen here re this suit simply because from the get go I remembered going through a HOA suit for lawn fines at a House I built in Jacksonville FL. 5 months after move in, we were done $5k for lawn replacement.
The fact we got a shoddy lawn from the builder immediate upon key receipt and closing, which was well documented (HOA was even cc:d). It was thrown out AND the HOA had to then pay our legal fees.
So could be similar to both our experiences unless someone has already seen a detailed breakdown of the suit? I keep seeing dues but not sure if that’s been proven.

 

[MerryB]

I'm not sure I understand your second question. Do you mean CW had to sell the house and that is the reason he killed them?

I apologize, I did not word that well.
Yes, what I was wondering is: what if on top of the financial stress, there was also the pressure to keep up appearances? If they were about to lose the house, how would they explain that? Did C.W. feel like he could stage things to not only look sympathetic to him (poor guy was abandoned by his family), but also “save face” (he had to sell the house, the memories were just overwhelming, he couldn’t stand to be all alone in that big house)?

 

[PommyMommy]

However if they were a loving couple like the verified poster said and it appears on SM, HOW, HOW can he have just become so cold and calculating? This is what I can’t understand

BBM Everything is not always as it appears.

Police: No domestic violence calls at home before 3 deaths
He told MLive.com that his department had never responded to a domestic violence situation at the family's home.

"They were very active in the community, real good people," the chief said. "I think that's probably what makes it so surprising."

Bob Bonini owned a carpet- and tile-cleaning company in the village north of Detroit, and he and his wife were prominent members of the community, according to MLive.com. The wife worked at the village's only library, and their daughter — their only child — attended Saginaw Valley State University.

Owens, the village's chief for the past 10 years, told MLive.com that the shootings were the first deaths from violence in Sebewaing in nearly four decades.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

It has been stated, the girls were in the oil tanks for 4 days.
I wonder, if he had already placed them, into the tanks, before SW came home.
Two trips to hide all deceased.
CCTV, that Police may have, would show 2 trips.

I think it's a good possibility they were already in the tank. I do believe he killed them before SW.

I think LE charged him the way they did because they have strong evidence his confession is a bunch of you know what.

Moo

 

[ketel0ne]

So many questions....

Did he have a mental illness/breakdown
Did she?
We’re they using drugs?
We’re they swingers?
We’re they broke?
When did the affair start?
We’re they really happy before this or the six week trip?

I don't agree with many of your posts but I have similar questions to this list.

 

[CFlo]

Plus keep the friends, gain sympathy, be on tv...

Moo

And also IMO to add he wanted to keep the AP too, hence him stating more than once (iirc) that HE initiated the request for separation. That stood out to me as it was important for him to get that out there (my assumption knowing the AP would see the interviews).

 

[Hazelnutty]

Until we live with a person day in and day out we never really know what goes on inside that home.

But I think we're going to find out more about Chris Watts and what may have made him kill his children and wife. It can't be good.

IMO

 

[NuttMegg]

This case is sad enough but it's even sadder because I can see it's going to be another Jodi Arias blame the victim case. That poor woman's reputation is going to be dragged through the mud. I find it sickening and I'm not sure I will even be able to follow this case.

Iggy button

 

[gitana1]

However if they were a loving couple like the verified poster said and it appears on SM, HOW, HOW can he have just become so cold and calculating? This is what I can’t understand

Sociopaths can appear extraordinarily charming and real. (Psychopaths, not so much. At least not for long periods. They have dead shark eyes and cause many people to have the hairs on the back of their heads raise).

An example is a sociopathic opposing party I have on a case. He is violent, narcissistic and selfish and neglects his daughter. He had her sleeping on a pallet in a closet while he takes a king size bed. He drags her from woman to woman, leaving her in the care of women he just met, and having her sleep on a couch or on the floor or in the bed with him and his new broad. The child becomes attached to these women who provide all her care until they disappear. He fails to ensure the child gets to school on time, (even the first day of kindergarten) or completes her homework. She has to adapt to his life. There are no play dates, or birthday parties or child-related activities while she is with him. It's all about his desire to drink and be with women.

But he has a warm, crinkly-eyed and sincere-looking smile. he is able to pretend he's father of the year. He seems loving. Comes to school events. Puts sun block on her. But when no one is looking, he walks in front of her, off the sidewalk, in the drop off to school, not holding her hand, or seeming remotely concerned that she could be hit by a car. he leaves the bulk of the care to his girlfriends. He consistently gives up visitation for "work trips" which are really personal vacations.

An example that more people can really connect with is scott peterson. His nickname was The Golden Boy. He was absolutely beloved. Not one person knew what he was truly like until it was too late. He had literally dozens of people testifying on his behalf during the sentencing phase. A truly nice guy who helped others.

These people know what others want to hear and how to be charming. they can keep up the veneer for decades even. But no one knows what's really going on in their minds, and what dark thoughts they're having.

It is super hard to understand which is why it's so frightening and fascinating to me. No one wants to think they could be sleeping next to the enemy.

 

[MerryB]

I’ve been opposite of what I’ve mostly seen here re this suit simply because from the get go I remembered going through a HOA suit for lawn fines at a House I built in Jacksonville FL. 5 months after move in, we were done $5k for lawn replacement.
The fact we got a shoddy lawn from the builder immediate upon key receipt and closing, which was well documented (HOA was even cc:d). It was thrown out AND the HOA had to then pay our legal fees.
So could be similar to both our experiences unless someone has already seen a detailed breakdown of the suit? I keep seeing dues but not sure if that’s been proven.

Court records indicate it is not a fine but a suit for unpaid dues.
Link: Financial issues plagued Chris and Shanann Watts 3 years before alleged killings

Link:
Colorado Judicial Branch - Court Docket Search

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

And also IMO to add he wanted to keep the AP too, hence him stating more than once (iirc) that HE initiated the request for separation. That stood out to me as it was important for him to get that out there (my assumption knowing the AP would see the interviews).

Yes. I think it also helped tell his tale .... she took the kids and left me for asking for a separation. Poor CW.

Moo

 

[DAdvocate]

Until we live with a person day in and day out we never really know what goes on inside that home.

But I think we're going to find out more about Chris Watts and what may have made him kill his children and wife. It can't be good.

IMO

If this is the case, wouldn’t that also make SW a liar? Lying to her friends, family, SM world?

 

[PommyMommy]

Just based on that presented information, I would have to concur with the conclusion. While it is not an "end all - be all" for sociopathy, it sure is a heavy indicator. I find it interesting how he chose to use the term "traumatic" when describing his night. It was obviously very carefully chosen to illicit a pre-determined response. I highly doubt he received the response he desired however.

Thank you. Have you viewed the actual interviews and/or formed any conclusions about his body language?

If you have not, and are interested, I'll be glad to link them for you.

 

[CFlo]

Court records indicate it is not a fine but a suit for unpaid dues. I will edit to add the link ASAP.

Ahhhh! I stand corrected then, thanks so much, I missed that!

Well, then not paying that amount is just silliness to me.