CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #11

[Herat]

How on earth is she living with herself, if that’s the case. I couldn’.

This is one of the things we likely won't know until Nov 18.

I have to think she is his 5th victim.

Not giving her a pass, but IMHO, she wasn't responsible for what he did and she is cooperating to the fullest extent possible with LE.

 

[Waterdog]

Right. Which is exactly the point. How abnormal people might act if they have crossed the lines of human decency and committed crimes, as opposed to how normal, innocent people behave, that is what jurors are allowed to consider when using common sense to analyze the evidence and determine whether there exists not doubt, but "reasonable" doubt.

Right, and the prosecution will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he DID kill his daughters and that him killing SW was premeditated.
This is where there’s fear of a hung jury - that one person who relies to heavily on their own thoughts and feelings and not facts. Idek. There’s too much stacked against him though, imo. Justice will prevail. That’s my *feeling* on it.

 

[Starkville]

I’m kind of amazed he didn’t blame in on the side piece!

There’s still time...

And unless the side piece was very proactive about getting legal representation and establishing her alibi immediately, she’s in the defense’s crosshairs.

Reasonable doubt, indeed.

 

[Waterdog]

For many, even subconsciously, attractive men are not heinous and if it's proven they are, their heinousness must've been provoked by abuse, or something somebody (i.e. wife, girlfriend, someone) did.

The Matthew Hoffman case is the one that brought me to Websleuths and I lost count on how many times his perceived attractiveness made people "surprised" at his guilt. There were theories that he must've been abused, or whatever. Even when an ex surfaced and there was proven history of DV with him.

I've seen the same with women suspects too.... like attractive people are incapable of crime. Like every murderer/monster should look the part.

So many people are bamboozled by beauty. It’s annoying! “She may be a , but she’s so beautiful!” Think of all the good looking felons who become instafamous after their mugshots are released. “He should be a model when he gets out!” Ugh.

 

[BingoBongo]

Like some, I suspect Watts killed the girls before his wife returned. Unlike most, however, I don't think he planned to kill them. I suspect he lost his temper with one daughter and fatally injured her, and when the second daughter was incosolable he killed her in a panic.
In contrast, I think he planned to kill Shannan the moment she walked through the door (and she quite possibly never knew her girls were dead as a result) because he knows she wouldn't have forgiven him or believed any story he could possibly come up with to explain why her girls were dead/not there.

I tend to agree with this. My bet would be that he'd been "simmering/seething" for a while, not happy with his life, his kids, his wife, their finances, etc...and not sure what would happen with the AP once SW found out and put her foot down about it.

I am guessing he lost it, and hurt one of the girls enough to end her sweet life (maybe not intending to kill her, but the end result was such), then panicked and thought he had to end the other's life so she couldn't talk. Then while waiting for SW to come home, simmered some more, blaming SW for all their troubles, and thinking that if it wasn't for her, the girls would still be alive, then deciding he'd kill her too, partially in anger, partially in blame, partially as a cover up by blaming her.

He is a mess, a psychotic, murdering mess. I hope he gets the death penalty.

 

[DAdvocate]

Without going into analyzing, every interview of him seemed...off...to me. His words didn't seem "normal" for a person who's immediate family was missing, and potentially in danger. His demeanor didn't fit. His mannerisms didn't fit.

Nothing fit what a normal personal would expect to witness from a person who is concerned about their missing loved ones.

Made the hair on the back of my neck stand up, which is EXACTLY how I felt when listening to a narcissist/sociopath lie.

Just because he isn’t a normal person doesn’t mean he killed his whole family.

 

[passionflower]

Did anyone find out anything about CW? Childhood? Teenager? Relationships? Anger? College? Any background at all? Big or little family? Golden boy? Anything?¿

 

[Ronso]

So many people are bamboozled by beauty. It’s annoying! “She may be a *****, but she’s so beautiful!” Think of all the good looking felons who become instafamous after their mugshots are released. “He should be a model when he gets out!” Ugh.

Yup. My ex narc friend treated my friend he was dating like total crap, but dammit if she didn't have women on her Facebook like, "Giiiiirrrrrl, get it!" every single time they got back together. Who cares how attractive he is? He's literal trash. Ugh. So frustrating.

 

[gitana1]

The state has the evidence which will be provided to his lawyers during the discovery process. There's tons of evidence that we just are not privy to at the moment.

I could easily find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt with only what we know right now. The kids went in the house with CW alive. SW went in the house alive. All three came out dead and were taken out and disposed of by CW.
He admitted to strangling SW. He states the girls died of strangling. His story is beyond the bounds of reason considering human nature.
He had means, motive and opportunity.
All his behavior afterward indicates consciousness of guilt.

There is a ton of evidence we already know of which includes LACK of evidence. No 911 calls. No screaming anguish. No crying. No displays of grief. No signs of sleeplessness. No signs of psychotic break, psychosis or otherwise. Etc. Etc.

For me it's overwhelming.

 

[DAdvocate]

As of right now I don't believe there is any evidence out there that shows who killed the kids. We know CW has been charged, however there is no evidence either way. You are all speculating right now.

Agreed!!!

 

[Herat]

THIS!!! So much this, it's why i was so insistent on the shirt thing. If my family was missing I can hardly believe if a reporter interrupted our interview to ask about a shirt my reaction would be so... I questioned myself if I wouldn't have gotten nasty with them because I think I would have if I was distraught. But he was proud to show it off! His whole demeanor changed, "yeah, I'm tired of talking about this missing persons stuff"WHAT???

And I firmly believe that reporter did it deliberately because he felt CW was "off: too.

 

[gitana1]

There is plenty of circumstantial evidence.
He's the only one who could lead LE to the bodies.
He admitted he placed them in the oil tank.
He killed their mother.
He hid all 3 bodies.
He didn't call for help.
He lied repeatedly for days.

If his story is believable (my wife was murdering my children so I killed her and hid all 3 bodies) why has something like this never happened before? When there is a natural reaction to an experience, you hear the same experiences repeated over and over. Name a case where a murderer was caught in the act by someone and that person killed the murderer and disposed of both bodies.

I should've read your post before posting myself!

 

[searchinGirl]

There’s still time...

And unless the side piece was very proactive about getting legal representation and establishing her alibi immediately, she’s in the defense’s crosshairs.

Reasonable doubt, indeed.

Somebody got Eikelenboom involved rather quickly. He’s the DNA scientist conducting research for the defense. Former DA Mitch Morrissey hates him. Had him discredited for not being accredited in the US; but I suspect he is now. I think think the AP sidepiece May have a lot of education without a lot of common sense.

 

[Layla123]

Just because he isn’t a normal person doesn’t mean he killed his whole family.

Even if your theory is correct, then C.W. is an accomplice to the murder of his 2 children for not calling for medical assistance after they were strangled. They may well have still been alive and survived with proper medical care in a timely manner.

 

[Waterdog]

I don't think it shows he hated them. Just that he doesn't have normal human emotion associated with them because his disposal is in no way associated with any burial rites or the psychological need of a parent to commemorate their children or lay them to rest with respect and love.

You pose an intriguing possibility but I'm not really feeling it. Even though that was his job. I mean what if his job was sewer maintenance or garbage man. Or waste treatment. If he worked one of those jobs and disposed of his precious children's bodies in a dump or sewer or sewage waste containment pond or whatever, would it be less psychologically abhorrent because he worked there? IMO, not really.

Rites and attitudes surrounding the death of children are very psychological and meaningful.

I think he simply did what he felt was expedient and could help him hide what he did. He didn't care about them so he didn't have any nostalgia surrounding their disposal.

Maybe not so much why he put them there, but how he might have felt and justified it in his mind after the fact.
*Edit for rephrasing.

 

[Jennifer17]

Just because he isn’t a normal person doesn’t mean he killed his whole family.

Did you believe him when said he didn't know where his family was?
Did you believe him when he lied about having an affair?
Why do you believe him now?

 

[BingoBongo]

Just because he isn’t a normal person doesn’t mean he killed his whole family.

If I were a betting woman, I'd put big money on the the outcome that he did (although that would be incredibly disrespectful and I am not disrespectful of the deceased). IMO, he isn't normal. Not only is he not normal, he is probably diagnose-able as NPD, with a little sociopath and psychopathy thrown in. All sociopaths are not psychopaths, but all psychopaths are sociopaths. If you are, truly a forensic psychologist, I would suspect you agree with at least some of that. We know that people who exhibit psychopathy are more prone to abhorrent acts than those that are not. He has admitted to killing his wife, and based on the facts as we now know them, in addition to the charges filed, I am pretty sure he also killed his girls.

 

[Waterdog]

THIS!!! So much this, it's why i was so insistent on the shirt thing. If my family was missing I can hardly believe if a reporter interrupted our interview to ask about a shirt my reaction would be so... I questioned myself if I wouldn't have gotten nasty with them because I think I would have if I was distraught. But he was proud to show it off! His whole demeanor changed, "yeah, I'm tired of talking about this missing persons stuff"WHAT???

What a clever and experienced reporter!

 

[BelleIsle]

I'm just going to put his out there. You walk in on someone strangling anyone else, is your first reaction to also strangle the strangler? Or, to grab a heavy object and hit them on the head? Or, to punch them in the head. Or, to grab them by the hair and pull them out of the way and administer CPR on the person being strangled? There is so much ridiculousness to CW's story I can't even handle it.

 

[BingoBongo]

Did you believe him when said he didn't know where his family was?
Did you believe him when he lied about having an affair?
Why do you believe him now?

Exactly!